Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

[aziqbal]

simple:
If you shamelessly lie or throw around logical fallacies I will point this out.



Hmm debatable. arabs really come close with all their slavetrade (only stopped by the west) and genocides and minority right abuses

And people and cultures can develop and change over time:
See currently:

Human rights and rule of law index by country, around the world | TheGlobalEconomy.com

The average for 2024 based on 175 countries was 5.42 index points. The highest value was in Iran: 10 index points and the lowest value was in Iceland: 0.2 index points. The indicator is available from 2007 to 2024. Below is a chart for all countries where data are available.

www.theglobaleconomy.com

europe has the best human rights record in modern times. By a large margin often.
Facts….


For you its not just whataboutism fallacies.
It is whataboutisms about things 50-500 years ago

“Ukranians must suffer because whatabout great britain in 1800”

but i am done trying to discuss logic or morals with you.
Just stick to the facts and spare us the worst of the russian propaganda.

Arabs enslaved 40 million blacks over 400 year period ?

Where is the proof ? Or is this is simply a LIE

 

[Deino]

Arabs enslaved 40 million blacks over 400 year period ?

Where is the proof ? Or is this is simply a LIE

Where is your proof that Russia does not attack civilians and in return that - based on your excuse - each house in every destroyed city was in fact a hidden secret military installation?

Or is this also just a lie?

... and strangely in Syria it looks almost the same! But you stick to "mother Russia" is always right?

You are really such a liar!

 

[Viet]

What mistakes?

Only reason Biden was elected (assuming it wasn't fraudulent) was because he sold the people that he would stop COVID and that Trump can't do that, but the worst of COVID was under his presidency and he didn't do shit to change anything, just waited it through.

The same thing happened in my country with Netanyahu, media accused the government of acting poorly while Israel actually acted and was more prepared than most other countries.


Trump isn't going to start a nuclear war.
Well aside from the fact he threatened to destroy North Korea, but it turned out nicely with Trump being the first president on North Korean soil.

Netanyahu is too old. There should be age limit for politicians. Also, 10y term limit should be imposed.

Look Putin. Over 20y in power now. He probably has nothing else to do so he starts a war. Same for Xi. Nothing to do. He adds one more dash to 9-dash so we now have 10-dash. When they get older, they go all-in.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Russia is still going bankrupt.

Could have been years earlier if it wasn't for Europe buying Russian gas.

Trump did not provide aid, he sold stuff. He likes to sell stuff.

That's your own source.
Trump definitely sent them aid. Selling them weapons is enough proof he isn't a Russian puppet anyway.

You adapt your defense budget according to expected threats. The US certainly does not spend as much as it did during the Cold War. It has a defense budget of 3,75% of GDP and spends the lion part in the Pacific. It probably spends less than most NATO countries on NATO issues.

You can claim that other NATO countries underspend when Russia invades a NATO country. It may be so that NATO benefits from making sure its main adversaries should not be able to invade its neighbours, but that was never agreed.

Theoretically speaking, when Russia invades NATO, if European spending was not adequate, it would be too late to complain.

The US had to be the backbone of the Europe to compensate for European weakness. And look, US is responsible for more than a half of Ukraine's arms. US is burdened by the underspending of the Europeans, and the Europeans are at fault for deciding to laugh at Trump instead of boosting their defense budget and stopping their reliance on Russian gas exports.

To support the war, Britain spent 53% of its GDP on military expense during WWII.
You can always spend more and You will always have too little in a war.
Even the US with a huge defense budget cannot provide unlimited ammunition.
Russia seems to have problems after eating up a large part of their stock.

You can't say that. The more you are prepared the better. The less you prepare, the more lives are lost in the future.

Europeans slacked on their defense budgets and the price they pay is that they don't have enough arms to give to Ukraine. Had you prepared adequately, you could have given them hundreds of brand new tanks way earlier into the war. Longer range air defenses.

I don’t know about others, but Sweden has shipped less than 10%…

How many artillery systems do you have left? What about NLAWs, RBS70s? What was the impact on active duty artillery forces?

