Russia wins large contract to modernize Indian Su-30MKI fighters

[danger007]

Actually the F-22 has only two things: stealth capability and supercruise capability. The systems that the Super 30 will receive are way beyond what the F-22 has. The same goes for its massive armament and easier maintenance.



This is why I don't consider the 5th generation label to be of much value. While F-22 vs. Super 30 is debatable, there can be no doubt that the Super 30 will be superior to the future F-35, which is generally considered a fifth generation fighter. Even with its stealth, the F-35 will be spotted at long ranges by the amazing AESA radar that the Super 30 will have, and in terms of maneuverability and acceleration performance, the F-35 is outperformed by even the decades old Mig-29.

let us not jumpy here. if you are talking about the pure capabilities apart from stealth, it will be fine. when it comes to stealth total scenario will be different. that little world stealth makes alot different in case of war theater.

 

[Yeti]

F35 AESA is 2nd gen lets remember America was the first country to develop it and the rest are just now catching up with 1st gen AESA systems

 

[jha]

Actually the F-22 has only two things: stealth capability and supercruise capability. The systems that the Super 30 will receive are way beyond what the F-22 has. The same goes for its massive armament and easier maintenance.

F-22 has many things which Super MKI wont have..Radar being one...The stealth + Supercruise + Radar + Passive detection gives it a huge edge over any system. You cant shoot a plane your Radar is not seeing..

This is why I don't consider the 5th generation label to be of much value. While F-22 vs. Super 30 is debatable, there can be no doubt that the Super 30 will be superior to the future F-35, which is generally considered a fifth generation fighter. Even with its stealth, the F-35 will be spotted at long ranges by the amazing AESA radar that the Super 30 will have, and in terms of maneuverability and acceleration performance, the F-35 is outperformed by even the decades old Mig-29.

Again not a very well thought post...F-35 may not outmaneuver a Su-30 but then it doesn't have to..It can shoot Su-30 well before Flanker sees it... Stealth is still a biggie...

 

[Abingdonboy]

Why is anyone comparing SUPER MKI to F-22?? The SUPER 30 will NOT be able to match F-22. Fact. This should come of no surprise to anyone as the SUPER-30 isn't meant to compete with F-22-was never meant ot be a 5th gen fighter. The SUPER UPG is only to continue the leagcy of the MKI being the most kick a$$ 4th gen fighter in existence- bar none. A much more fair comparison would be FGFA/PAK-FS VS F-22 but that is for another time and place.

Apples and Oranges friends. But naturally there will be many 5th gen features on SUPER-30 UPG.

 

[Dr. NooB NinjA]

I fail to comprehend one particular point...

That being : If the super MKI is the most kick a$$ 4++++times infinity generation fighter; why bother with EFT or the rafale??!!



Also can someone please compare super MKI with the non upg su-30 fighters... It might be a pain to reply to this... But I am sort of "fighter technology challenged" ..

 

[praveen007]

I fail to comprehend one particular point...

That being : If the super MKI is the most kick a$$ 4++++times infinity generation fighter; why bother with EFT or the rafale??!!



Also can someone please compare super MKI with the non upg su-30 fighters... It might be a pain to reply to this... But I am sort of "fighter technology challenged" ..

your answer is-
diversification of resurces.
.
Now for comperison.
1. present Mki-- bar radar, high rcs(approx-10sqm), not full glass cockpit, k-100 a2a awacs-killer not intigrated, unable to carry brahmos, pesa radar, and Al-31 engine.
.
.
2. Super 30 upgrade-- bar aesa radar, may be Al-41 engine for high power, low rcs by RAM coating application on skin, full glass-cockpit, integration of k-100 a2a and brahmos,
.
These are only few upgrads.

 

[Jon Snow]

we definitely need new engines for the Su 30MKI - after application of several layers of RAM , the weight will significantly increase so we would need higher thrust - also the IAF isnt too happy with the current engines - there have been rumours of engine failures also the current engines have only 2D TVC - put on new engines like the 117S with 3D TVC and the MKI will be even more maneuverable.

