Saab India Chairman offers Gripen E over MMRCA deal to India

[Basel]

You know about our dream AMCA , twin engine ..
Stealth plane with less surface control need thrust vector engine to be more manoeuvrable
Single engine thrust vector is even more complex

Single engine TVC is complex, Yes, but India have very good relations with US now and you can ask them to provide tech of MATV tested and perfected on F-16s (Vista) while it can also have characteristics of LOAN too, so not big issue.

MATV Warfighter Technology -- Multi-axis thrust vectoring
.
F-16 Versions - F-16 LOAN

 

[Basel]

Saab asked for 51% share in mk2 LCA , which itself is totally unacceptable..
Lastly Saab also don't have their own engine and radar..

It is not necessary that they will ask the same although in 5th gen they will have upper hand due to axis n expertise in the tech, but investing in JV of 5th gen single engine jet which you get to build is totally different ball game.

this thread might help to know about SAAB's 5th gen idea.

Swedish Stealth fighter concept FS 2020

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Brazil has signed the contract for 36 x Gripen E/F:

Saab and Brazil sign contract for Gripen NG


Interesting that the costs are higher than initially estimated, with $5.3 billion dollar, the unit system-cost is now up to $147 million each Gripen.

"Saab and COMAER have signed a contract for the development and production of 36 Gripen NG fighter aircraft, plus related systems and equipment. The programme comprises 28 single-seat and eight two-seat Gripen NG. The total order value is approximately SEK 39.3 billion." (1$ = 6-7 SEK)

What "related systems and equipment" means is unclear at the moment.
I assume this figure includes a maintenance contract, and maybe a lease of a number
of Gripen C/D until the Gripen E/F are delivered starting 2019.

one needs 3 conditions to make a competitive engine:

1. complete industrial value chain, and a globally competitive one as well.
2. huge amount of inventment across board.
3. sustaining this size of investment for a long time- about decades.

only 3 countries had/have above conditions and could do it after WW2: Britain (had), USA, and Soviet Union.

I think Rolls-Royce in U.K. know a thing or two about Jet Engines, but they are probably
focusing more on commercial aeroplanes.

 

[Speeder 2]

I think Rolls-Royce in U.K. know a thing or two about Jet Engines, but they are probably
focusing more on commercial aeroplanes.

RR is 1 of a few big names in engine biz.

What I meant was, unlike USA and Soviet/Russia, Britain had full industrial value chain till the 80's even earlier 90's ( that's one of the main reasons why she could make engines like RR, from research, design to production).

However, today's Britain doesn't have full industrial value chain any more - that's why were Britain to start engine biz fresh today, she would had been incapable of making things like RR on its own.

Engine biz is in essence the biz of industrialisation - it basically showcases the depth and width of industrial capabilities of a country across the full spectrum.

 

[sancho]

I assume this figure includes a maintenance contract, and maybe a lease of a number
of Gripen C/D until the Gripen E/F are delivered starting 2019.

So far I couldn't find any reports about the lease, but that the first 21 x Gripen E's will be produced in Sweden and assembled in Brazil. Wonder if the cost increase is based on higher demands by Saab (after Swiss loss) or changes in the customizations of Brazil? Will be interesting to follow that.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

So far I couldn't find any reports about the lease, but that the first 21 x Gripen E's will be produced in Sweden and assembled in Brazil. Wonder if the cost increase is based on higher demands by Saab (after Swiss loss) or changes in the customizations of Brazil? Will be interesting to follow that.

The information I get here is that at least 15 will be assembled in Brazil.
Unless this changes, this means that 21 will be assembled in Sweden.

There are negotiations in progress on the lease, with a deal expected before the end of the year.

Före köpet: Brasilien hyr Gripen - NyTeknik

The number of aircraft they want has not been made official.
If this deal has not been completed, then I do not see why it would be part of the 40 B SEK contract.

Apparently there are also discussions about Sweden buying Embraer KC-390 to replace the aging C-130s.

 

[sancho]

The information I get here is that at least 15 will be assembled in Brazil.
Unless this changes, this means that 21 will be assembled in Sweden.

The 21 will be produced in Sweden and send to Brazil in parts for the final assembly on their line, which later will produce the rest on their own.

The number of aircraft they want has not been made official.
If this deal has not been completed, then I do not see why it would be part of the 40 B SEK contract.

Apparently there are also discussions about Sweden buying Embraer KC-390 to replace the aging C-130s.

True, so the cost of the Gripen seems to have risen, but we don't know why yet. The KC390 buy back was considered earlier, France had offered the same, not sure if they still intend to, but I wouldn't be surprised. The KC390 seems to have good potential on the export market.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The 21 will be produced in Sweden and send to Brazil in parts for the final assembly on their line, which later will produce the rest on their own.

Sources?

That is not what is reported here.
As I said, only 15 guaranteed to be assembled in Brazil, but the number *may* be higher.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Option or Opportunity or Right for the People of Pakistan to Live under Imran Khan’s Leadership

Normally Bangladeshi writers do not write anything of Pakistan-pro, because Bangladesh-Pakistan relationship is a very controversial issue. But as a writer I have wish to write when I found a concept of writing. I have been connected to the Dawn through facebook and sometimes I get opportunity to read the news paper online version, when I logged in facebook. I found Dawn is an International Standard news paper and source.