This summarizes his worldwide reputation.

I'm sure that's what leftist media showcases.

No it hasn’t. It has less than 20,000 combat troops in Europe, even with the reinforcements sent by Biden. The rest are logistics. Finland can muster 800,000 if they mobilize.

That's still 100,000 people, that cost 15 billion dollars annually just to keep alive.

How many active combat troops do you think Germany has? In every military there's always around 1:4 or 1:3 combat to non-combat personnel.

Why?
It did not ”ship” anything during Trumps time, the Javelins were sold.

What do you mean why? If Ukraine had 5000 Javelins before the invasion, Russian tanks would have suffered way more during it.

Netanyahu is too old. There should be age limit for politicians. Also, 10y term limit should be imposed.

Look Putin. Over 20y in power now. He probably has nothing else to do so he starts a war. Same for Xi. Nothing to do. He adds one more dash to 9-dash so we now have 10-dash. When they get older, they go all-in.

Netanyahu isn't too old lol.
Why? Netanyahu is democratically elected. It's our decision who to vote for.

Israel is not a dictatorship like Russia or China, the prime minister doesn't have that much power to decide alone.

 

[OIO]

the european countries should take its own security more serious.

This topic is very unclear.

Will the EU disintegrate? Are you talking about European countries as a whole or individually? Who will lead as a whole in what name? As individuals, which countries can defend their own security and which cannot? What about countries that cannot defend themselves?

Finally, do the European countries you mentioned include Russia and Belarus?

 

[RoadAmerica]

Yeah, because Trump was in on it with Putin.

Trump: ‘Used to talk about’ Ukraine invasion with Putin​

Trump: ‘Used to talk about’ Ukraine invasion with Putin

Nearly under his breath, former President Donald trump said that he and Russian leader Vladimir Putin “used to talk about” Moscow’s intention to launch another invasion in Ukraine.

www.politico.com

Trump did not warn about an planned invasion of Europe. Told Europe to rearm and get energy security for "see I told you so".

Trump’s (and Putin’s) Plan to Dissolve the EU and NATO.​

Trump’s (and Putin’s) Plan to Dissolve the EU and NATO.

Most people in this country, certainly most members of the political class and especially its expression in Washington, don’t realize what Donald Trump is trying to do in Europe and Russia.

talkingpointsmemo.com

Former National Security Advisor John Bolton says 'Putin was waiting' for Trump to withdraw the United States from NATO in his second term​

Former National Security Advisor John Bolton says 'Putin was waiting' for Trump to withdraw the United States from NATO in his second term

Bolton, who once worked for Trump, also said the former president's "main interest" in Ukraine was trying to "find Hillary Clinton's computer server."

www.businessinsider.com

A masked bank robber to get an alibi would tell the bank days before robbing it to beef up security. When they don't beef up security, he robs the bank. Later, if asked if he robbed the bank, he says, "No, I warned them they needed more security, I am the hero". Then after robbing the bank, weeks, months later go to the same bank and tell them "see I told you so".

Trump had pre-knowledge of the Putin attack on Europe. Told Europe exactly what to do to save itself, then watched, covertly cheering for Putin with Tucker and Ultra MAGA. Trump knew the entire script, and wanted to be seen as "smart" so told the Europeans the solution knowing the Europeans would probably not listen.

Seriously John Bolton? Didn’t you just get done saying you were anti imperialism?
Tds is strong

Noone sane has any respect for Trump.
He is clearly a Putin puppet.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia/index.html

You mean the Trump that blocked sending arms to Ukraine approved by Congress?


Trump wanted Europeans to increase their budget and spend the fresh money on buying US arms. When Europeans indicated increased budgets would be used to buy European arms he had a fit of rage.

He also wanted Europe to buy US LNG.

He showed total lack of understanding of how NATO economics work, and what was agreed.

In all honesty US Lng was and still is the best and cheapest option.
As far as arms go, Europe should be allowed to buy the best for their money, unfortunately Europe doesn’t compete well.

