Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments

[Tamerlane]

Turks who led your Caliphate for maybe 500 years were largely Europeans, weren't they?

You can also try the Mongols/Chinese? Your new allies.

I have read how they plowed through Central Asia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, iran, Iraq, Anatolia, Syria with ease like an adult stealing a school child's candy or sth.

You were never good at warfighting. Closer to Indian or African level.

I do agree with many things you say. Yes, Turks were by and large Europeans in later years. But when they conquered Constantinople they were Turkic. The mongols ripped through Christian Europe as easily as Islamic lands.

You're pushing the Indian African comparison a bit too far. Muslims didn't conquer vast areas of the world by being pansies. Even today they'll give anyone a hard fight as soldiers. Technological development, however, is lacking.

This was the extent of Muslim conquests.

 

[tower9]

it was the Europeans who humiliated China first but it was the Japanese that did really lasting damage. even in 1885, 50 into the century of humiliation, China had a major ocean going navy armed with steel battleships and electrical power in the Beiyang Fleet. Chinese forged cannons and guns in Hanyang arsenal and shipbuilders in Jiangnan Shipyards.

Japan destroyed all that. After First Sino Japanese War, the Chinese navy never recovered until 1970's. Fucking 100 years of damage that it caused. Then Second Sino Japanese War in WW2 destroyed all the recovery.

This is why people don't blame Europeans as much as Japan. Europeans humiliated us but Japan kicked us when we were down.

The reality is that betrayal from your own is far worst than aggression from a stranger. The Europeans were strangers who preyed on China when it was weak. Japan learned civilization from China. China was the teacher and Japan was the student. That is why the betrayal hurts.

 

[thetutle]

what European countries would do if Russians thread to use their nukes if they don't free up their assets !? after all they don't have any legal basis for this rubbery ...

well , look like the arrogant westerns don't want to think about this at all !!

Good question. maybe Russia should try it. Hey France we will nuke you if you dont realise or money.

Why doesn't it say, hey America, every American will have to give half their salary to russia for 10 years or we will nuke you.

Thats gonna work well?

 

[iiowelo]

Bosnians received a very good deal from the west. We have a country in europe. something that not even the jews with all their money and power could do.

We also got a good deal from serbs. They recognised us, they have a population that has to live in our country. We have normal relations. This is a good deal. Maybe better than we deserve considering how idiotic and naive some of our population is.

Yes they genocided us. But we kept them as a little more than slaves for 350 years. We helped the Austrians destroy them and helped the nazis do genocide on them. So we don't expect any love. We get more love than we deserve I would say.



They we colonial subjects. They had little choice.

yes, exactly.

yes, pretty much. But also America did not allow them to remain a colonial power.

Azerbaijan recognising Israel and trading with them is no different than Pakistan or Saudi recognising Russia and trading with russia. Except that Israel has stolen much less land from muslim and killed infinitely less muslims than russia.

Israel occupies Al Aqsa, the third holiest mosque in Islam. That is the root of the conflict.

That was why OIc was formed. Because Jews burned/vandalized Al Aqsa mosque.

I talked about Bosnians getting a good deal from the Serbs. So you have no problem with the way Serbs treated you?

Russia never in its history started a worldwide war on Islam.

Anglo Saxons did after 2000.

I think @Tamerlane is referring to that.

Russia mowing through Europe/ West thus benefits most Muslims. Only the Turks who had beef with Russians and Chinese, simultaneously, think differently.

Not surprisingly the same Turkish race is found hob nobbing with Israel. They were the first to reconigze Israel, side with Israel.

There is not a single Muslim country that refused to recognize Russia.

Compare that with Israel. No comparison, really.

If you think about it, if the Turks are eliminated from Earth, nobody in the world will miss them, and certainly not Muslims. Then Russians and Chinese can enjoy great relations with most other Muslims.

But even if Arabs or Middle Easterners are all eliminaetd, a much harder task, since the Anglos started a global total war on Islam including media campaign, dehumanization, destabilization of Muslim countries, sanction, propaganda and invasion, killing, mass murder, beyond the wider middle East too, it is fair to say, Muslims outside the Middle East will also oppose the Anglos.

On balance, it seems that Russia+China axis will gain more supporters among muslims (except the accursed Turks), but Anglos can find no takers except the same Turks who also hobnob with Israelis.

Sounds like a fair deal.

So long as China and Russia complete their mission with the Turks among their midst, they can build up cordial ties with other Muslims and most Muslims will welcome that development.

Good question. maybe Russia should try it. Hey France we will nuke you if you dont realise or money.

