Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments

[Oldman1]

Wow - they are using dumb bombs - explains their losses from low level attacks for sure.

Not to mention the cloud cover, can't bomb through clouds what they can't see.

 

[Dustom999]

I think this thread has lost some important perspective.

Russia is at war with a technologically near peer adversary. Despite being 10 times larger and more numerous, it is performing an invasion into Ukrainian home turf. This means the logistics problem is mostly for Russia. Supply lines for this is easy since it is right next door and they have Belarus. Meanwhile Ukraine has also benefited from supply increases before the war and also during of western arms.

Russia losing stuff is to be expected. They are making progress on control of regions. We don't see much of what Ukraine has been losing but the losing control of land shows enough. It would be total loss on Ukrainian side for loss of land or if strategic pull back, then defeated by Russian side. Just to be objective about it.

Maybe some (and this is pushed by media) expected that Russia would have minimal loss or something.

This is an occupation invasion, and a very intense one and fast paced. In Iraq, US took about 2 weeks for control over it and Ukraine is far stronger than Iraq with the military capability between Iraq and then USA compared to Ukraine and Russia now being far greater as well.

At whatever location Russian forces finally stops and starts consolidation, media will term as west succeed in halting Russian advance. Even if Russia takes control of entire Ukraine ( which I don't think is the objective here), west will say we saved poland et al

 

[nangyale]

Let Russia do it. What groups will this be?

The right sector that has been armed and weaponised by the West is enough to spread havoc in the EU.
Just give it a few years and everyone will be able to witness the EUs equivalent of Kalashinkov culture.

 

[Ali_Baba]

For those who have not seen this site - useful to track what being reported as lost for the Russian side : https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

 

[RescueRanger]

The right sector that has been armed and weaponised by the West is enough to spread havoc in the EU.
Just give it a few years and everyone will be able to witness the EUs equivalent of Kalashinkov culture.

Yes - strong meth vibes from Eastern Europe and now they will have anti tank weapons and stingers

 

[nangyale]

LOL! Considering what happened in the past wars with superpowers like in Vietnam and Afghanistan, I'm surprised you think they should surrender after all the deaths and destruction. And what makes you think Putin would abandon the country he conquers?

Not abandon just not part of Russia itself, something akin to Belarus, or Kazakhstan.

 

[Oldman1]

The right sector that has been armed and weaponised by the West is enough to spread havoc in the EU.
Just give it a few years and everyone will be able to witness the EUs equivalent of Kalashinkov culture.

Or spread into Russia as well...

Not abandon just not part of Russia itself, something akin to Belarus, or Kazakhstan.

LOL sure!

 

[nangyale]

Yes - strong meth vibes from Eastern Europe and now they will have anti tank weapons and stingers

I am sure the Brits are thanking their lucky stars for Brexit.

 

[jhungary]

Might is right. This is what you saying? And you are fine with it that the country you are serving is nothing but a sham, a con-artist, a pathetic tyrant? And you are fine with the fact that the country you are serving is committing genocides around the world?

The rest of the world might not be as resourceful (propaganda wise) but will hear no more lectures from those hyenas! I agree, our countries should take a clue and abandon these "democracy" dramas. Learn from the West if you want to develop yourself!

In the meanwhile deal with Putin, we aint taking no sides. Time, and not propaganda, will tell how it ends...

You still don't get it.

In any race, there are only 1 winner, you can say you have 2nd place or 3rd place, but in world view, you have 1 winner and 7 loser, nobody is going to remember who come 2nd in 2021 Mens 100 meters sprint race. Because nobody cares about losers, whether or not they are the 1st loser or the 7th,

You can call us Hyena 100 times on your TV, on your internet forum post, so what? How many people see that and care about that? One post from MSNBC calling you (Whatever name they call you) and you got stick with that, you want to talk about fair? Sad, but true. And you know what, vilify people like you who think the Western value is shit make money, they don't care about you, all they want is to make money, and what you are doing is helping them, not hurting them. The more you react this way, the more the west is going to report that and make money. Nothing else make as much money than setting someone as enemy.

And you think you are big enough or strong enough to challenge the existing system? If you really think so, then you are UBER naïve. The system is set up so no one can challenge anything, otherwise how else do you think there are "Veto" in UN security council? In world politic, you are either a prey or predictor, and there are ALWAYS going to be 5 Predators, and everyone else is a prey.

Nobody care about what you think, because to the people who have money and power to do something, you are nothing to them, you don't even worth 30 second on a news segment to talk about your plight, your story worth shit that nobody want to listen, and you think that is propaganda, maybe, but enough people buy that than your crap become mainstream.

I don't honestly care about what you think about the West, or what you think you can do, that does not concern me at all, at the end of the day, you live your life and I live mine, you hatred is none of my business, and none of most people business and people don't care. And you can either keep hating us, or find someone who have similar belief with you and hate us together, either way it didn't change a god damn thing, until you are stupid enough to act on it, then we will come F you up, and you know what, the world don't care about you, and hence don't care about we F you up, because, as I said, you are dirt if you don't have money and power, nobody cares until you give us a reason to care about you.

 

[coffee_cup]

It seems you didn't really pay attention to what he wrote.

