The indoctrinated russians see a “fight against the nazis”
The ukranians see a new invasion from their former butchers.
Russians can see how the Ukrainian regime has made russhophobic Nazi references socially acceptable (while largely sidelining other aspects of Nation-Socialist discourse), and they react accordingly to this provocative affront.
Indoctrinated Ukrainians are discovering that doing the west's dirty work, immediately threatening Russia's border security and depriving local Russian communities of their rights will come at a steep price. Russia's no walkover.
Here, fixed it.
In his annual state of the nation address on Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”
www.nbcnews.com
President draws parallel with tsar who waged war on Sweden and says campaign in Ukraine stems from ‘basic values’
amp.theguardian.com
Experts say Putin’s remarks are intended to justify Russian claims over Ukraine
time.com
Couldn't find a statement where Putin declares he intends to restore the borders of the USSR in those sources.
The writing is on the wall…atleast for ukraine being under very real threat of annexation….
The USSR was far wider than just Russia and Ukraine. As for Ukraine, I indicated how the regime in Kiev sabotaged peaceful resolution, and how the security stakes for Russia are on a completely different level than what the US was facing when it decided to bomb Iraq, Syria, Libya etc.
Its a multitude of things. Like putin thinking the soviet collapse was a catastrophe, like russia being in denial about sovjet misdoings (holodomir/warsaw). This all adds up to a situation that there is very little reason to assume the russian federation is an entirely different beast from the past.
This is simply speculation based on a series of gratuitous inferences. And it leaves aside the objective and serious security threats emanating from NATO which Russia has been confronted with.
And look…trying to annex a coubtry again. What a suprise. No wonder sweden and finland had enough.
Not in an unprovoked manner. Not out of an expansionist, hegemonist drive but out of a defensive calculus, like it or not.
You are just playing with semantics.
As If tomorrow america would rename itself and put a million army next to iran i would be calling you paranoid to raise eyebrows…”its a new regime. All the past is wiped out from record!”
It's more as if the USA would not just rename itself, but also completely revise its institutional and political order, its economic system, its state ideology, official symbols and more.
And, for the analogy to be accurate Iran would have had to take advantage of temporary American weakness in order to integrate Cuba and Mexico into a defensive alliance under Iranian leadership, hold wargames in those countries, run secret bio labs there, hold talks with Canada to join the alliance, stage two consecutive "color revolutions" in Ottowa to install rabidly anti-American movements into power, who would then proceed to suppressing the rights of local citizens of American descent... Oh, and Iran would need to be armed with several thousand nuclear weapons to boot.
Any attempt by this new American regime to push back on hostile forces in Canada would be misconstrued as "a return to the old ways", an awakening of the imperialist demons of the USSR and so on. Out of the blue, Washington would be accused of intending to invade Iran's neighbors next.
This is more like it. Not quite the same as the quoted scenario now, is it.
Childsplay compared to russian behaviour.
No evidence to suggest such a thing. In fact empirical data points to the opposite.
Thats the russian framing yes. Instead we are helping millions of refugees and millions of ukranians who just want their sovereignity. Which russia is trying to erase, against signed promises…
...in order to avert her own balkanization at the hands of an enemy that breached its geopolitical promises first.
Was talking about chechnia, syria.
Ukraine is not on that level yet but casualties are mounting.
Vastly different types of interventions by Moscow. What they do have in common though, is that all three were triggered by NATO assault on vital Russian interests, or in Syria's case major Russian interests.
Its a defensive alliance. Most eastern european countries joined this as a result of past russian agression and annexation.
You cannot rewrite the past iranian.
And this absolves NATO's aggressive behaviour displayed with excessive vigor since the collapse of the Soviet Union? Not that during the bipolar rivalry, NATO regimes refrained from launching multiple bloody wars with an appalling human toll.
It didn't take long for the original pretext invoked for NATO's creation to fade in the face of these brutal and unjustified offensive undertakings.
You use sovjet time vague verbal promises and acts (nato expanding) when it suits you, and pretend that sovjet past doesnt exist when it doesnt suit you.
Its quite apparent….
Yes because those aspects of Soviet past no longer exist. It's quite simple.
You use the ukranian court findings during pro-russian dominated times when it suits you. And its part of zionist manipulation when not (like yanukovich being judged a traitor)
So during Yushchenko's presidency, when those poisoning claims were investigated, Russian-friendly forces were ruling Ukraine? Not really.
