Russia objects to India plans to sell BrahMos missiles

[Neo]

Wednesday, January 10, 2007

Russia objects to India plans to sell BrahMos missiles

NEW DELHI: Russia has objected to Indian efforts to export the jointly produced anti-ship BrahMos missile to third countries. Sources here said that Moscow’s state arms export agency Rosoboronexport has expressed apprehensions that Indian efforts would edge the Russians out of the missiles market.

For the past year, India has been making presentations to sell the missile to Malaysia, South Africa, Kuwait, Chile and Indonesia. India’s competitor to sell missiles to Malaysia is Russia itself. The Indian Navy has already installed the BrahMos system on its warships, while its air force variant is at an advanced stages of development.

Indian officials here believe the matter will be sorted out here during the visit of Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov later this month. Ivanov will hold talks with his Indian counterpart AK Antony on January 23-24 ahead of the visit of Russian President Vladimir Putin, who is to be chief guest at India’s Republic Day function on January 26. During the visit, India and Russia will hold talks on joint production of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft project. The aircraft will be a generation ahead of the Sukhoi 30 MKI and American joint strike F-35.

Meanwhile, India’s military imports are expected to rise to a staggering $35 billion (Rs 1.5 trillion) in the next two decades from the current level of $9 billion. Speaking at an interactive session at an international conference of overseas Indians here, Defence Minister Antony said India was looking to become a “significant” maritime power. He said the Indian Ocean is home to the busiest sea lanes, with an estimated $1.8 trillion of trade passing through the region. “Thus, India has the potential and the capability to be a significant maritime player. I would even venture to say that the Indian Ocean could, in fact, be India’s new Silk Route,’” Antony said.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\01\10\story_10-1-2007_pg7_39

 

[Bull]

So thats a certificate that indeed these missiles are damn good.

 

[Keysersoze]

So thats a certificate that indeed these missiles are damn good.

No it means that Russia doesn't want to lose even a small part of any profit. And considering that they developed the missile as well......

And if you want to use this as being proof then you could argue the whole engine fiasco with the JF-17, is in fact proof that it is "damn good" as you say.

 

[Neo]

No it means that Russia doesn't want to lose even a small part of any profit. And considering that they developed the missile as well......

And if you want to use this as being proof then you could argue the whole engine fiasco with the JF-17, is in fact proof that it is "damn good" as you say.

Good post Keyser!

Bull,

India is competing in Malaysia against Russia, this ofcouse isn't the brightest move considering the fact that its a Russian design and technology.
I saw that coming.

 

[Adux]

Good post Keyser!

Bull,

India is competing in Malaysia against Russia, this ofcouse isn't the brightest move considering the fact that its a Russian design and technology.
I saw that coming.

Touche Keyser...lol

Neo,

Guidance is Indian Propulsion is Russian..Indians are quite advanced in Guidance and Computer Tech, and it is a very important part in missile tech.

 

[Neo]

Neo,

Guidance is Indian Propulsion is Russian..Indians are quite advanced in Guidance and Computer Tech, and it is a very important part in missile tech.

Adux,

I give you that, but it remains a downgraded version of the original Russian Yakhunt design with an indegenious guidance system easily available in Russia with probably a zillion of alternatives.
Does India have an indegenious propulsion design to develop an export variant?

 

[sword9]

Why should Russia object? The BrahMos is a 50:50 JV, so the sale proceeds are split between the two nations. I think there maybe a copy right issue which needs to be sorted out.

 

[Neo]

I think there maybe a copy right issue which needs to be sorted out.

Thats what I'm thinking Sir.

 

[Adux]

Adux,

I give you that, but it remains a downgraded version of the original Russian Yakhunt design with an indegenious guidance system easily available in Russia with probably a zillion of alternatives.
Does India have an indegenious propulsion design to develop an export variant?

Downgraded in range, cuz of MTCR, otherwise far superior to its Russian counterpart.

 

[Bull]

No it means that Russia doesn't want to lose even a small part of any profit. And considering that they developed the missile as well.......

Well ofcourse yes,there was russian help.Its a 50.50 deal.

And if you want to use this as being proof then you could argue the whole engine fiasco with the JF-17, is in fact proof that it is "damn good" as you say.

i didnt get it,,,

 

[Cheetah786]

Touche Keyser...lol

Neo,

Guidance is Indian Propulsion is Russian..Indians are quite advanced in Guidance and Computer Tech, and it is a very important part in missile tech.

