Russia's dreams come true in India with Putin's help

[rcrmj]

That's what I always thought.

I said it was "possible" because I don't like to talk in absolutes. And I would like to hear their justification for why it might be possible.

their 'justification' will always be the delusional will

giving all the world's best technologies to North Korean, do you really think they have the technological readiness and know-how to absorb them``?

same applies to India, its industrial technology know-how is at very primitive level, for example building a fighter jet is not about drawing nice airframes or fancy written 'stats' on papaer```the level of complexity has everything to do with the country's
1: areaodynamic research and accumilated experiences, (does india have world class wind tunnels, and decades of accumilated advanced research?``no, even the primitive LCA is done by the french and Russian)

2: metallurgy, composit material and its related industries (just check this field of reports and research citations, India is next to '0')

3: semiconductor material and its relatied industries (India even has to import all the important parts of their cheapest 'indigenous' tablet from other countries to assemble)

and with all other different areas but the same odd is that india is primitive in any of those areas (probably only good at handling customer 'complains')

and when comes down to specific ares:

does india have complete and well-establish defence industry? - No
can India make world standard fire arms? - No
Is india self-reliant on ammunitions and making good quality rounds indigenously? - No
is india self-reliant on designing land/air/sea based weapon systems? - No
can India make air/sea-born 1970s standard radars indigenously? - No
can India make any modern air/sea-born weapons indigenously? - No
and the reality list goes on `````

when you have a country who imports almost all the capital utilities/machineries, generators, computers and data processing equipments from others, a little common sense will understand their so-called R&D capability

 

[scarcry]

from rcmj i reply only to defence due to lack of time;

giving all the world's best technologies to North Korean, do you really think they have the technological readiness and know-how to absorb them``?

same applies to India, its industrial technology know-how is at very primitive level, for example building a fighter jet is not about drawing nice airframes or fancy written 'stats' on papaer```the level of complexity has everything to do with the country's
1: areaodynamic research and accumilated experiences, (does india have world class wind tunnels, and decades of accumilated advanced research?``no, even the primitive LCA is done by the french and Russian)

2: metallurgy, composit material and its related industries (just check this field of reports and research citations, India is next to '0')

3: semiconductor material and its relatied industries (India even has to import all the important parts of their cheapest 'indigenous' tablet from other countries to assemble)

and with all other different areas but the same odd is that india is primitive in any of those areas (probably only good at handling customer 'complains')

and when comes down to specific ares:

does india have complete and well-establish defence industry? - logistics yes combat oso so
can India make world standard fire arms? - yes msmc , insas APPEAR IN GAMES BO2 and ghost warrior 2
Is india self-reliant on ammunitions and making good quality rounds indigenously? - yes indian 5.56 rounds offer 10% more pressure than nato rounds
is india self-reliant on designing land/air/sea based weapon systems? - yup
can India make air/sea-born 1970s standard radars indigenously? - much more than that!
can India make any modern air/sea-born weapons indigenously? - yup ramgos
and the reality list goes on (ran out of time refer to globalsecurity.org and wikipedia)

when you have a country who imports almost all the capital utilities/machineries, generators, computers and data processing equipments from others, a little common sense will understand their so-called R&D capability

2016 onwards JOINT VENTURE + INDIGENOUS TECH MOSTLY!

 

[rcrmj]

But your your export model JF-17 still uses russian engine, why? because Chinese cant control news of engine performance like they did in china. thats why they prefer russian engine for JF-17



Well IAF standard are high, where F-16 planes also failed in the technical evaluation now judge our standard with yours , where PAF still like F-16 over JF-17

Well i heard JF-17 started crashing also aaah LCA didn't poor indian they cant make plane crash also.

so high that you still holding the world life-time crashing test record```

indians are good at finding ludicrous excuses for their total incompetency

China's turbofan engines is not as good as American's or Russian's or British ones```but you are talking about a country cannot even make a 1950s standard turbojet engines aka. India, and laughing at a country who makes turbofan engines and equipted with dozens of planes``and the only abstacle is the mass production and matellurgy techs need to catch-up with the States

thanks for the french airframe, Isreali avionics, and amrican engines plus FBW systems so your LCA is still up to the air```but once if your joke organization even did a bit fixings on it, LCA will be falling from skies like the tough Mog-21 from IA

 

[Yeti]

Firstly, if Russia didn't trust us then they wouldn't be offering to sell us a small number of Su-35's. Note the "small number" part which implies that the Su-35's are being bought to understand them rather than to use them as a proper force.