Not that simple
A unit between 900-2500 members. Most nationalist with a minority holding fascist ideas.
Ukrainian nationalists espouse Bandera. Brainwashed and egged on by their NATO-submissive regime, lots of Ukrainians no directly adhering to nationalist formations do as well.
Plus as told, within the military and political scene, armed far right units wield highly disproportionate influence upon the decision-making process. Such as threatening former president Poroshenko with death were he to insist on implementing the ceasefire stipulated for by the Minsk agreements.
This is ofcourse no justification to invade to “denazify” ukraine with its 44 million population.
Russian claims ate widely ridiculed…you parotting the “nazis everywhere” angle is equally laughable.
Azov being a neo-Nazi group onto itself may not be a justification but I explained Russia's rationale in length already, and it's a solid, legitimate one.
Do i need to post videos of russians gunning down civilians? Denazification in progress?
Every imaginable document was posted in this thread. We all saw them, and evidence for war crimes incriminates the Kiev regime much rather than Russia.
You have no issue with taking russian statements at face value.
No issue with choosing what parts of history to use and what not. What parts of promises “count” and what not.
You dont have a semblance of objectivity.
No matter how you spin it, history does not present claims by NATO under a particularly credible light.
Every day ukraine is resisting further damages your propaganda that the vast majority of russian speaking ukranians were heavily oppressed and eager for “liberation”.
You must have thought this was was gonna be over in a week huh?
No I didn't. In fact it was the western mainstream media which simply attributed such thinking to Russia, when in fact Moscow never expressed this kind of assessment.
What I know though, is that the Ukrainian regime lost the war, for all practical purposes, in the first two to three weeks. Everything that followed and will follow from now on, is akin to a formality, be it a protracted one. As said the outcome can be delayed, not modified.
You prefer your russian polls i understand.
12 million refugees to “zelenski nazi regime” zones or the “nazi nato” . Hmm thats a lot of ukranian nazis! Again. Just wait. Cold hard numbers..cold hard reality is cracking your deluded propaganda frame day by day.
My comments were clear as to how Ukrainians supportive of the Kiev regime relate to Nazism, WW2 and so on.
As for refugees, I'm not sure what you're attempting to prove with these numbers. Because few will risk crossing the frontlines to reach Russian-controlled territory, since they'd face harsh reprisal from Ukrainian extremists if caught. A Russian-speaker from Kharkov wanting to evade the crossfire for instance, will find it much easier and safer to seek refuge somewhere in central or western Ukraine than further to the east, even though they might side politically with Russia. It's a question of practicality in essence, but it doesn't imply that these refugees are preferring the Banderist, NATO-subservient Kiev regime to the Russian liberators.
Hahaha grozny, aleppo, mariopol is russias gentle approach? How far from reality have you deluded yourself?
You're amalgating various scenarii, which unfolded under fundamentally different circumstances. My statement was that Russia's ongoing campaign in Ukraine does not resemble the typical heavy handed approach resorted to by NATO. Now you can rehash Grozny and Aleppo all you want, but it'll be beside the point.
Mariupol indeed, where die hard ultra-nationalist units of the Ukrainian military had taken up position in some of the most impenetrable shelters designed to withdstand nuclear blasts among others, where defenders taking cover inside civilian buildings was the norm, and where a nihilistic mindset reminiscent of the Wehrmacht's futile but unnecessarily self-destructive 1945 defense of Berlin resulted in above average damage to infrastructure.
I mean, you can repeat it a thousand times, the response will remain unchanged.
Russia has a massive military advantage over ukraine.
Now 20 million ukranians are “supposedly” dying to rejoin russia.
Ukranian morale regular units (which is vast majority btw) is supposedly at an extreme low.
Yes…ofcourse such a war takes 100 days without end in sight yet….your propaganda shatters in front of situation on the ground.
Have Russian-speakers left the liberated areas en masse? Negative. They can't wait to be granted Russian citizenship.
Russia has a massive military advantage indeed, which is why it has secured victory in this war already. Russia has had a total monopoly on strategic initiative and it is the only side capable of maneuver warfare, while Ukrainian forces have shown themselves to be static, entrenched in fortified positions and desperately seeking to delay the inevitable.
