Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

[Paul2]

@waz @LeGenD @The Eagle

Can we make a separate 3rd part of this thread?

 

[The SC]

Donbass Zugzwang | Tactical Group "Maroon" VS Storm-Z. Military Summary And Analysis For 2023.05.27​

 

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662585307269570560

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662586176610369541

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662586824001191936

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662589977492848641

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662593642383507457

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662596542820220928

 

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662608830922981376

 

[aviator_fan]

and attackers are not actually need to prove anything as long as a certain percentage of a certain country power grid is offline


my guess is as always the demand in warmer weather are less , they wait for winter to come back


more precisely the ship is some times working and many more time being tugged around , it all depend on time.
in short if you want to destroy its fighting capabilities there is no need to go to the trouble and attack the carrier with the hardship that inherently come for disabling them , just destroy the tug , mission accomplished.

All this proof business is hogwash. Only people on this forum even care about proof and potentially in twitter verse (where I discontinued my use) where all garbage from both sides is floating.

Ultimately, straight targeting of cities does not break morale of any country , and attacking civilians does not change trajectory of the war, specially indiscriminate bombing. It happened when the Germans were attacking London in WWII. When US B-52s attacked Hanoi, in theory attacking infrastructure but from 30K feet and dumb bombs, they are more likely to kill civilians than destroy infrastructure.

Same thing in Iran and Iraq war when both countries were lobbying surface to surface missiles at each other.

A few points here to proof something is not needed. Only the US has felt the need to prove something, starting Desert Storm. I think because pressure of being democracy, in order to mobilize support in its own population so support for whatever war it was continued from its larger population. Its a PR game

Yes money is money. money doesn’t stink. The problem with that argument is China buys less than China + Europe combined. Don’t forget the Chinese buy cheaper than used to be because Russia lost leverage. You can see that when Russia PM visits China. The Chinese refused to conclude a long term energy deal.

Chinese know the longer they wait the cheaper they can buy from Russia. Same for India. They wait until Putin gets desperate and sells oil and gas at every price.

China has Russia by the b**ls and while friendly overtones because both don't like western policies is really out to avenge Soviets breaking its ties with China in the 50s when they thought the Soviet style of communism was better than Chinese.

China is prioritizing its Central Asia pipeline over Russian overtures for Siberia 2 and will keep Russia waiting.

China prioritising Turkmenistan over Russia in next big pipeline project

China is accelerating the building of a long-delayed Central Asian pipeline to source gas from Turkmenistan even as Russia pushes its own new Siberian connection, as Beijing juggles its energy security needs with diplomatic priorities.

www.reuters.com

Remember last year ppl in pdf was jumping up and down Europe will be in dark lol

Russian gas stop is end of Europe lmao

Same will happen with oil price as well

It will go below 65, world is wash with oil

I think it was more hoping that western europe exceptionalism suffers a bit because everybody else in the world suffers but somehow Europe does not. That was the emotion of 'jumping up and down' vs. on any facts.

I had to go briefly to Nordic country in October. Outside restaurant tables in 5 degree temps and were running heat lamps. Thats the height of not going into dark. Its almost a waste of energy but it makes the point that people felt they should enjoy the view outside and eat and smoke under a heated lamp vs make the minor adjustment and not eat outside in early winter.

 

[Soldier35]

Published footage of the impact of the Russian kamikaze drone "Lancet" in the new Ukrainian MLRS "Bureviy" near Artemovsk. MLRS "Bureviy" with a caliber of 220 mm, placed on the Tatra T815-7 chassis and put into service in 2022. The MLRS was designed to replace the Soviet Uragan MLRS, the MLRS firing range is up to 65 km. Technical information about it is on the channel. As a result of the impact of the drone "Lancet", the rockets detonated in the MLRS "Bureviy".

 

[Viet]

All this proof business is hogwash. Only people on this forum even care about proof and potentially in twitter verse (where I discontinued my use) where all garbage from both sides is floating.

Ultimately, straight targeting of cities does not break morale of any country , and attacking civilians does not change trajectory of the war, specially indiscriminate bombing. It happened when the Germans were attacking London in WWII. When US B-52s attacked Hanoi, in theory attacking infrastructure but from 30K feet and dumb bombs, they are more likely to kill civilians than destroy infrastructure.

Same thing in Iran and Iraq war when both countries were lobbying surface to surface missiles at each other.

A few points here to proof something is not needed. Only the US has felt the need to prove something, starting Desert Storm. I think because pressure of being democracy, in order to mobilize support in its own population so support for whatever war it was continued from its larger population. Its a PR game


China has Russia by the b**ls and while friendly overtones because both don't like western policies is really out to avenge Soviets breaking its ties with China in the 50s when they thought the Soviet style of communism was better than Chinese.

China is prioritizing its Central Asia pipeline over Russian overtures for Siberia 2 and will keep Russia waiting.