Secondly, if the Indian route regarding jet fighter technology is better than ours, then why is our fleet filled with all types of Chinese aircraft, including those equipped with WS-10A engines? While India still hasn't even inducted their "Light Combat Aircraft" yet?

I don't understand the logic? Why isn't it India that is shocking the world by concurrently developing TWO 5th-generation fighters at the same time (J-20 and J-31) while the ACMA is still just "on paper"?

I don't see how you can say your route is better when you still haven't even inducted the LCA, let alone anything else.

Sure the Russians are willing to sell you the SU-35 but only under their terms which state a selected number to be bought and under terms of a proper agreement to stop you cloning them like you did with the SU-27.


However, according to Kommersant's sources in the defense complex, the Russian side insists on stipulating legal warranties for observing the right to intellectual property to protect the Su-35 from possible Chinese counterfeits and prevent it from being sold in the markets of third countries at dumped prices.

 

[Yeti]

“The key question is if the Chinese can apply the Su-35 technology to their J-11B family aircraft. If the difference between these two types is big enough, than they cannot absorb that technology quickly and there is the possibility that they will evaluate the Su-35 and then buy additional number of them,” he said.

Kashin said the first batch of Chinese procured Su-27SK fighters in 1992 was for only 26 aircraft. “If they like it and if the J-11B project is not going smoothly, than they can buy more,” or buy the license to build the Su-35 in China.

“The J-11B program is in big trouble; the Chinese have lost a lot of aircraft in crashes,” said the U.S. source. “They have also reached a technological plateau and need help going to the next step beyond the Su-27/J-11.”



Is China Buying Russia’s Su-35 Fighter? | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[rcrmj]

“The key question is if the Chinese can apply the Su-35 technology to their J-11B family aircraft. If the difference between these two types is big enough, than they cannot absorb that technology quickly and there is the possibility that they will evaluate the Su-35 and then buy additional number of them,” he said.

Kashin said the first batch of Chinese procured Su-27SK fighters in 1992 was for only 26 aircraft. “If they like it and if the J-11B project is not going smoothly, than they can buy more,” or buy the license to build the Su-35 in China.

“The J-11B program is in big trouble; the Chinese have lost a lot of aircraft in crashes,” said the U.S. source. “They have also reached a technological plateau and need help going to the next step beyond the Su-27/J-11.”



Is China Buying Russia’s Su-35 Fighter? | Defense News | defensenews.com

there is a big bet going on at CJDBY (where all the J-20s, Y-20s and J-31s photos leaked out) that half believe that the deal will conclude with 24 signed, and other half believe that the deal will go sour```and a small group do not believe there is any talks about su-35 at all between China and Russia..

and most of the 'big fishes' and 'insiders' are eigher first group or second``so the reality is that there are some sort of talks going on between us...and this time we made it very clear that we need Su-35 for evaluation and testings not to induct them as means of front line fighters..

our defence industry's development strategy is aiming at total independancy, and the Russians know that very well``so it is easy decision for them to make to focus on another power eager but incapable nation -- india

so the defence relationship between Russia and India does have very 'bright' future, but honestly speaking the bright shines more at russians rather than Indians side. russia will get all the capitals they need to develop their defence industry and train its R&D teams``whereas Indians are mostly at the recieving end with a bit dispensable 'sugars' TOT to please you people

 

[Infinity]

You failed to understand my point and continued with the usual RANT! There is no such thing as friendship when it comes to foreign policy, ONLY interests... Whoever it may be

I agree..............But when it comes to China-Pakistan Relations you think otherwise...................