Why doesn't it say, hey America, every American will have to give half their salary to russia for 10 years or we will nuke you.

Thats gonna work well?

I don't believe Russians have the courage to do that. Most Europeans are not fanatics like Middle Easterners. But better at warfare, maybe due to higher IQ and civilization or work ethic or genes.

The moment you bring out the big guns most Europeans/Americans will go quiet. It's in the genes I'd say.

 

[F-22Raptor]

Retired Gen. David Petraeus said that it's "not entirely" surprising to see Russian military forces encounter difficulties while invading Ukraine, pointing out that the Russians are "just surprisingly unprofessional," according to CNN.

During an interview with the network last week, Petraeus — a former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) director who led the 101st Airborne Division during the War in Iraq in 2003 and commanded US forces in Afghanistan — spoke of how the sustained Ukrainian resistance has impeded Moscow's plans for a straightforward occupation.

In pointing out the source of Russia's stumbles, Petraeus noted that Ukrainians have been relentless in their attempts to protect their country.

"There are many reasons for the Russians' abysmal performance. ... [T]hey're fighting against a very determined, quite capable Ukrainian force that is composed of special ops, conventional forces, territorial forces and even private citizens, all of whom are determined not to allow Russia to achieve its objectives," he told the network.

He continued: "They are fighting for their national survival, their homeland and their way of life, and they have the home-field advantage, knowing the terrain and communities."

Petraeus then picked apart the Russian military operation in Ukraine, which has already displaced 6.5 million people throughout the country and led to the departure of another 3.2 million individuals, according to the United Nations migration agency.

"They clearly have very poor standards when it comes to performing basic tactical tasks such as achieving combined arms operations, involving armor, infantry, engineers, artillery and mortars," he said in describing the Russian forces to CNN. "They are very poor at maintaining their vehicles and weapon systems and have abandoned many of them. They are also poor at resupply and logistical tasks."

He emphasized: "We have known for decades that the Soviet system, now the Russian system, has always lacked one of the key strengths of US and Western militaries, which is a strong, professional non-commissioned officer corps."

Petraeus went on to note that Russia's weaponry paled in comparison to the tools utilized by the US military.

"The Russians just have relatively unimpressive equipment, given the investment supposedly made over the past decade or so," he told CNN. "They certainly don't have equipment comparable to what the United States has."

The retired general said that Russia's precision munitions were not accurate, noting that the country didn't cut off Ukrainian airport runways after initially invading the country, similar to what the US did after the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"We can also see this with the sheer frequency of the Russians hitting civilian infrastructure, like the hospital in Mariupol, other medical facilities and the government center in Kharkiv — unless they truly meant to hit those targets, which obviously would be nothing short of horrific," he told the network.

The former intelligence chief also said that Russia's cyberwarfare capacity this year was "unimpressive," adding that the country has "been unable to take down the Ukrainian command and control system."

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has continued to utilize his social media accounts to communicate with world about the war on the ground in his country.

Petraeus articulated that Russia underestimated what it would take to control Kyiv and replace the Ukrainian government with one that would be loyal to their country.

"In every single area of evaluation, the Russians, starting with their intelligence assessments and understanding of the battlefield and their adversary, and then every aspect of the campaign, all the way down to small unit operations, have proved woefully inadequate," he said.

He added: "Much of the population also hate the Russians, and that hatred is being deepened with every strike on civilian infrastructure. Not only are the Russians not winning hearts and minds, they are alienating hearts and minds."

Petraeus: Russia has been 'surprisingly unprofessional' in Ukraine invasion

"They clearly have very poor standards when it comes to performing basic tactical tasks such as achieving combined arms operations," David Petraeus told CNN.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[tower9]

Israel occupies Al Aqsa, the third holiest mosque in Islam. That is the root of the conflict.

That was why OIc was formed. Because Jews burned/vandalized Al Aqsa mosque.

I talked about Bosnians getting a good deal from the Serbs. So you have no problem with the way Serbs treated you?

Russia never in its history started a worldwide war on Islam.

Anglo Saxons did after 2000.

I think @Tamerlane is referring to that.

Russia mowing through Europe/ West thus benefits most Muslims. Only the Turks who had beef with Russians and Chinese, simultaneously, think differently.

Not surprisingly the same Turkish race is found hob nobbing with Israel. They were the first to reconigze Israel, side with Israel.

There is not a single Muslim country that refused to recognize Russia.

Compare that with Israel. No comparison, really.

If you think about it, if the Turks are eliminated from Earth, nobody in the world will miss them, and certainly not Muslims. Then Russians and Chinese can enjoy great relations with most other Muslims.