India's First Cruise Missile Battalion
July 11, 2006: The Indian army has activated it's first BrahMos cruise missile battalion. The PJ-10 BrahMos missiles are carried, three to a truck, on a vehicle which also acts as a launcher. The 3.2 ton missile has a range of 300 kilometers and has a 660 pound warhead. Perhaps the most striking characteristic of the BrahMos is its high speed, literally faster (at up to 3,000 feet per second) than a rifle bullet.

India and Russia developed the weapon together, and also offer the BrahMos for export. The high price of each missile, about $2.3 million, restricts the number of countries that can afford it. India's BrahMos battalion has four launcher vehicles, plus support vehicles and sixty missiles. Do the math (that's over $150 million for one battalion.) Five older destroyers have been retrofitted with at least four BrahMos each, and new ships will have the missile as well.

The weapon was a joint development project that entered service with the Indian navy in 2005. Different versions of the PJ-10 can be fired from the air, from ships or submarines. The maximum speed of 3,000 kilometers an hour makes it harder to intercept, and means it takes five minutes or less to reach its target. The air launched version weighs 2.5 tons, the others, three tons or more. The 29 foot long, 670mm diameter missile is an upgraded version of the Russian SS-NX-26 (Yakhont) missile, which was in development when the Cold War ended in 1991. Lacking money to finish development and begin production, the Russian manufacturer made a deal with India to finish the job. India put up most of the $240 million needed to finally complete two decades of development. The PJ-10 is being built in Russia, with India as the initial customer. China and Iran have also expressed interest in the weapon.

The SS-NX-26 (Yakhont)/BrahMos) was originally developed as an aircraft carrier killer. That's why it has the high speed and elaborate guidance system. And that's why it's so expensive. A similar American weapon, the ATACMS rocket, also has a range of 300 kilometers, uses GPS guidance, and has a 500 pound warhead. ATACMS costs a million dollars each, but is not as fast and lacks an elaborate terminal guidance system. The land version of BrahMos would be an effective coast defense weapon. For example, if the Iranians got several dozen land launched BrahMos missiles, they could pose a real threat to any ships using the Straits of Hormuz. In other words, the BrahMos missile could close those straits, through which most of the worlds oil supplies pass. Russia would benefit from that, because the price of their oil exports would climb. India would not like it, as they import oil from the Persian Gulf. India and Russia are both supposed to have a veto over who can buy BrahMos. So while Russia might like to sell Iran BrahMos, India would probably object.

At the moment, the most likely targets for BrahMos are Pakistani. Against ships, you can justify a $2.3 million missile, but there are few land targets, within range of the BrahMos, that are worth the cost. Moreover, India has cheaper ballistic missiles for that sort of thing, as well as bomb and missile carrying jets. BrahMos was designed to hit a moving target, and do so at high speed, to make defensive measures less effective. To that end, India is developing the air launched version, which will be carried by its Su-30 fighters. There might also eventually be a cheaper land based version, using a less expensive guidance system (like GPS) for stationary land targets. India and Russia plan to manufacture about a thousand BrahMos over the next ten years, including those needed for export.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/articles/20060711.aspx

 

[Bull]

Bull,
India is competing in Malaysia against Russia, this ofcouse isn't the brightest move considering the fact that its a Russian design and technology.
I saw that coming.

Why is Brahmos india's.Its Russia's as much as India's . And both carry a veto on sales.

 

[Neo]

Why is Brahmos india's.Its Russia's as much as India's . And both carry a veto on sales.

Like Sword9 already pointed out, it might be a licence issue.
Even in a JV you need a licence to export the design independantly.

 

[Keysersoze]

Why should Russia object? The BrahMos is a 50:50 JV, so the sale proceeds are split between the two nations. I think there maybe a copy right issue which needs to be sorted out.

As you say it is a joint venture.......Russia could sell one of it's own missiles (other than the Brahmos) and get ALL the profit...A quick veto will help spoil the Brahmos sale.......At the end of the day the Russians will look after themselves. See the gas/oil disputes with various states to see how they like to do business.........

 

[vnomad]

As you say it is a joint venture.......Russia could sell one of it's own missiles (other than the Brahmos) and get ALL the profit...A quick veto will help spoil the Brahmos sale.......

Two reasons against that. The Brahmos has invited maximum interest in buyers. Sale of russian missiles that have performance close to that of the Brahmos are restricted by the MTCR.