I also write column for Modern Ghana since 2009. When I started writing here, after few days later they assigned me as Operations Manager and South Asian Representative. I felt proud of their honor and value added to me that inspired me to continue write into there – indeed in future.

Anyway, I am not famed and wise experienced writer or a responsive journalist. But also I write sometimes whatever I found to write.

I have liked to write something about a world’s famous and great cricket celebrity Imran Khan. According to my prediction, I would write about his leadership for Pakistan.

After retirement from cricket, Imran Khan delivered his aim to become a great leader for his nation – Pakistan. It was not easy to rose in such power, popularity, and famous in the political platform.

I found, Many a people may said, his existing popularity in cricket background made his path easy, to become a cultivated politician.

It resembles the cited as Mayor in the story of Pied Piper of Hamelin; Then the Mayor said, “If the River of Weser could not remain so near of the Hamelin city, how you would solve the problem?”

I have to give another example that Nobel Laureate Dr. Muhammad Yunus also tried to become a politician in Bangladesh after he won the Nobel Peace Prize. But very effetely he failed and people did not accept him, though Bangladesh’s political flow is something different then India and Pakistan.

Imran Khan formed his political part namely Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf. Then quickly he was able to come in front of leadership and gather lot of people in his campaigns. Very quickly Pakistan and world’s media received it positively that he arrive to focus.

It is not the crated by third parties but he have been showing his qualification and continue straggling to build a better Pakistan and so he have to rise in government formation power, either he become a President or Prime Minister.

Pakistan has to uncover practice of real democracy in the form of capitalism, federalism, communism or any other form they also may newly develop as the Russia delivered communism after a democracy form released in the United States.

But why Pakistan would pursue to Imran Khan’s leadership? Whenever, Mamnoon Hussain, Mian Nawaz Sharif, Nasir-ul-Mulk, Nayyar Hussain Bukhari and Ayaz Sadiq are very happily and strongly handling Pakistan.

I think, Imran Khan holds good leadership skills of Muammar al-Gaddafi of Libya. Though Gaddafi’s military career and experiences made him dictator. That Gaddafi knew people do not accept a military officer as their leader through democracy, so he became dictator. Military officers always like to perform command & force and not capable to understand and realize public emotion and sentiment because of their most important time of life passed in the military customs and tradition.

But Imran Khan is now growing through an accepting platform. He becomes familiar and popular in the public platform. Pakistani people have love and faith on him. It is very important for a good leadership.

When people could trust him and love him then people may perform their activities whatever guide by the leader - Imran Khan. And by this way Imran Khan will capable to build a new Pakistan and sustainable educational & economical development will grow faster. Wherever, nuclear super power Pakistan will have available access to education in everywhere – all villages to remote areas. The misguided people do not involve to the Taliban, Al-Qaeda and any other terrorist group.

The world is growing very faster, economy, technology, education, agriculture and in every sector but still now lot of Pakistan’s children and women is obsessed in the educational rights, medical treatment facilities and other fundamental rights. Could you guess which way Pakistan is going forward?

Whoever leader(s) Pakistan requires right now, Pakistan cannot create yet but in this time, Imran Khan is the one of bests and more specifically – probably he is the best one right now.

So, it is right time to choose their leader for Pakistan’s people. This people do not mean only whoever are farmers and small businessmen but for everybody; government officers and employees, teachers, professors, doctors, engineers, scientists and everybody and also whoever hold the wealth’s and power.

There have a Proverbs; For lack of guidance a nation falls, but victory is won through many advisers.

So, Imran Khan presented himself, delivered himself to the people of Pakistan and now choice is depend upon people everybody. He is not come from military background; he is not come from existing political background that people know whoever is involved to practice dirty politics. He comes from fully different and new background that is cricket, was a great celebrity, was and remains in the heart of people of Pakistan.

It is also subject to remember that Imran Khan has very good popularity and acceptance all over the world. So, International relationship of Pakistan should work rightly that is very important for development of Pakistan.

Man cannot leave alone, so, you may say to your partner; If you seek my cooperation, please send me your favorite one to whom I may like and love and s/he also would capable to create his/her acceptance.

In the Global village, every nation is not out of the behavior.

People may not confuse to pick-up him as their leader as President or Prime Minister. It is not option, but opportunity to select him.


Author:
Hasanuzzaman Talukdar Shemul
Columnist and South Asian Representative of Modern Ghana Media Group
Student of Master of Disaster and Human Security Management program at Bangladesh University of Professionals

Dated: 27th October 2014, Monday, Dhaka - Bangladesh

@Hasan Uz-Zaman
Post reported for beeing Off-Topic. I would advice you to remove the post yourself.
I would also recommend You to read the rules about posting.
Friendly Piece of Advice:
If you make enough people irritated, you will end up where you no longer are able to post here.
If you follow the rules, then You will not have such problems.

 

[sancho]

Sources?

