Russia's dreams come true in India with Putin's help

[Chinese-Dragon]

First of all you wouldn't go for a co-development with a partner you can't trust, but more importantly, you have access to the same knowledge as Russia would have as well and that for a way more capable engine. So in the same time that you spend to develop an engine that is comparable to AL 31, you could have jointly developed an 117S and gained much more on the industrial side as well. Now you have an engine that AFAIK still is not satisfactory in performance (similar to RD93 counterparts) and have not the knowledge to improve it to NG level, to use it on your stealth fighters and that's the reason why the Su35 and Russia is important again, since a 5th gen fighter is more than just a stealth airframe, but includes advanced radars, avionics and ENGINES as well!

Firstly, if Russia didn't trust us then they wouldn't be offering to sell us a small number of Su-35's. Note the "small number" part which implies that the Su-35's are being bought to understand them rather than to use them as a proper force.

Secondly, if the Indian route regarding jet fighter technology is better than ours, then why is our fleet filled with all types of Chinese aircraft, including those equipped with WS-10A engines? While India still hasn't even inducted their "Light Combat Aircraft" yet?

I don't understand the logic? Why isn't it India that is shocking the world by concurrently developing TWO 5th-generation fighters at the same time (J-20 and J-31) while the ACMA is still just "on paper"?

I don't see how you can say your route is better when you still haven't even inducted the LCA, let alone anything else.

 

[rashtriya.rifles]

Firstly, if Russia didn't trust us then they wouldn't be offering to sell us a small number of Su-35's. Note the "small number" part which implies that the Su-35's are being bought to understand them rather than to use them as a proper force.

Secondly, if the Indian route regarding jet fighter technology is better than ours, then why is our fleet filled with all types of Chinese aircraft, including those equipped with WS-10A engines? While India still hasn't even inducted their "Light Combat Aircraft" yet?

I don't understand the logic? Why isn't it India that is shocking the world by concurrently developing TWO 5th-generation fighters at the same time (J-20 and J-31) while the ACMA is still just "on paper"?

I don't see how you can say your route is better when you still haven't even inducted the LCA, let alone anything else.

Questions are valid but two things,

1. ToT in defence deals is a recent phenomenon. MOST deals earlier were off the shelf purchase.
2. LCA hasn't been inducted cause DRDO babus were not whipped in time.. PERIOD !!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Questions are valid but two things,

1. ToT in defence deals is a recent phenomenon. MOST deals earlier were off the shelf purchase.
2. LCA hasn't been inducted cause DRDO babus were not whipped in time.. PERIOD !!

I am willing to admit that it is possible, that India's method is better than China's regarding jet aircraft in the long run.

But we'll have to wait 10 years to see for sure.

Currently, I just don't understand how Indians can put us down regarding jet engines, when we have fully operational J-11b's flying with WS-10A engines. And when our fleet is filled with our own Chinese jet fighters.

 

[帅的一匹]

China has invested 100 billions RMB in engine development. See what happen 5years later? Russia play a different game when selling weapon to India and china. They take India for granted that they are not able to reverse anything.

 

[manqiangrexue]

No, Chinese-Dragon, you made sense in all your posts until now. How is it possible that India's strategy is better than China's in the long run? In the short run, it is possible, because the money buys more jets, but in the long run, China's is sure to be better as we have indigenous programs to build jets for cheaper, without downgrade, without dependency on foreign nations (working on the engine, almost there). And, all the money you spend on domestic productions stays in your country whereas importing them pumps the money into foreign nations.

If we wanted to do what India was doing, we would trump them outright. We have many times more money. India thinks Russia is its friend, yeah, everyone's your friend when you give them money. If China did not feel like developing aircraft, we could take that money and spend $200 billion over 10 years ($20 billion per year) to acquire 2,000 PAK FA from Russia ($100 million per copy, which is an extremely expensive estimate given the volume of purchase) at 200 per year. It is beyond Russia's current production ability and beyond their wildest dream! If, with this 10 year, $200 billion contract, we stipulated that they cancel all Indian contracts (such as the one for 42 Su-30MKI for $1.6 billion), you can bet your curry you'd never see another Russian in India for the rest of your life (or until China's funds run dry).

We could easily choke India like this, but we don't want to because this way, we will be dependent on Russia. A true superpower is dependent only on itself, so it is never forced into complying with the demands of any other nation. If you depend on Russia, and you come into conflict with them, they stop selling you weapons and you're done! Superpowers don't let themselves get into this situation and we have a much harder road to walk that simply buying things.