You're doing a poor attempt at shaming him, because what you said is simply ridiculous.

May be I am too naive to believe in rule of law and justice.

That apparently does not exist in this world, might is still right.

So why are we debating Russian invasion of Ukraine? According to the principal taught by the West, the did it because they could. Period.

 

[That Guy]

For those who have not seen this site - useful to track what being reported as lost for the Russian side : https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

@Musings

this is the site I was talking about.

 

[LeGenD]

For those who have not seen this site - useful to track what being reported as lost for the Russian side : https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

Excellent link.

Added in following thread:

The Russia - Ukraine War Repository Thread with Fact-checking considerations

GENERAL COVERAGE OF THE RUSSIA - UKRAINE WAR is in following threads: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ Status: CLOSED https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments-part-2.746450/ Status: OPEN - Both threads contain...

defence.pk

@PanzerKiel

 

[nangyale]

Or spread into Russia as well...


LOL sure!

That's what NATO will try to do.

But it would be a lot easier for these Orcs to go West because of open borders and their current herofication plus eventual demonisation.

 

[dBSPL]

still?

/facepalm/

 

[iLION12345_1]

In genuine honesty, I don't think we can compare the Russian/Ukraine war with any wars in the recent past (those were fairly one-sided, with the Western powers enjoying a lop-sided advantage).

Given that Russian armor is facing somewhat modern weaponry at hands of Ukrainians and suffering due to it, where does that put our usage of armor, given Indian anti-armor capability? This is what I am most interested in knowing more about.

Do you anticipate Pakistan or India making fewer logistical, and operational mistakes than Russians or Ukrainians? (Keeping in mind events of Feb 26 and 27th both).

And I am tagging @PanzerKiel since he's written a lot about mistakes from 65', 71' wars. I'd love to know what he thinks of the current situation here and if it tells us anything about what the future might be like at our end.

Sorry it took me so long to get to this, been rather busy. I agree that this war can’t really be compared to others in recent history, but at the same time, in my opinion, it doesn’t compare too much to the Pakistan-india theatre either. Maybe it would be comparable if Ukraine and Russia had both made certain decisions; on Ukraines part it would have been to prepare for an invasion properly, and on Russias part it would have been to carry out said invasion properly.

The amount of mistakes made by either side are unprecedented, I don’t expect either india or Pakistan to do so poorly in regards to logistics and operational mistakes, simply because both the sides have been preparing for a war with each other for decades. Half the Russian troops didn’t even seem to know they were going to war…

Russia is invading Ukraine with basically no war plan, and Ukraine is defending the same way, in india and Pakistans case they have everything planned meticulously, in fact both the armies have been preparing for so long with war-games and exercises that they might be able to switch countries and Still know exactly what to do lol. They’ve played our more war-game scenarios than could occur in a real war. It’s rather impressive just how many contingencies either side has planned too, which force goes where, what to do in case X or Y occurs, how each other’s logistics work etc, nearly everything is known.

What I’m trying to say is, the difference between the Indo-Pak and Ukrainian-Russian theatre would be that in our case, nearly everything is pre-planned, both armies will fight the war a certain way according to their doctrine. In the case of Russia-Ukraine, it’s a near sudden invasion and a rush to grab the capital. Pakistan and india have very different goals in a war against each other. So I totally expect them to make less mistakes.

Another important point in this regard is that both Ukraine and Russia rely heavily on conscripts or reluctant volunteers with morale issues. In those countries the military is a last-ditch career for many. Such is not the case in the volunteer armies of Pakistan and india. Especially on the Pakistani side where the military is quite a respectable job with a larger than life image. Add to that Pakistans war fighting experience in the last 20 years that india lacks as well.

Now coming to the part about Indian anti-armor capability, that really is a scary thought. In a PAK-IND scenario most of the losses on either side (tanks, armored vehicles etc) will not be to other tanks, they will be to ATGMs and other portable missile launchers, as we are seeing in Ukraine. As well as gunships and drones. And these losses will likely be massive on both sides.

In this regard, India has rather impressive ATGM Arsenal as well as a lot of gunships on order. Pakistan is obviously trying to keep up with its own purchases in the same regard (Z-10ME, T-129B, HJ-12 etc) but has hit some snags in the way. However Pakistan has been inducting a lot of armed drones to cover for this gap. I’ve said it before that the Indian tank fleet is not really impressive when compared to Pakistans, but it’s all the supporting elements that will make it really dangerous for any Pakistan offensive. I hope both sides are looking at Ukraine and learning some lessons in this regard, Pakistan about ATGMs and India about drones.

Another major issue in the Ukrainian theatre has been poor use of AD and Air forces. Russia, despite having a clear advantage in both, has failed to use them effectively, something I again don’t expect from Pakistan and India (27th February does make me rethink that at times), at least not to that level. PA and PAF have laid a lot of emphasis on joint exercises in the recent past to improve interoperability as well as SHORAD coverage for advancing armor columns, something I’m sure india and Russia practice too, but only a real war can show how effective said training was.

This is not to say that Pakistani and Indian militaries are better trained than Ukraine and Russia (I personally believe they are), but just that they have prepared for this war a lot longer, and at least on the Pakistani side there are far fewer morale, desertion and ghost soldier issues.