China prioritising Turkmenistan over Russia in next big pipeline project

China is accelerating the building of a long-delayed Central Asian pipeline to source gas from Turkmenistan even as Russia pushes its own new Siberian connection, as Beijing juggles its energy security needs with diplomatic priorities.

www.reuters.com

I think it was more hoping that western europe exceptionalism suffers a bit because everybody else in the world suffers but somehow Europe does not. That was the emotion of 'jumping up and down' vs. on any facts.

I had to go briefly to Nordic country in October. Outside restaurant tables in 5 degree temps and were running heat lamps. Thats the height of not going into dark. Its almost a waste of energy but it makes the point that people felt they should enjoy the view outside and eat and smoke under a heated lamp vs make the minor adjustment and not eat outside in early winter.

China now relies on Russia for 5 percent of gas imports. the Russians trying to sell more to Chinese, that will increase the share to 20 percent. The question is how stable is the unlimited friendship? Putin now plays the map of 18 century to redefine the borders. Who knows, in one year he will come up with a map of 15 century. Europe learns a hard lesson in relying too much on Russia for energy imports. Chinese should take a note.

Putin is a psychopath.

 

[Hack-Hook]

China now relies on Russia for 5 percent of gas imports. the Russians trying to sell more to Chinese, that will increase the share to 20 percent. The question is how stable is the unlimited friendship? Putin now plays the map of 18 century to redefine the borders. Who knows, in one year he will come up with a map of 15 century. Europe learns a hard lesson in relying too much on Russia for energy imports. Chinese should take a note.

Putin is a psychopath.

yeah we knew if they rely too much on Russia Gas then Ukraine and Poland come and the detonate the pipe line

 

[Viet]

yeah we knew if they rely too much on Russia Gas then Ukraine and Poland come and the detonate the pipe line

There is no proof that Ukraine, Poland did it. And even if they did then they did a favor for Russia. Putin himself said he was ok if “their” penis (Europeans) is frozen.

 

[Hack-Hook]

There is no proof that Ukraine, Poland did it. And even if they did then they did a favor for Russia. Putin himself said he was ok if “their” penis (Europeans) is frozen.

for the favor Germany is in recession , and industries leaving it . i say a favor to China an USA

 

[Viet]

for the favor Germany is in recession , and industries leaving it . i say a favor to China an USA

The problem with Germany is there are too many fanatics, they do politics based on ideology, for instance, the greens.

I am in Norway. If you have ever asked where all money go? Norway has replaced Russia as biggest exporter of gas to Germany. The Norwegen have too much money they even don’t know what with the money.

Norway has oil and gas in abundance they have electricity in surplus they have more electric cars than any other country in Europe they even light up the pavement.

 

[Vergennes]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662719485575405569

Reported increased attacks against Russian artillery all over the front.

 

[LeGenD]

Ultimately, straight targeting of cities does not break morale of any country , and attacking civilians does not change trajectory of the war, specially indiscriminate bombing. It happened when the Germans were attacking London in WWII. When US B-52s attacked Hanoi, in theory attacking infrastructure but from 30K feet and dumb bombs, they are more likely to kill civilians than destroy infrastructure.

Strategic bombing can be very effective application of warfare as US has shown in World War II:

The Effects of Strategic Bombing in WWII on German Morale - AOAV

This report summarises the conclusions of the United States Strategic Bombing Survey in their research into the effects of air raids on the willingness and ability of the German population to support the war effort.

aoav.org.uk

The Strategic Bombing of Germany in World War II: Costs and Accomplishments on JSTOR

Kenneth P. Werrell, The Strategic Bombing of Germany in World War II: Costs and Accomplishments, The Journal of American History, Vol. 73, No. 3 (Dec., 1986), pp. 702-713

www.jstor.org

But US adopted "The Theory of Limited War" model for post-World War II regional conflicts with mixed outcomes.

The Theory of Limited War

Until 1991 the theory of limited war was shaped by the experience of two critical conflicts — Korea and Vietnam. Korea was responsible for a concept geared to an east-west confrontation and dependent on the limitation of objectives in order to have any...

link.springer.com

B-52 has produced results in every battle when used:

New Image Shows How B-52 Will Look After Engine, Radar Replacement

I would say that the capitulation of the Pakistan forces in East Pakistan is a much worse humiliation and defeat. Half your country rejected You. You better keep quite before Sweden gets de-nazified. We capitulated to our own people and were within our own country (at that time), so there is a...

defence.pk

Taliban forces enter Kandahar, the second largest city in Afghanistan

https://bakhtarnews.af/66-taliban-terrorists-killed-in-herat-airstrike/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

defence.pk

Taliban forces enter Kandahar, the second largest city in Afghanistan

https://bakhtarnews.af/66-taliban-terrorists-killed-in-herat-airstrike/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

defence.pk

 

[aviator_fan]

for the favor Germany is in recession , and industries leaving it . i say a favor to China an USA

You are in Germany? 2.6% growth in GDP . Capitalism is about creative destruction. Some companies thrive others fail. 2.6 is not a definition of recession.