But even if Arabs or Middle Easterners are all eliminaetd, a much harder task, since the Anglos started a global total war on Islam including media campaign, dehumanization, destabilization of Muslim countries, sanction, propaganda and invasion, killing, mass murder, beyond the wider middle East too, it is fair to say, Muslims outside the Middle East will also oppose the Anglos.

On balance, it seems that Russia+China axis will gain more supporters among muslims (except the accursed Turks), but Anglos can find no takers except the same Turks who also hobnob with Israelis.

Sounds like a fair deal.

So long as China and Russia complete their mission with the Turks among their midst, they can build up cordial ties with other Muslims and most Muslims will welcome that development.

Central Asia has always been a battleground of empires. It's just that the different Turkic tribes lived in the expanse of it, so they were always involved with either conquest or being conquered. This has little to do with them being Muslim as this was the case before they were even Muslim. Xinjiang was first incorporated into China in 200 BC. 200 BC. Think about that. During times when China collapsed, it lost control of Xinjiang, and when China was strong, it regained control of it. For a long period, Xinjiang was a Buddhist stronghold. Later on, it became Islamic due to conquest. In the 17th century, the Qing Dynasty regained control of that region and actually did so by getting a lot of the Muslim Turkic tribes on their side fighting against the Mongol Dzungars, who occupied Northern Xinjiang.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

The reality is that betrayal from your own is far worst than aggression from a stranger. The Europeans were strangers who preyed on China when it was weak. Japan learned civilization from China. China was the teacher and Japan was the student. That is why the betrayal hurts.

yep, and they betrayed China in such a way that it did the maximum possible damage. In fact it can be said that they're still stabbing us diplomatically and politically.

Meanwhile I just don't think about Europeans at the moment. They lost their colonial empires, they have no natural resources, they're behind in software and electronics, their populations and economies are declining.

Global financial crisis exposed that European social democracy produced equal or worse economic results from American neoliberalism. COVID exposed that "European quality" and "fairness" produced equal or worse health results from American individualism. I just can't see Europe as being particularly menacing to China.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The reality is that betrayal from your own is far worst than aggression from a stranger. The Europeans were strangers who preyed on China when it was weak. Japan learned civilization from China. China was the teacher and Japan was the student. That is why the betrayal hurts.

In fact, Japan did try to attack China many times in the past.

The first time was the 7th century, when Japan was still a primitive nation compared to the mighty Tang Dynasty. After that battle, they officially became China's student.

The second time was the late 16th century, although the Ming Dynasty was past its prime, still managed to beat Japan's attempt to annex Korea, then eventually used it as an outpost to attack China.

The third time was the late 19th century with a weakened Qing Dynasty, and they succeeded.

That's why their goal always remains the same, to study from China, then to beat China in its own game.

 

[tower9]

In fact, Japan did try to attack China many times in the past.

The first time was the 7th century, when Japan was still a primitive nation compared to the mighty Tang Dynasty. After that battle, they officially became China's student.

The second time was the late 16th century, although the Ming Dynasty was past its prime, still managed to beat Japan's attempt to annex Korea, then eventually used it as an outpost to attack China.

The third time was the late 19th century with a weakened Qing Dynasty, and they succeeded.

That's why their goal always remains the same, to study from China, then to beat China in its own game.

They tried the same thing with the West and got BTFO. Now they worship the West.

Goes to show you what their national character is. Always ready to betray you but will kiss your feet after you beat the shit out of them.

 

[iiowelo]

Central Asia has always been a battleground of empires. It's just that the different Turkic tribes lived in the expanse of it, so they were always involved with either conquest or being conquered. This has little to do with them being Muslim as this was the case before they were even Muslim. Xinjiang was first incorporated into China in 200 BC. 200 BC. Think about that. During times when China collapsed, it lost control of Xinjiang, and when China was strong, it regained control of it. For a long period, Xinjiang was a Buddhist stronghold. Later on, it became Islamic due to conquest. In the 17th century, the Qing Dynasty regained control of that region and actually did so by getting a lot of the Muslim Turkic tribes on their side fighting against the Mongol Dzungars, who occupied Northern Xinjiang.

This is entirely off topic but good to know.

Going by that self proclaimed bosnian person's idea, it's not a bad deal at all if China and Russia wipes off all Turkics from planet Earth so long as they do not declare a total war against Islam, worldwide, like the Anglos have done post 2001.

They tried the same thing with the West and got BTFO. Now they worship the West.

Goes to show you what their national character is. Always ready to betray you but will kiss your feet after you beat the shit out of them.

