Russia to Deliver Carrier to India in 2012

[SpArK]

1.INS Vikramaditya [Gorshkov] By 2012
2.INS Vikrant [IAC 1] Built at Cochin shipyard , Sea trials By 2013 , commisioning by 2014
3.INS Vishal [IAC 2] will be Built at Cochin Shipyard , Order expected to be placed In coming months , Commisioning By 2017-2018

INS Viraat will be Retired by 2020.

Navy will have 3 Operational carriers By 2018 , And work On IAC 3 Possibly will be named ' Viraat ' would have been started By then.

Great Future for Navy

Out of these what will be the fighters used.

Mig-29,N-LCA, NMRCA, N-5th Gen.?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I wonder how can 45 Mig-29K fit this carrier that was originally designed for 12 Fixed Wing fighters and 20 helicopters. Perhaps some are reserves? Also if I were not wrong, originally it had no ski-jump right? The change seems pretty radical.

All 45 MiGs will not embark on this carrier. This one will take 12-18 of these aircraft depending on final configuration.
Then, there is another Aircraft Carrier under construction which will take some aircraft.
And in the next phase of construction; two more carriers are planned.

 

[sancho]

Out of these what will be the fighters used.

Mig-29,N-LCA, NMRCA, N-5th Gen.?

INS Vikramaditya [Gorshkov]
INS Vikrant [IAC 1]

Will have a mix of Mig 29K and N - LCA


INS Vishal [IAC 2]

Will most likely have a mix of N - MMRCA and N - 5th gen fighters, hopefully Rafale & N - FGFA

All 45 MiGs will not embark on this carrier. This one will take 12-18 of these aircraft depending on final configuration.
Then, there is another Aircraft Carrier under construction which will take some aircraft.

That's the point, the 45 Migs will be splitted into 3 x squads, 1 for each carrier and 1 in reserve, or for training purposes. In addition to them, we will see a bunch of N - LCAs.

 

[Abingdonboy]

INS Vikramaditya [Gorshkov]
INS Vikrant [IAC 1]

Will have a mix of Mig 29K and N - LCA


INS Vishal [IAC 2]

Will most likely have a mix of N - MMRCA and N - 5th gen fighters, hopefully Rafale & N - FGFA




That's the point, the 45 Migs will be splitted into 3 x squads, 1 for each carrier and 1 in reserve, or for training purposes. In addition to them, we will see a bunch of N - LCAs.

Personally I'm hoping for F-35C for the 5th Gen a/c on IAC 2 coupled with newly developed EMALS from the US. There has been very serious talk of this so maybe...

Also the N-FGFA would be a HUGE a/c to operate of carriers so I'm not sure its worth it/feasible as you would have to carry less a/c as i think it has been specilated that IAC 2 will be 65,000 tonnes and I'm sure it would be considerably more expensive especially as the IN would probably end up paying for most of the development of the Naval version.


It has always bothered/intrigued me as to why the IN has floated the N-MMRCA if they also intend to induct a 5th gen Naval fighter ONTOP of the 45 Mig 29ks and N-LCAs. Very strange it seems they have created a niche that doesn't need to be filled. However it makes sense if they DON'T intend to induct any 5th gen fighters soon.

 

[sancho]

Personally I'm hoping for F-35C for the 5th Gen a/c on IAC 2 coupled with newly developed EMALS from the US. There has been very serious talk of this so maybe...

Also the N-FGFA would be a HUGE a/c to operate of carriers so I'm not sure its worth it/feasible as you would have to carry less a/c as i think it has been specilated that IAC 2 will be 65,000 tonnes and I'm sure it would be considerably more expensive especially as the IN would probably end up paying for most of the development of the Naval version.


It has always bothered/intrigued me as to why the IN has floated the N-MMRCA if they also intend to induct a 5th gen Naval fighter ONTOP of the 45 Mig 29ks and N-LCAs. Very strange it seems they have created a niche that doesn't need to be filled. However it makes sense if they DON'T intend to induct any 5th gen fighters soon.