What the heck is this thread about? I read it and it seems it serves no other purpose than to invoke argument.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

No, Chinese-Dragon, you made sense in all your posts until now. How is it possible that India's strategy is better than China's in the long run? In the short run, it is possible, because the money buys more jets, but in the long run, China's is sure to be better as we have indigenous programs to build jets for cheaper, without downgrade, without dependency on foreign nations (working on the engine, almost there). And, all the money you spend on domestic productions stays in your country whereas importing them pumps the money into foreign nations.

That's what I always thought.

I said it was "possible" because I don't like to talk in absolutes. And I would like to hear their justification for why it might be possible.

 

[djsjs]

good news .congratulations to indians.you are now on the high speed way of military modernization.so nice.we feel envy that russians don't sell us the best weapons.

 

[manqiangrexue]

That's what I always thought.

I said it was "possible" because I don't like to talk in absolutes. And I would like to hear their justification for why it might be possible.

They can't possibly have justification for that. Justification is they have neither the ability nor the determination to do what China does. For them, it's either buy weapons or throw rocks at enemies.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

They can't possibly have justification for that. Justification is they have neither the ability nor the determination to do what China does. For them, it's either buy weapons or throw rocks at enemies.

I would like to hear it anyway.

Being too proud is dangerous, no one can see the future. It may look impossible from the current facts, but history is full of surprises.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

I am willing to admit that it is possible, that India's method is better than China's regarding jet aircraft in the long run.

But we'll have to wait 10 years to see for sure.

Currently, I just don't understand how Indians can put us down regarding jet engines, when we have fully operational J-11b's flying with WS-10A engines. And when our fleet is filled with our own Chinese jet fighters.

Reality Hurts , your only export model JF-17 not able to fly with Chinese engines, you still ask russian engines, ( why because Chinese cant control the media /leak of under performance of engine) if any, thats why china still prefer Russian engine.

Well calling copying of SU-27 plane , Chinese make you a laughing stock. Moreover if J-11B is chinese plane and SU-30 MKI is indian plane , you can call it.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Reality Hurts , your only export model JF-17 not able to fly with Chinese engines, you still ask russian engines, ( why because Chinese cant control the media /leak of under performance of engine) if any, thats why china still prefer Russian engine.

Well calling copying of SU-27 plane , Chinese make you a laughing stock. Moreover if J-11B is chinese plane and SU-30 MKI is indian plane , you can call it.

Induct your LCA first, then we can talk about "Indian planes".

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

China has invested 100 billions RMB in engine development. See what happen 5years later? Russia play a different game when selling weapon to India and china. They take India for granted that they are not able to reverse anything.

But your your export model JF-17 still uses russian engine, why? because Chinese cant control news of engine performance like they did in china. thats why they prefer russian engine for JF-17

Induct your LCA first, then we can talk about "Indian planes".

Well IAF standard are high, where F-16 planes also failed in the technical evaluation now judge our standard with yours , where PAF still like F-16 over JF-17

Well i heard JF-17 started crashing also aaah LCA didn't poor indian they cant make plane crash also.

 

[karan21]

Russian dream: Milk the Indian COW and feed the Russian DOGS.

 

[GORKHALI]

Firstly, if Russia didn't trust us then they wouldn't be offering to sell us a small number of Su-35's. Note the "small number" part which implies that the Su-35's are being bought to understand them rather than to use them as a proper force.

Secondly, if the Indian route regarding jet fighter technology is better than ours, then why is our fleet filled with all types of Chinese aircraft, including those equipped with WS-10A engines? While India still hasn't even inducted their "Light Combat Aircraft" yet?

I don't understand the logic? Why isn't it India that is shocking the world by concurrently developing TWO 5th-generation fighters at the same time (J-20 and J-31) while the ACMA is still just "on paper"?

I don't see how you can say your route is better when you still haven't even inducted the LCA, let alone anything else.

Well here we Go 5th Generation aircrafts comments. At what point you says it's an 5th Aircraft my friend? J20 and J31 still uses a 4th Gen Engine,not sure about Electronics front but you can still take my 2 cent on this field too that Chinese Placed 4th Gen J10B electronics onboard. LCA is as Good as any aircraft in its class. Let LCA prove itself on field (Catch Iron Fist exercise) not on paper unlike some 1st then we going to Induct it too.

Induct your LCA first, then we can talk about "Indian planes".

Let J XX prove they are worth, else even my 12$ RC Made in China Plane fly too but most of the time it's a hanger Queen.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Indians just don't get it! Your Kaveri engine... does it power anything? Is there a flying prototype? No. WS-10A powers a prototype J-10B, and several operational J-11B. China's engines are not as good as American engines but we strive to make them better and we make improvements every day. That is the end of the engine debate. Rule is, you only criticize people worse than yourself. For India to criticize Chinese engines is like an F student criticizing a B student for not being an A student.

"We have higher standards" or "We don't like to copy" is complete BS excuse. BS excuses don't get things done; doing everything to succeed gets things done.