That is not what is reported here.
As I said, only 15 guaranteed to be assembled in Brazil, but the number *may* be higher.

It's translated but makes it clear I guess:

Among important issues, the revelation of the production plan, which provides that only 15 of the 36 aircraft will be built entirely in Brazil, and the first 21 partially built in Sweden, with the final production line in the country, at Embraer.

Google Tradutor


But even if you think about it, why would they make an assembly line at Embraer only for 15 fighters as you said? That would be far too costly and would nowhere include the parts that are meant to be produced from the Brazilan industry. I mean they won't build parts in Brazil for the first 21, send them to Sweden where the fighter gets assembled and then the whole fighter will be send to Brazil again? Not to mention that less than half of the order build or even assembled in Brazil would be highly disappointing and that even hat higher costs than expected.

@atlssa can you shed some light?

 

[sancho]

Another classic from Ajay Shukla

Brazil chooses Gripen over Rafale

Brazil's decision to buy the Swedish JAS-39E/F Gripen (or Gripen NG) has opened a tantalising possibility for India's defence ministry (MoD), which is frustrated after 33 months of negotiations with French company, Dassault on the proposed purchase of 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA)...

...Brazil will now ask Saab to develop the Sea Gripen, says defence analyst, INS Jane's. Twenty-four of these "navalised" fighters will equip Brazil's aircraft carrier, Sao Paulo.

IHS Jane's also highlights the Indian Navy's need for the Sea Gripen for two carriers that Cochin Shipyard is building - the 40,000-tonne INS Vikrant and a larger, yet unnamed, successor referred to as the Future Indigenous Carrier.

So far, the Indian Navy had planned to fly a naval version of the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) - the Naval Tejas - from these carriers. However, the Naval Tejas, which the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) is developing, may not be ready for service by 2018, when the Vikrant will be commissioned.

The Sea Gripen constitutes a new option as the Vikrant's light fighter. The navy already has a medium fighter, the MiG-29K, on order from Russia.

Brazil chooses Gripen over Rafale | Business Standard News


Another proof that he has no idea of what he is talking in Air Force / fighter matters!

- N-LCA tech demo developed and in testing, while Sea Gripen is available only on paper

- N-LCA is based on LCA MK2, which will be available only by 2018/19, so N-LCA will be delayed for Vikrant anyway

- but to develop the Sea Gripen, you need the Gripen E first too and just as LCA MK2, it is expected only by 2018/19, therefore the Sea Gripen will arrive later and delayed for Vikrant too

Whilst developing the Gripen NG, Saab changed the engine to the more powerful General Electric F-414 turbofan, and added more fuel; which is exactly what the DRDO proposes for the LCA Mark II. Fitting the bulkier, heavier F-414 into the Tejas would require re-engineering of the fuselage; a problem that Saab has promised to solve.

Wrong again, since DRDO did not proposed more fuel and a higher trust engine, that were demands by IN of the MK2, to improve the performance of N-LCA during carrier operations. Not to mention, that Saab has gone a far better, but also very different way to implement the engine and additional fuel, than ADA/DRDO did.


A lot of crap basically to sell the Gripen over the N-LCA, but at the same time to include Saab in the development of LCA Mk2. I guess not even he knows what he is writing.

 

[atlssa]

It's translated but makes it clear I guess:



Google Tradutor


But even if you think about it, why would they make an assembly line at Embraer only for 15 fighters as you said? That would be far too costly and would nowhere include the parts that are meant to be produced from the Brazilan industry. I mean they won't build parts in Brazil for the first 21, send them to Sweden where the fighter gets assembled and then the whole fighter will be send to Brazil again? Not to mention that less than half of the order build or even assembled in Brazil would be highly disappointing and that even hat higher costs than expected.

@atlssa can you shed some light?

sacho... remember that Brazilian Air Force will buy up 120 Gripen fighters. 36 is just the initial order, thats why we are making an assembly line at Embraer.

 

[sancho]

sacho... remember that Brazilian Air Force will buy up 120 Gripen fighters. 36 is just the initial order, thats why we are making an assembly line at Embraer.

That's the possible long term requirement, but the deal so far is only for 36 fighters and if only 15 of them would be assembled in Brazil as A.P. Richelieu said, that would be a pretty costly production line and disappointing for Brazil.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

That's the possible long term requirement, but the deal so far is only for 36 fighters and if only 15 of them would be assembled in Brazil as A.P. Richelieu said, that would be a pretty costly production line and disappointing for Brazil.

There has been talks all the way about up to 120 fighters, and the Brazilian Government probably knows
what its intentions are for the future.
Part of the deal is also comarketing on the world market, and You won't sell without production capacity.

 

[sancho]

There has been talks all the way about up to 120 fighters, and the Brazilian Government probably knows
what its intentions are for the future.
Part of the deal is also comarketing on the world market, and You won't sell without production capacity.

First they need to be able to afford them and if they would go for so many more soon, they would had increased the deal already, to not pay $150 million dollar each. Considering that even these 36 are meant to be delivered only by 2024, it's likely that they could go for armed drones to replace AMX fighters for example, not to mention that 5th gen fighters will sooner or later play a role too.