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Russia offers Pakistan 10 Helicopters to enhance better understanding

Well the old Jumbos are Fuel guzzling machines , greater weight = more engine power needs more fuel to operate these gas guzzlers LOSS of profits

Its more about small , sleek and fuel efficiency

Small sleek did you know the newest model 747-8 are fuel efficient, our planes can be modernized to those standards the newest 747 costs at the most $310-320 million dollars in this price you can upgrade 3 of your 747s or lets add $70 million more. I say $400 million for 3 airplanes is nothing it would be the most wisest decision. Our government has the spending habit you know every minister has his person account for spending going here and there but money and decision hardly comes by for our civilian transports and Air Force, well good hunting if Pakistan wants to peruse its own course.
 
Small sleek did you know the newest model 747-8 are fuel efficient, our planes can be modernized to those standards the newest 747 costs at the most $310-320 million dollars in this price you can upgrade 3 of your 747s or lets add $70 million more. I say $400 million for 3 airplanes is nothing it would be the most wisest decision. Our government has the spending habit you know every minister has his person account for spending going here and there but money and decision hardly comes by for our civilian transports and Air Force, well good hunting if Pakistan wants to peruse its own course.

Great point

I think the key for PIA , I know we are going off topic is modernization of fleet and cutting their work force
and more technology in ticket bookings.

a) They need 10 Airbus / 10 Russian Jets , 20 Craft brand new fleet.
b) They need to retire the old planes due to safety and concerns from Euro Union
c) Convert the old planes to Cargo planes for Fedex remove all seats

Cut down , 18,000 Employee number to 4,000 Employees , 600 crew / Pilots / Co Pilots
400 workers for customer service

13,000 other workers should be let go for balancing budget - They should be promised a consideration for rehire - if after 12 months PIA reports profit or they introduce new routes


The employee relief/let go program would return about 300-400 million USD to PIA annually
if on average each employee makes 30,000 USD / yea
r [/B]

New planes will automatically save $ on fuel used in planes

> Put focus on Timely Flights
> Luxury and Crew Training
> Construction of fuel reserves
(Tankers which can store 6 month supply of fuel so they can buy fuel at low rates)

The reason why the sales and growth has stalled is due to too many people , and not enough work for these employees


The customer satisfaction has to be molded to world standard like done in major world corporations

Priority first should be to earn profits , and once you reach that goal you can bring back laid off workers

If it was for me I would take the 5,000 workers from 13,000 to be laid off and move them into PIA Cargo (Fedex like organization) and get them integrated into the operations into the Cargo Service

The Cargo service would have its own budget separate from PIA so its own performance can be judged

a) Cargo service dealing with Document mail
b) Delivery boxes , special deliveries etc parcels

But PIA has to be reduced down to 4,000-5,000 workers
 
Hi,

I believe that you can buy them cheaper from those parked at storage----some of the airlines have planes that pia can buy for pea nuts. PIA had the oppurtunity to buy those at a ridiculously low cost---but they got suckered in by boeing for the lLR that we bought was it 777----they dangled the carrot of direct flight from pakistan to NY --- which didnot happen----otherwise PIA could have bought the same item for maybe 25% of its price and I believe it was AA or NWA that had its planes parked at amark----.

My input would be to buy those parked in the storage---reconditioning will take too much time---PIA needs help asap---.
 
Why do you always let other nations "Use" you to solve their problems and dump in the mid way ???
 
Hi,

The reason is that pakistanis still don\'t know what and who their nation is----once they become a nation---they won\'t let it happen.

Wrong. Pakistan knows exactly who they are as envisioned by Jinnah. Iqbal\'s dream of a place where Muslims of subcontinent will not have to suffer any more.
Unfortunately some people are brainwashed by other nations into believing their propaganda.
 
Pakistan should get Mi-35

Mi_35_Russian_Attack_Helicopter_6.jpeg

I love it. :smitten:

What a monster look!!!
 
Why do you always let other nations "Use" you to solve their problems and dump in the mid way ???

Hi, Pakistan is the one country that is sitting on close to 200 nukes, but is basically considered and treated like a hijra by the international community. It has a foreign policy that is weaker than Somalia and can be bought for a few aid dollars. Compare it to Iran or NK. Iran is still trying to develop nukes, NK has a few dozen and look how the world does not even try to push them around.

Other than begging for aid, and letting others walk all over it, the nation of Pakistan is still looking of a leader that will give it some dignity.
 
Hi, Pakistan is the one country that is sitting on close to 200 nukes, but is basically considered and treated like a hijra by the international community. It has a foreign policy that is weaker than Somalia and can be bought for a few aid dollars. Compare it to Iran or NK. Iran is still trying to develop nukes, NK has a few dozen and look how the world does not even try to push them around.

Other than begging for aid, and letting others walk all over it, the nation of Pakistan is still looking of a leader that will give it some dignity.

this is because NK and Iranian leaders are patriotic and want their nations powerful.

when Pakistan will have leader with foresight Pakistan wont be in mess and other nations will give Pakistan respect because only a leader with strategic foresight can decide right foreign policy for Pakistan.

and that leader should have backing from army too or his wit may wont be useful
 
Yeah surely , its a sure tell all Sign where the world is going

China and Russia Vetoed because they saw what happened in Libya, its just a blatant war now we will see Al Qaeda flourish in Libya before it was a beautiful country , opening up its oil business and it had a endless future before it

Libya was a needless conquest by NATO. No country other than NATO agrees on that, including us. Libya was a waste of time, lives and money. Just supporting the opposition was enough rather than sending in invasive jets.