 

[wakapdf]

I agree..............But when it comes to China-Pakistan Relations you think otherwise...................

Nope....

 

[trinity]

While it is a good development, Russia needs to start taking India;s view of CHINA into consideration. Anyway, more JV's, joint development, and R&D between both should be the future.

 

[帅的一匹]

Reality Hurts , your only export model JF-17 not able to fly with Chinese engines, you still ask russian engines, ( why because Chinese cant control the media /leak of under performance of engine) if any, thats why china still prefer Russian engine.

Well calling copying of SU-27 plane , Chinese make you a laughing stock. Moreover if J-11B is chinese plane and SU-30 MKI is indian plane , you can call it.

How can a jet packed with France radar and israeli avionics called indigenous? you guys only assemble Al31 and MKI. We have indigenous4.5+ fighter like J10b with WS10a engine, what you say? Keep deny the fact showing your delusion.

 

[Yeti]

there is a big bet going on at CJDBY (where all the J-20s, Y-20s and J-31s photos leaked out) that half believe that the deal will conclude with 24 signed, and other half believe that the deal will go sour```and a small group do not believe there is any talks about su-35 at all between China and Russia..

and most of the 'big fishes' and 'insiders' are eigher first group or second``so the reality is that there are some sort of talks going on between us...and this time we made it very clear that we need Su-35 for evaluation and testings not to induct them as means of front line fighters..

our defence industry's development strategy is aiming at total independancy, and the Russians know that very well``so it is easy decision for them to make to focus on another power eager but incapable nation -- india

so the defence relationship between Russia and India does have very 'bright' future, but honestly speaking the bright shines more at russians rather than Indians side. russia will get all the capitals they need to develop their defence industry and train its R&D teams``whereas Indians are mostly at the recieving end with a bit dispensable 'sugars' TOT to please you people

But the relationship is moving from a buyer seller one to a joint production type as you can see with projects like Brahmos or the Multi-Role Transport Plane deal and these can be sold to 3rd parties which will help our exports also.

President Putin drew attention to Indo-Russian defence relations, which are no longer confined only to supplies of finished military hardware. The Russian leader eloquently spoke about the growing component of R&D (Research and Development), licensed production and joint export to third countries in the bilateral defence cooperation. President Putin argued in favour of such production cooperation since it reduces cost of production, helps in getting new technology and transfer technology from the military to the civilian sphere.

While Indo-Soviet defence cooperation was confined to Soviet supplies of military hardware to India making it a buyer-seller relationship, Indo-Russian military cooperation has gradually entered to the domain of joint research, development and production. Production of supersonic missile BrahMos, multi-role fighter jets Sukhoi-30 MKI in India, development of multi-role transport aircraft and fifth generation aircraft are some of the successful examples of such productive cooperation. There are many such projects in the pipeline. All this has unmistakably made India Moscow’s number one partner in military-technical cooperation, a strong pillar of Indo-Russian special and privileged strategic partnership.

 

[帅的一匹]

there is a big bet going on at CJDBY (where all the J-20s, Y-20s and J-31s photos leaked out) that half believe that the deal will conclude with 24 signed, and other half believe that the deal will go sour```and a small group do not believe there is any talks about su-35 at all between China and Russia..

and most of the 'big fishes' and 'insiders' are eigher first group or second``so the reality is that there are some sort of talks going on between us...and this time we made it very clear that we need Su-35 for evaluation and testings not to induct them as means of front line fighters..

our defence industry's development strategy is aiming at total independancy, and the Russians know that very well``so it is easy decision for them to make to focus on another power eager but incapable nation -- india

so the defence relationship between Russia and India does have very 'bright' future, but honestly speaking the bright shines more at russians rather than Indians side. russia will get all the capitals they need to develop their defence industry and train its R&D teams``whereas Indians are mostly at the recieving end with a bit dispensable 'sugars' TOT to please you people

Russia needs India's money and an access to Indian ocean, one can't deny that India is strategic important to Russia. But I have to say invest too much on arm race will hold back Indian economy in the long run. China is adopting a totally opposite way of defence development, which will show it's advantage in next 10years. The gap between china and India will be further enlarged favoring china. I have to say Putin is really a smart guys that he knows what Indian really in to at the right time and at the right place.