Trump was a businessman and put Americans interests first. As an American I fully approve and sure seems like many other Americans agree.

 

[RoadAmerica]

Trump approved the delivery of Javelins to Ukraine after he met Putin in person. Trump realized Putin is a hooligan. A man he can’t trust. The former president Obama refused the weapon out of fear of Russian anger. That just proves again any appeasement towards aggression will bear terrible outcome. Without Javelins Ukraine could never stop Russia tank assault on Kiev.

Wishing Trump return to power is like wishing a nuclear war.

Not sure history agrees, the Korean Peninsula was a lot safer when trump was in office.
Don’t forget the only president not to start a war….a least in my lifetime

 

[Beny Karachun]

Hmm, that copy and paste got screwed up… it looks like my comments are made by Beny.

Lmao weird

 

[RoadAmerica]

Just a nonsensical lie by the democrats, Trump being a "Russian puppet" and "Russian election meddling" my ***.

He's not a Putin puppet. If anyone was stupid enough to be Russia's puppet, it would have been the Europeans for being dependent on Russian gas.


During Trump administration, war was not forseeable, giving Ukraine weapons without an indication for war would be considered an act of aggression.
Giving them weapons with an indication for war would be a smart thing to do.

Biden took his time, the only western weapons available to Ukraine initially were a few Carl Gustaffs and NLAWs while America had indications about the war months before it started.

During the stupid Democrats administration, everything went to shit. Ukraine-Russia war, inflation, North Korea started launching rockets again, China is acting aggressive on Taiwan, and generally people think the US is a joke.

Europeans didn't increase budgets, that's what he was angry about, and it took the Ukraine war, well after his presidency, to start increasing their budget seriously.

About the gas, Europeans made an absolutely foolish decision and they mocked Trump for thinking correctly, had they bought gas from the US you wouldn't have paid 1000 dollars for turning on a LED lightbulb for 5 seconds during 2022 winter.

Buying Russian gas for tens of billions of dollars while having the US spend tens of billions of dollars annually simply on the deployment of soldiers in Europe to defend against Russia.

Remember it was Europe that funded Russia even throughout the war by buying Russian gas at stupidly high prices.

Looks like someone else has been paying attention to geopolitics for past coupe decades

But orange man bad is so much easier for those who lack critical thinking abilities.

Trump has business links to Russia but he is not corrupt. He threatened North Korea with nuclear war. He would do it. There is no doubt. As president he has in the hands.
He imposed sanctions and tariffs on China after he met communist leader Xi Jinping in Beijing. Although the Chinese tried all means to honey him. There is no doubt, either Trump would wage a total war against China, Russia and North Korea.

Walk softly but carry a big stick.
The only difference was he let everyone know he had the big stick and wasn’t afraid to use it.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Lmao weird

I prepared a long answer and when pressing ”save”, I got a security warning, which happens when it takes too long to answer. I cut the answer, refreshed the page and pasted, ending up with a mess. Here is a clean version. The other deleted.

Could have been years earlier if it wasn't for Europe buying Russian gas.


That's your own source.
Trump definitely sent them aid. Selling them weapons is enough proof he isn't a Russian puppet anyway.

Selling stuff is not ”providing aid”

Theoretically speaking, when Russia invades NATO, if European spending was not adequate, it would be too late to complain.

Russia quite apparently does not have the logistical means to invade NATO.
Your hypotethical scenario is therefore of no value.
If the solar system was engulfed in a supernova, it would also be too late.
That does not mean that we need to prepare for a supernova.

The US had to be the backbone of the Europe to compensate for European weakness. And look, US is responsible for more than a half of Ukraine's arms. US is burdened by the underspending of the Europeans, and the Europeans are at fault for deciding to laugh at Trump instead of boosting their defense budget and stopping their reliance on Russian gas exports.

The US GDP is $26 trillions
The EU GDP is $14 trillions
Still the aid to Ukraine is about the same, with more focus on military equipment from the US.

You can't say that. The more you are prepared the better. The less you prepare, the more lives are lost in the future.