But Russia + China + Pakistan + Iran + Turkey

I don't know from where you get that "bloc". Because it has never been materialized courtesy to difference of foreign policy agendas of all these countries. Realities have changed from alliances to trade money and the enemies have changed as well.

What we are seeing now happening in our life time is revival of the "Old Silk Route"
an ancient route which used to the source of revenue for Past empires / civilizations

Don't see who is so significantly interested in it other than China and Pakistan.

Now we see a reverse happening , people are going back forming old alliances and its Cheaper to trade via Silk route vs shipping things by Sea route

Though it is a lucrative route, given the absence of reasonable infrastructure and lack of any neutral-political nations, it is going to remain an energy corridor for Asia rather than of any serious value. Security is the prime concern.

Russia + China + Pakistan + Iran + Turkey makes complete sense , and if one Day India gives up its Weapons purchase desires and shakes hand with Pakistan and China who know SCO

Not possible. As said, none of these countries have matching foreign policies or even common goals. Some examples:

- China: wants exceptional trade and economic relations favoring in its surplus. Doesn't give a jack about anything else other than its regional problems. Keen on territorial expansion is secondary right now.

- Pakistan: foreign policy focused on mitigating any progress in our and Afghan matters. Focused on retaining mujahideen groups for strategic use later. Trade not on priority as of now as much as security is despite inaction in both aspects.

- Turkey: wants independent decision making from US and expand trade and commercial ties with Arabs. Focused on regaining its Ottoman influence in the region under Erdogan.

- Russia: Focused on securing the participation of EU missile defense program, is wary of Jihad in its underbelly, focused on energy and gas ties to new alternative customers. Sees Jihad as a threat rather than an asset.

- Iran: Obsessed with Israel, wants to be the regional boss, but is unable to. Wants complete destruction of Israel and wants to spread its influence from countries like Bahrain into Middle East. At a Mexican stand-off with Syria and Turkey right now.

S C 0 might be a bigger organization the NATO can ever imagine to be why ?

Because all the RAW material comes from SCO nations

Wrong. Except Kazakhstan, Russia, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, the remaining members aren't resource rich. Other major suppliers of RAW materials are Brazil, Argentina, Canada, African states and Australia. SO it isn't as one sided as you see it.

And if really look closely ,

Russia and Pakistan really had a good if not Best relations at time I mean who set up Pakistani Steels mills ? Russia !!! Not US they would have asked us to ship items to USA and then buy back stuff

Economics is perhaps the only line where two countries don't have problems with each other no matter how much they might despise each other.
 
"Before USA used us for destroy Rooooossss in Afghanistan!!
Now Russia will use us for destroy America in Afghanistan!! "

It seems like you are very happy with us playing the role of the regional merceneries!!!! We seem to be very comfortable in being used -- your priorities seem to be totally misguided by your zeal to harm those you hate!!! Let us not worry what happens ot us in this zeal to teach everyone a lesson -- Moon Toor Jawab!!!! Good luck!

he missed out our "use" by the Holy Arabs to crush the movement in Bahrain.
there is a total media blackout what happened there.

I mean no disrespect to anyone when I say what I am going to say
Russians are no better or bad than what Americans and vice versa. the friendships and alliances change with time and its time that we move out of the 70s-80s era mindset.

if Russians are able to support us in COIN related equipment and weapons then fine but lets not pus Russians too much, MI 17s will do fine, so asking or expecting something like MI 28s will scare them away because India is by far the longest, biggest and most reliable partner and I cant help myself but say that Russians have some principles here and they wont sell anything to us that can be used against their Indian friends. Unlike Americans who sold us F-16s and then offered Indians F/A 18s, F-16s and what not. But then again Indians have deeper pockets and Russians can appear to have better principles but I cant fault them.

Keeping this relationship purely non-military will be far more beneficial to us both as they will get a leverage with us and will help in defusing our tension with India. And Russian have a genuine stake here. They live in the neighbourhood.
So energy, transport and infrastructure projects with Russia and military cooperation and partnership with China should be the way forward.
 
Why should old jumbo planes be sold off, why not send them back to Boeing for modernization and refurbishment and make 3 of them as mission specific Air Refuellers and transport planes for PAF. It could cost us as much as $300 Million for 3 airframes, avionics and other Air Refueller specific upgrades and modernization, good enough for next 15 years.

Boeing 747 has never been militarized before except in US. Not even Japan is granted that exemption. You say you want to make the 747 a aerial refueler. You know how much fuel would that jet carry? What's the plan? Invade European Union? Not even US uses jumbos for refueling.

PAF transport, yes it is possible. But depending on whether US agree to militarize the jumbos you're talking about. Remember, military versions of any plane are much sturdier and still require more maintenance than civilian versions. Here you're talking about old ones to be refurbished from civilian service and put into military transport roles. It won't last more than 5 years and that too with the added risk.

Better consider some newer and smaller transport aircraft like C-390 of Brazil or even bigger ones like A400M to replace older C-130s. Anything bigger than that would be a waste of your money.
 
Bhutto was interested in pak-ussr relations but USA killed zulfiqar Ali Bhutto due to his interest in Russia.
now again world scenario is changing rapidly
may be soon Russia will add us into his arm umbrella
 
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