It also goes to show that an elite East Asian nation like Japan has been enslaved for more than 7 decades by Western civilization. I see it as clear sign of Western superiority.

 

[F-22Raptor]

This thread has gone way off topic. Chinas humiliation will come, but save it for a future thread. Russias humiliation is here and now.

 

[letsrock]

I think there may be some truth to it. Genetically inferior civilizations clustering closer to Indians or Africans are predisposed to being conquered by superior civilizations with greater warlike characteristics and greater propensity to dispense violence in a systematic manner.

With exactly similar arguments the nazi went conquering the russians and had their asses handed over. "genetically inferior" - really?

 

[iiowelo]

I do agree with many things you say. Yes, Turks were by and large Europeans in later years. But when they conquered Constantinople they were Turkic. The mongols ripped through Christian Europe as easily as Islamic lands.

You're pushing the Indian African comparison a bit too far. Muslims didn't conquer vast areas of the world by being pansies. Even today they'll give anyone a hard fight as soldiers. Technological development, however, is lacking.

This was the extent of Muslim conquests.

Where did you get this map from? Muslims never ruled all of Russia. Sorry, not buying it.

And this was the extent of all Muslim empires - ever - not at a given time.

Mongols or Brits at a given time had a much wider, larger empire.

The Mongols only reached Eastern Europe.

Here is an uncomfortable fact for you. Nobody from the middle east, north africa, central asia, balkans, or south asia, africa, south east asia could ever - ever in history - conquer Rome, the current capital of Italy. never.

Not anybody from East Asia either.

Africans and Indians are better today at certain aspects. Africans have won approval of Western elites so much so that not getting preferential treatment is equated with racism, which is also a big no-no as approved by Western ruling elites (mostly Jews or aligned).

Indians are also highly favoured as code-coolies, loyal colonial underlings like during the heydays of the British empire.

You can't compare that with Muslims who are treated with aggression and unfairness all over the world, even in their own countries, by the same Anglos.

So I agree with you that Russia plowing through Europe and the West is a good thing for Muslims. The only Muslims who complain are Turkic kind, who abandon Islam at the drop of a hat, drink alcohol aplenty, are avowedly secular, hobnob with Israel and justify it but then create a ruckus when Muslims want to align with Russia and China to confront the West because they are too backward and dumb to do so on their own.

I mean you don't get to be conquered by Romans 2000 years ago, long before Industrial Revolution, if you are not inferior. At least the Chinese have an excuse that they were never dominated by Europeans before Industrial Revolution. Never, ever, in history. Not in 5000 years of history.

This thread has gone way off topic. Chinas humiliation will come, but save it for a future thread. Russias humiliation is here and now.

Russians have performed better than Americans.

At least we haven't seen a single Russian overhyped stealth aircraft shot down by a very large and well equipped country like Ukraine.

Tiny Serbia shot down much vaunted stealth aircraft F-117 nighthawk. and reports of shooting down B-2 stealth bomber spirit of missouri also circulated. If that did happen, it's understandable why Americans would deny that.

Getting much vaunted stealth aircraft shot down by Serbia 25 years ago is much worse performance.

 

[letsrock]

I see what you are saying. but you can only believe that if you know nothing go world history or Russian history.

Whenever "anglo-zionists" had conquered muslims inhabited lands. they have given those people at least formal independence. Not. a bad deal for a people completely conquered by he west.

Whenever Russia conquered muslim inhabited lands they exterminate the population and make the land a part of russia. to such an extent that the rest of the muslim world dont even know those were ever muslim lands. It becomes a rumour. a point of historical dispute.

You rightly criticise the west for its failures, but they have conquered the muslim civilisation in 1918 and destroyed the caliphate and could have wiped the muslims out like they did with the American Indians, or how russia did with its muslims in muslim lands. Muslims have a pretty good deal with the west right now, as a conquered people. Hopefully with a nuclear armed Pakistan and turkey, this civilisation can be revived and completely freed. But that requires a lot of work.

Very interesting - muslims must be grateful because they were not wiped out like American Indians? that is your standard for gratitude ? I suppose thats why you are so sympathtic to nazis because they directly did not kill your ancestors when they could have done so. what logic really.

Soviets indeed absorbed occupied lands because they saw them as equal peoples. infact soviet policy encouraged inter-marriage between russians and other nationalities. No signs of "dogs and indians/blacks/irish" not allowed.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

This thread has gone way off topic. Chinas humiliation will come, but save it for a future thread. Russias humiliation is here and now.

lol, we'll see who gets humiliated in the end.

as for now, Russian ultimatum has been rejected.

So... we'll see what happens.