IAF turned down the chances of F35, because of the obvious advantages the FGFA development offers us, I hope IN will do the same. The length of FGFA might be an issue in terms of the size of elevators, or internal space of the hangars, but that's why you need to know what kind of fighters you will use before the design is fixed. Not to forget that IN was interested in heavy class fighters as well (MKI version of the Su 33). The point for an N - FGFA is the clear advantage of much internal fuel and it's A2A good multi role performance, which would be perfect for a carrier fighter, but IN might prefer the less capable N - AMCA, because it's more indigenous (see N - LCA).
N - MMRCAs are needed because IAC2 is expected around 2017/18, by that time neither a naval Pak Fa / FGFA, let alone the AF version of AMCA will be ready. The new carrier will be more capable and is aimed on projecting the power to greater distances, compared to the earlier 2 and therefor needs more capable fighters as well. Neither Mig 29Ks, nor N - LCAs fit in here and although Mig was invited to the competition as well, it's doubtful that IN will go for it even with further Mig 35 upgrades, because they thought about Rafale, or F18SH for Gorshkov as well and had to take the Migs, because it was a combined deal.

 

[Abingdonboy]

IAF turned down the chances of F35, because of the obvious advantages the FGFA development offers us, I hope IN will do the same. The length of FGFA might be an issue in terms of the size of elevators, or internal space of the hangars, but that's why you need to know what kind of fighters you will use before the design is fixed. Not to forget that IN was interested in heavy class fighters as well (MKI version of the Su 33). The point for an N - FGFA is the clear advantage of much internal fuel and it's A2A good multi role performance, which would be perfect for a carrier fighter, but IN might prefer the less capable N - AMCA, because it's more indigenous (see N - LCA).
N - MMRCAs are needed because IAC2 is expected around 2017/18, by that time neither a naval Pak Fa / FGFA, let alone the AF version of AMCA will be ready. The new carrier will be more capable and is aimed on projecting the power to greater distances, compared to the earlier 2 and therefor needs more capable fighters as well. Neither Mig 29Ks, nor N - LCAs fit in here and although Mig was invited to the competition as well, it's doubtful that IN will go for it even with further Mig 35 upgrades, because they thought about Rafale, or F18SH for Gorshkov as well and had to take the Migs, because it was a combined deal.

^^^ I'm not too sure about that as both (ESP the SH) are heavy fighters and need CATBAR configuration for take off on such a short deck and so couldn't be operated on Gorshkov. Can you provide links the IN was interested in MKI/33?

+ how are Mig 29ks not able to project power? N-LCA yes, but the Mig-29K is very capable it is far more advanced than the 29s the IAF operates just check its specs, the Mig 35 is just a further tuned version of the "K".

 

[sancho]

^^^ I'm not too sure about that as both (ESP the SH) are heavy fighters and need CATBAR configuration for take off on such a short deck and so couldn't be operated on Gorshkov. Can you provide links the IN was interested in MKI/33?

+ how are Mig 29ks not able to project power? N-LCA yes, but the Mig-29K is very capable it is far more advanced than the 29s the IAF operates just check its specs, the Mig 35 is just a further tuned version of the "K".

Exactly, the size and weight of the F18 and Flankers were the restrictions which is why they couldn't be used on these carriers, the Rafale on the other hand has the same size of an Mig (although with folded wings the Mig needs less space in the hangar) and is even lighter. The main difference between ski-jump and catapult take off is the special front gear, otherwise the carrier fighters are pretty much the same, except of VTOL fighters of course. I read it in an older article, will post it if I find it.
Actually I meant the carriers are not able to project the power to greater distances, but be it the Mig, or the N-LCA are also not as capable as a Rafale, or Super Hornet (payload, range, number of hardpoints..., A2G weapons), especially in the strike role which is important for carrier fighters these days they lack behind. However, the Gorshkov and IAC1 are aimed on air defense and sea control mainly and that are fields where the Mig will be good.

 

[JPUSINVNSCK]

All 45 MiGs will not embark on this carrier. This one will take 12-18 of these aircraft depending on final configuration.
Then, there is another Aircraft Carrier under construction which will take some aircraft.
And in the next phase of construction; two more carriers are planned.

F35c >mig29k. I tihnk IN will make this deal to replace the mig 29k in the future.

 

[DelhiDareDevil]

F-35 to expensive, do we need them for Pakistan really?

As for China, dont think both nations can afford to attack each other.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Exactly, the size and weight of the F18 and Flankers were the restrictions which is why they couldn't be used on these carriers, the Rafale on the other hand has the same size of an Mig (although with folded wings the Mig needs less space in the hangar) and is even lighter. The main difference between ski-jump and catapult take off is the special front gear, otherwise the carrier fighters are pretty much the same, except of VTOL fighters of course. I read it in an older article, will post it if I find it.
Actually I meant the carriers are not able to project the power to greater distances, but be it the Mig, or the N-LCA are also not as capable as a Rafale, or Super Hornet (payload, range, number of hardpoints..., A2G weapons), especially in the strike role which is important for carrier fighters these days they lack behind. However, the Gorshkov and IAC1 are aimed on air defense and sea control mainly and that are fields where the Mig will be good.