 

[UKBengali]

LOL @Indians.

Apart from engines, there is no doubt that both the J-20 and J-31 will be truly 5th generation fighters.

China has already demonstrated the ability to develop 4th gen airframes in the J-10 and JF-17.

It has demonstrated the ability to make capable radars with the likes of the J-10, JF-17, HQ-9 & KJ-2000.

The next logical conclusion is to take this to the next level and that is 5th generation.

Even with engines, the weakest point, China already has the 4th generation WS-10A in mass production. All that China needs to do now is to ramp up production to 200 engines a year and then it will have enough for J-11B, J-15, J-16 and J-10B. It is not a matter of quality but of quantity now.

At the very least fighters like J-20 and J-31 will be initially powered by souped-up 4th gen engines, if a 5th gen one is not ready by the latter part of this decade, and both fighters will be FAR superior than either the "Super-Sukhoi" or the Rafale.

Indians love to jump on the China-bashing bandwagon as they are insanely jealous of what China has achieved.

Even BD does not look towards India as a moving target for it's development but countries like Sri Lanka and Indonesia. China is way out of BD's league to target.

It is bizarre that Indians like to compare themselves to a country like China. This is like Malaysia comparing themselves to South Korea.

 

[Yeti]

LOL @Indians.

Apart from engines, there is no doubt that both the J-20 and J-31 will be truly 5th generation fighters.

China has already demonstrated the ability to develop 4th gen airframes in the J-10 and JF-17.

It has demonstrated the ability to make capable radars with the likes of the J-10, JF-17, HQ-9 & KJ-2000.

The next logical conclusion is to take this to the next level and that is 5th generation.

Even with engines, the weakest point, China already has the 4th generation WS-10A in mass production. All that China needs to do now is to ramp up production to 200 engines a year and then it will have enough for J-11B, J-15, J-16 and J-10B. It is not a matter of quality but of quantity now.
At the very least fighters like J-20 and J-31 will be initially powered by souped-up 4th gen engines, if a 5th gen one is not ready by the latter part of this decade, and both fighters will be FAR superior than either the "Super-Sukhoi" or the Rafale.

Indians love to jump on the China-bashing bandwagon as they are insanely jealous of what China has achieved.

Even BD does not look towards India as a moving target for it's development but countries like Sri Lanka and Indonesia. China is way out of BD's league to target.

It is bizarre that Indians like to compare themselves to a country like China. This is like Malaysia comparing themselves to South Korea.

Pity the industry experts disagree with you

http://www.ndu.edu/press/lib/pdf/books/chinese-air-force.pdf

The WS–10 is a copy of the Russian AL–31, and has
been installed in the J–10 and the J–11B since 2009. During test flights, PLAAF
test pilots reported abnormal engine vibrations, and thus, for a while, the PLAAF
refused to accept new deliveries of the aircraft. The JF–17 fighter aircraft, developed
jointly by China and Pakistan, uses Russian RD–93 engines. China has long
drawn upon Russian engine technology, but now, to lessen its dependency, it is
pursuing a Chinese derivative of the RD–93 under the designation of WS–13.
Though China has a certain degree of military engine manufacturing capability,
Chinese-made engines in general, compared with similar types of engines made
by Western countries, have short overhaul intervals and are slow in acceleration
to maximum power following rapid throttle application. This indicates that there
is still a significant technical lag in China’s engine development capabilities.

 

[I-LEK]

ya mate.long live our friendship.

Hurrah! strong friendship always =)