Considering the amount and type of forces committed by Moscow, as well as all other relevant factors, a hundred days to achieve the present result (liberation of some 25% of Ukraine's territory) is perfectly normal. It's going to take some additional months, however the outcome will stay the same.
Frankly, there's too much excitement over nothing in your above quoted comment.
Russia has been claiming the front would collapse and the donbass army trapped in a pocket for months now. What would be expected with shattered morale…
Instead they are now fighting 3 weeks for severodonetsk.
Russia never officially gave such precise timetables. Donbas is home to the most fortified Ukrainian defense lines, manned by its most fanatical fighters. Hence the delay. I invite you recall this when it's over i.e. when Russia achieves to pierce through this line, which is simply a matter of time.
A man carries responsibilities for the actions they choose.
Its not fucking dominos with all fault landing on the one pushing the first stones and the others had “no choice but to fall”.
This invasion is a disgrace.
Indeed, NATO and its local collaborators carry the responsibility of leaving Russia with no option other than coercive measures in order to safeguard her security and territorial integrity.
Dont deflect. Just admit (sovjet) russia was many times more heavy handed in afghanistan
Just admit that against NATO occupiers, Afghan rebels didn't enjoy 5% of the international backing they did against the USSR, hence why the 1980's war was much more intensive and therefore led to more casualties as well.
Well the russians never admitted any fault. And now happily continue their actions of flattening cities and bombing hospitals (also in enormous numbers compared to even america)
Still the Soviets aren't relevant to the context of the discussed point.
Speaking of hospitals, one of the first targets hit by invading US forces in Fallujah, Iraq was the local hospital. Cruelty in its purest form.
Maybe iran should be part of a sunni dictatorship. Much more “stable” then this shia/sunni thing. You like stable dictators so im sure you are all for it.
1) You missed the point.
2) Iran is extremely stable, especially given the enemies she is facing.
3) There's no "Shia-Sunni thing" outside of misinformation and a simplistic but erroneous reading of regional affairs and conflicts.
And in another interview he had a different tune.
Besides, “nobody cares about the sovjets” right? And written promises (especially more recent and with the federation) supercede verbal statements.
Indeed, Soviets crimes in Ukraine have no bearing on the lawfulness of the Russian Federation's behaviour.
And hostile NATO encroachment along international borders was a threat to the USSR in its final years, it is even more of a threat to the Russian Federation.
Hell you know how many statements the sovjets broke back then hahahaha.
But no. Lets handpick this particular one as the “one ring to rule all promises”?
How is that relevant to the Russian Federation and its legitimate security concerns?
Yes. Thats exactly what the ukranians think after being used as toiletpaper too often by the russians.
Soviets weren't just composed of Russians.
Nato is a defensive alliance by the way.
Europe had record low military spending and readiness. There was little threat to russia and russia could have chosen diplomacy.
A so-called defensive alliance. Which specializes in initiating wars of aggression and triggering proxy conflicts.
Russia..i mean the “seperatists” causing the brunt of the civilian casualties.
I bet this claim originates from the regime in Kiev. But either way, the party which starts it is responsible for the war as per international law. And in the case at hand, we know which side that is (and why they did it).
Ofcourse this is very thin ice to justify a war of agression on. “Genocide” who are the russians kidding…
Wonder how Kiev justifies its foregoing war of aggression against the DPR and the LPR.
Very selective reading of that history might i add.
So much as to come to the conclusion that eastern europeans and ukranians shouldnt be so paranoid and embrace russias warm motherly bosom.
That's what the facts suggest to me, although I see no need for sarcastic phrasing.
That, or at least some form of neutrality between the west and Russia, coupled with constructive relations with both sides. Instead, these regimes chose to toe the NATO line and antagonize Russia for nothing. Well, guess they're enjoying the payback now.
I just think its presumptious to think you “know better” then millions of eastern europeans living through russian occupation and pressure.
Or than the millions of Germans who voted NSDAP in 1933...? We all have such beliefs.
In a way you think like an american…
They “knew better” too in trying to reshape the middle east and forcefully install democracy
Or like supporters of the current German regime. They "know better" than their forebears, about 44% of whom cast their vote for the NSDAP, wouldn't you say?
I am no fan of america.
Its misconduct Has little to do justifying russia trying to annex ukraine though.
It sure did. Like threatening Russia's security nearly on her entire western flank.
www.google.nl