Europeans slacked on their defense budgets and the price they pay is that they don't have enough arms to give to Ukraine. Had you prepared adequately, you could have given them hundreds of brand new tanks way earlier into the war. Longer range air defenses.

Sweden alone has given more tanks than the US,

How many artillery systems do you have left? What about NLAWs, RBS70s? What was the impact on active duty artillery forces?

All the Artillery systems were surplus, due to Norway backing off the project.
No units of the Swedish Army were affected.

Sweden shipped 15,000 AT-4s out of a million produced. Most of course shipped to the US, or license produced there.

RBS70 was taken from storage.

I'm sure that's what leftist media showcases.

View attachment 951706
That's still 100,000 people, that cost 15 billion dollars annually just to keep alive.

And a lot of them are not there to defend Europe but to support US activities in the Middle East.

How many active combat troops do you think Germany has? In every military there's always around 1:4 or 1:3 combat to non-combat personnel.

Germany is a special case since they are limited by a treaty with the victory powers of WWII which they needed to sign in order to be allow to reunite.
Still the Bundeswehr is twice the size of all the US forces in Europe or 183,000.
The French armed forces are around 200,000.
The British are 150,000.
Poland 180,000.
Italy 165,000
Spain 120,000
Greece 200,000
Turkey 775,000

so the US is providing around 100,000 out of 2-3 million troops.

What do you mean why? If Ukraine had 5000 Javelins before the invasion, Russian tanks would have suffered way more during it.

Apparently the shipments were fast enough to put a stop to the Russians.
If it was such a good idea, why did Trump not give the 800 Javelins instead of charging $200M for them?

 

[RoadAmerica]

With a guy that follows the advice of the guy last speaking to him, you bet…


Trump did not provide aid, he sold stuff. He likes to sell stuff.




Russia is still going bankrupt.




You adapt your defense budget according to expected threats. The US certainly does not spend as much as it did during the Cold War. It has a defense budget of 3,75% of GDP and spends the lion part in the Pacific. It probably spends less than most NATO countries on NATO issues.

You can claim that other NATO countries underspend when Russia invades a NATO country. It may be so that NATO benefits from making sure its main adversaries should not be able to invade its neighbours, but that was never agreed.



To support the war, Britain spent 53% of its GDP on military expense during WWII.
You can always spend more and You will always have too little in a war.
Even the US with a huge defense budget cannot provide unlimited ammunition.
Russia seems to have problems after eating up a large part of their stock.

I don’t know about others, but Sweden has shipped less than 10%…



View attachment 951688

This summarizes his worldwide reputation.



No it hasn’t. It has less than 20,000 combat troops in Europe, even with the reinforcements sent by Biden. The rest are logistics. Finland can muster 800,000 if they mobilize.



Why?
It did not ”ship” anything during Trumps time, the Javelins were sold.

I remember that picture, it’s from London. If memory serves me correct there were hardly a few thousand snowflakes out that day, not much of a showing for the most laughed at president.

As for nato they’ve underspend for decades, can’t blame trump for being upset. As we’ve seen from history Europe failed to prepare then cried for their brother across the pond to come save them. Sorry everything costs money.

 

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699825185845555568

 

[MeFishToo]

This topic is very unclear.

Will the EU disintegrate? Are you talking about European countries as a whole or individually? Who will lead as a whole in what name? As individuals, which countries can defend their own security and which cannot? What about countries that cannot defend themselves?

Finally, do the European countries you mentioned include Russia and Belarus?

The EU can disintegrate all it wants. Its not a defensive alliance.
Im talking about European NATO countries basically reducing military budgets since the early 90s because of this strange idea that no military threats would arise in the future. And if threats emerge we would have 10 years to rearm.. Maybe someone does know 10 years in advance, but certainly none is going to take this person serious.
The european part of NATO could and should be able to handle the russian threat itself.

 

[MeFishToo]

The Gepards doing what they were designed to do 50 years ago. No need to reinvent the wheel.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699776042456457424

 

[Vergennes]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699850184367194286