I'm sorry mate but it seems your contradicting yourself as you said:

Mig was invited to the competition as well, it's doubtful that IN will go for it even with further Mig 35 upgrades, because they thought about Rafale, or F18SH for Gorshkov as well and had to take the Migs, because it was a combined deal

Which implies the only reason the SH and Rafele were not picked was because the Mig 29ks cakes as part of the deal and nothing to do with the weight implications. I'm sorry if this sounds petty but I think you should either stick to your conviction or admit you were wrong and not pretend you were saying what you were not and agree with me.

+ does anyone know if the "K" comes with/or are plans to induct the Litening Pod on them for precision a2g roles? If not what alternatives are IN looking at given this is a key aspect the IN wanted?

 

[sancho]

Which implies the only reason the SH and Rafele were not picked was because the Mig 29ks cakes as part of the deal and nothing to do with the weight implications. I'm sorry if this sounds petty but I think you should either stick to your conviction or admit you were wrong and not pretend you were saying what you were not and agree with me.

You get it wrong, because I agreed with you on the restictions of weight and size of the fighters, but also told you that that doesn't mean they neccesarily needs catapults. If the carrier is big enough and can handle heavier fighters you can do it with out, see the Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov.
As I said, IN was interested in western fighters for the Gorshkov and made studies if it would be possible to operate them. The issue of the F18SH in this case, would have been the high weight and thrust mainly, because of the ski-jump take off and the short size of the Gorshkov deck.
However, the Russians left us with no choice here, because they combined the carrier deal with the procurement of 16 x Migs. So even if the F18, or Rafale would be useful, we couldn't get them for this carrier and the later order for more, was a logical step in regard to commonality between Gorshkov and IAC1, as well as their fighters.


Here is one of the articles that talked about INs interest:

India eyes US F-18 fighters for Russian-built Admiral Gorshkov

Moscow, May 22 (UNI) The Indian Navy has asked the US aircraft manufacturer Boeing for the use of its F-18 Super Hornet supersonic carrier-based fighter aircraft on board its Russian-built heavy aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov to be renamed INS Vikramaditya, Russian daily Izvestia said today.

A Boeing spokesman confirmed that his company had received a request from India for use of the fighters on board the heavy aircraft carrier...

India eyes US F-18 fighters for Russian-built Admiral Gorshkov - Oneindia News

The Brazilian navy is considering new fighters for their CATOBAR carrier as well, but although the F18SH can be used with the catapult system, the weight and size is an issue again, because it is too heavy for the wirings, which would limit the take off weight dramatically and is too big for the elevators. So there are several things you have to look at when considering a carrier fighter, especially when they are for a carrier that already is build. For IAC2 the decision about the fighters is important as well, but we can build it around the specs of the fighters, which will be easier and leaves more options.

+ does anyone know if the "K" comes with/or are plans to induct the Litening Pod on them for precision a2g roles? If not what alternatives are IN looking at given this is a key aspect the IN wanted?

Not sure, because the Litening pod is used by IAF and IN could go for a different one (Damocles, which is also used by Su 30 MKM, or the new Russian pods). If we keep in mind the limited number of hardpoints of the Mig, the integrated system of the Mig 35 (OLS-K) could be interesting as well:

 

[Nirvana]

Out of these what will be the fighters used.

Mig-29,N-LCA, NMRCA, N-5th Gen.?

INS Vikramaditya - will operate Mix of Mig 29 k and N - LCA
INS Vikrant IAC 1 - Will operate same mix of Mig 29 k and N - LCA

IAC - 2 INS Vishal-> will be CATOBAR carrier , so I guess It will operate N-MMRCA [RFI Was issued ] Most probably Rafale Or may be F-18.

IAC 2 Will be commisioned in 2017-2019 timeframe , and By that time i dont think N-FGFA will be operational.There are no reports that India and russia have even considered It.

5th gen Naval fighters will operate most probably from future IAC - 3 And 4 Which will be Super carriers.

 

[Nirvana]

F35c >mig29k. I tihnk IN will make this deal to replace the mig 29k in the future.

Indian Navy has turned down F 35 , For 5th gen naval fighters for future carriers Navy will go with N-FGFA program with Russia.

 

[jha]

Indian Navy has turned down F 35 , For 5th gen naval fighters for future carriers Navy will go with N-FGFA program with Russia.

AFAIK this hasn't happened yet...Infact RFI was issued to LM for F-35 only in addition to other planes..