Some companies will leave some new will come. Intel commited $19BN to invest in Germany: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/15/technology/intel-factory-germany.html

Let Germans decide for themselves: if they don't like the trajectory they will throw out the current elected leadership. They know if they should live under the Russian thumb in the future (if not militarily then under the influence of russian gas). So they made a break and they will recover from whatever fake recession you are talking about.

Strategic bombing can be very effective application of warfare as US has shown in World War II:

The Effects of Strategic Bombing in WWII on German Morale - AOAV

This report summarises the conclusions of the United States Strategic Bombing Survey in their research into the effects of air raids on the willingness and ability of the German population to support the war effort.

aoav.org.uk

The Strategic Bombing of Germany in World War II: Costs and Accomplishments on JSTOR

Kenneth P. Werrell, The Strategic Bombing of Germany in World War II: Costs and Accomplishments, The Journal of American History, Vol. 73, No. 3 (Dec., 1986), pp. 702-713

www.jstor.org

But US adopted "The Theory of Limited War" model for post-World War II regional conflicts with mixed outcomes.

The Theory of Limited War

Until 1991 the theory of limited war was shaped by the experience of two critical conflicts — Korea and Vietnam. Korea was responsible for a concept geared to an east-west confrontation and dependent on the limitation of objectives in order to have any...

link.springer.com

B-52 has produced results in every battle when used:

New Image Shows How B-52 Will Look After Engine, Radar Replacement

I would say that the capitulation of the Pakistan forces in East Pakistan is a much worse humiliation and defeat. Half your country rejected You. You better keep quite before Sweden gets de-nazified. We capitulated to our own people and were within our own country (at that time), so there is a...

defence.pk

Taliban forces enter Kandahar, the second largest city in Afghanistan

https://bakhtarnews.af/66-taliban-terrorists-killed-in-herat-airstrike/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

defence.pk

Taliban forces enter Kandahar, the second largest city in Afghanistan

https://bakhtarnews.af/66-taliban-terrorists-killed-in-herat-airstrike/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

defence.pk

I didn't say B-52s weren't effective. WHat i was saying is breaking the civilian population does not change trajectory in short-term. Germans eventually surrendered in WWII because Allies ground forces surrounded it. The bombing of cities did over long term reduce German industrial capacity but to keep fighting. Ukraine is getting most of its weapons from outside so relentless drone attacks won't change the outcome.

 

[jhungary]

Strategic bombing can be very effective application of warfare as US has shown in World War II:

The Effects of Strategic Bombing in WWII on German Morale - AOAV

This report summarises the conclusions of the United States Strategic Bombing Survey in their research into the effects of air raids on the willingness and ability of the German population to support the war effort.

aoav.org.uk

The Strategic Bombing of Germany in World War II: Costs and Accomplishments on JSTOR

Kenneth P. Werrell, The Strategic Bombing of Germany in World War II: Costs and Accomplishments, The Journal of American History, Vol. 73, No. 3 (Dec., 1986), pp. 702-713

www.jstor.org

But US adopted "The Theory of Limited War" model for post-World War II regional conflicts with mixed outcomes.

The Theory of Limited War

Until 1991 the theory of limited war was shaped by the experience of two critical conflicts — Korea and Vietnam. Korea was responsible for a concept geared to an east-west confrontation and dependent on the limitation of objectives in order to have any...

link.springer.com

B-52 has produced results in every battle when used:

New Image Shows How B-52 Will Look After Engine, Radar Replacement

I would say that the capitulation of the Pakistan forces in East Pakistan is a much worse humiliation and defeat. Half your country rejected You. You better keep quite before Sweden gets de-nazified. We capitulated to our own people and were within our own country (at that time), so there is a...

defence.pk

Taliban forces enter Kandahar, the second largest city in Afghanistan

https://bakhtarnews.af/66-taliban-terrorists-killed-in-herat-airstrike/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

defence.pk

Taliban forces enter Kandahar, the second largest city in Afghanistan

https://bakhtarnews.af/66-taliban-terrorists-killed-in-herat-airstrike/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

defence.pk

Strategic bombing can only be useful if you bomb strategic target. Like oil refinery, troop marshalling area, road junction, railway station, factory and so on.

The thing about strategic bombing is that you are targeting your enemy ability to rage war, say impeding their movement speed by hitting railway yard, station or road junction. Which most of these targets usually deep inside enemy territories. Which mean you will need a large aircraft with some survivablity deep inside enemy territories to do the job.

Strategic bomber can also perform tactical mission, such as operation arc light which the US uses B-52 to act as close air support for bases and attack in Vietnam until the end of hostilities.

The question is, would Russia be beneficial in a strategic campaign again the Ukrainian?

Ukraine did not have much industrial base left, most of the equipment they are using are either repaired by the West or in the field. and the there aren't really any strategic target left, on the other hand, movement target are quite spread out due to the fact that Ukraine is quite big in size, which mean you will need to penetrate deeper into Ukraine heartland to be able to reach for those target. And that without complete air superiority., it more or less suicide.

Let's put it this way, US enjoy complete air superiority, USAF still loses 30 B-52s over Vietnam...