As for other upgrades - they will include AESA radar, full glass cockpit, advanced EWS, Brahmos ,also new BVR missiles - though there has been much talk of RVV SD and also some of RVV AE PD - I really hope we go for meteor- there are rumours that we will put meteor on the MKI as it will increase commonality with MRCA - the MKI currently uses 2 BVR missiles - the R 27 and the R77 - both these missiles should be replaced - the R 27 by the Meteor and the R 77 by the Astra . Also the K 100 is already integrated afaik - but if not so then we will see it too.

 

[Abingdonboy]

your answer is-
diversification of resurces.
.
Now for comperison.
1. present Mki-- bar radar, high rcs(approx-10sqm), not full glass cockpit, k-100 a2a awacs-killer not intigrated, unable to carry brahmos, pesa radar, and Al-31 engine.
.
.
2. Super 30 upgrade-- bar aesa radar, may be Al-41 engine for high power, low rcs by RAM coating application on skin, full glass-cockpit, integration of k-100 a2a and brahmos,
.
These are only few upgrads.

+ HMDS,
+ Not sure if later engine replacment will be inclued but currently plans are purely to modify the AL-31FP, presently rated at 126kN with afterburning, will offer 20% more power when uprated by NPO Saturn-its manufacturer-and will have a total technical service life of 6,000 hours, instead of the present 2,000 hours. The uprated engine will also employ a larger diameter fan, redesigned key hot-end components and cooling system technologies to permit reduced thrust lapse rates with altitude, which in turn will permit supercruise.
+New-generation full-authority digital engine controls (FADEC) as well as all-axis thrust-vectoring nozzles (±15 degrees in the vertical plane and ±8 degrees in the horizontal plane.
+The digital flight-control computer too will be replaced to achieve harmonisation of the digital flight control laws associated with supercruise and all-aspect supermanoeuvrability.
+Hands-on-throttle-and-stick (HOTAS) controls.
+Mission management avionics package will include dual redundant core avionics computers developed by the Defence Research & development Organisation’s (DRDO) Bangalore-based Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) and built by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).
+The integrated defensive aids suite, now being developed by a joint venture of DARE and Cassidian of Germany, will include the MILDS AN/AAR-60 missile approach warning system (MAWS).
+EW management computer and Tarang Mk3 radar warning receiver (developed by DARE and built by Bharat Electronics Ltd).
+ Countermeasures dispenser built by Bharat Dynamics Ltd,
+Expendable active electronic decoys, a reusable fibre-optic ABRL active radar towed-decoy using suppression, deception and seduction techniques, and an internal EW suite supplied by Elettronica of Italy (the very same Virgilius suite that is on board the MiG-29UPG and EFT).


+ SO much more in terms of avionics and a kick a$$ weapons package but I'd be here all night if I tried to list them all. It is not hard to see why this plane will rule the skies EASILY of Asia and anywhere there isn't a 5th gen fighter around (and in some cases even when there is!).

 

[Birbal]

F-22 has many things which Super MKI wont have..Radar being one...The stealth + Supercruise + Radar + Passive detection gives it a huge edge over any system. You cant shoot a plane your Radar is not seeing..

The future radar on the Super 30 is far more powerful than the F-22 radar. Again, I think most of the time the F-22 would usually win a one on one fight against the Super 30 but it simply doesn't have the multirole capabilities that the Super 30 has, which overall makes the Super 30 a much more useful asset in an air force.

Again not a very well thought post...F-35 may not outmaneuver a Su-30 but then it doesn't have to..It can shoot Su-30 well before Flanker sees it... Stealth is still a biggie...

Wrong. The powerful Super 30 radar will be able to see the F-35 outside the range of the F-35's AMRAAMs. The F-35 simply is not stealthy enough to defeat the Super 30 radar.

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------

F35 AESA is 2nd gen lets remember America was the first country to develop it and the rest are just now catching up with 1st gen AESA systems

It doesn't matter how good it is. The bottom line is that both the Super 30 and the F-35 will be able to see each other long before they can shoot at each other. Don't forget that the Russians are no slouches in the radar game either, as they were the first to develop a PESA radar.

 

[Killswitch]

No we did not bribe anyone, we just took a big chunk of kashmir, even gifted some to china.

Since you gave it to China, Indians know you don't really care about Kashmr or its people.

Pakistanis just want to destroy India.

That's Why India will never give in to Islamo-Fascists.