Russia lifts ban, Iran to get S 300

[scythian500]

Review this to determine the validity of your conjecture:

The Joint Threat Emitter Can Be Any SAM Site You Want It To Be

The US also has NATO and non-NATO allies that possess the S-300 system, as noted with the Slovak Air Force.

NATO Aircraft Will ‘Hunt’ Russian Missile Systems During Defence-suppression Exercise

We have ways to deal with it.

1- Why in first place Israel and USA, fought that hard pushing Russia not to deliver the systems to Iran? Why Israel tried many times to bomb alleged Syrian S-300 batteries under transport to syria??

2- Why now in 2015 that both USA and ISrael are more advanced in EW Technics, they still call it a very dangerous and unacceptable act to let Iran acquire S-300s??

3- Why when there is a talk about ISrael acquiring new 5th gen F-35 fighters they say, they need these fighters to surpass the threat of S-300 maybe in Iranian hands??

With all these still in place I can easily conclude that It is still very effective... otherwise, they could let it just be acquired by Syria and Iran... There were even calls by Israel If I remember right, to rush the F-35 fighter delivery to Israel or stop Iran from acquiring S-300....

The problem is not with a typical S-300 that US already have its codes and specifications... There problem comes as a basic war standard of not attacking an enemy with not being sure what to expect... Iranian successfully created an environment of doubt and suspection for west when it comes to weaponry... Iran already modified and changed all S-200 long range AA sensitive specifications in order to survive possible attacks... Let aside all other Iranian air defense systems that only Iran knows what it is and what it is made of..what are the specifications and codes and other EW stuff...

 

[Víðarr]

1- Why in first place Israel and USA, fought that hard pushing Russia not to deliver the systems to Iran? Why Israel tried many times to bomb alleged Syrian S-300 batteries under transport to syria??

2- Why now in 2015 that both USA and ISrael are more advanced in EW Technics, they still call it a very dangerous and unacceptable act to let Iran acquire S-300s??

3- Why when there is a talk about ISrael acquiring new 5th gen F-35 fighters they say, they need these fighters to surpass the threat of S-300 maybe in Iranian hands??

With all these still in place I can easily conclude that It is still very effective... otherwise, they could let it just be acquired by Syria and Iran... There were even calls by Israel If I remember right, to rush the F-35 fighter delivery to Israel or stop Iran from acquiring S-300....

The problem is not with a typical S-300 that US already have its codes and specifications... There problem comes as a basic war standard of not attacking an enemy with not being sure what to expect... Iranian successfully created an environment of doubt and suspection for west when it comes to weaponry... Iran already modified and changed all S-200 long range AA sensitive specifications in order to survive possible attacks... Let aside all other Iranian air defense systems that only Iran knows what it is and what it is made of..what are the specifications and codes and other EW stuff...

That's about my only reaction to what you wrote. You know you could answer most of your own questions with a bit of research right?

And I don't care about Israel, so don't put them into this discussion when trying to justify what the US does. I really don't care.

Kindly refrain from bothering me with your anxieties again.

 

[scythian500]

I wouldnt know mate, really. All i know is that Turkey received the source codes from Russia shortly after Greece stationed S-300s om Crete. Although i would dare to say Turkey could Jam the Iranian air-defence systems with its current capability. We did it before with the Greeks aswell. And to top all of this off, Turkey already got their hands on several Russian AA systems which they use for Aggresion training (S-300PMU-1, OSA, Tor-m1 and etc)

how can Turkey dare to be sure they can Jam Iranian AAs with its current capability if only Iran and Iran itself knows what is its systems specifications, codes, algorithms? This is exactly why Israel modifies the electronics of its imported weapons even from a friend like USA... defeating an AA system is all about fooling the system or confuse it only if you already know with what specific system or code are you dealing with... am I right? I,m not specialist...but I have read repeatedly that the element of surprise and not knowing what you expect in case of war, is the most dangerous and preventative element in deciding to go to war with X country.. am I right?

That's about my only reaction to what you wrote. You know you could answer most of your own questions with a bit of research right?

And I don't care about Israel, so don't put them into this discussion when trying to justify what the US does. I really don't care.

Kindly refrain from bothering my with your anxieties again.

haaa? really? see with whom we are dealing with here!! ok, but remember to talk polite child... who do you think you are? I asked questions to be answered... I know the answers..but it was intended for those who claim the opposite to explain the paradox... and it is a forum to talk about these stuff... if you don't like it this way... then.... astaghferullah... go child... be good...

 

[cabatli_53]

True... but you,re saying that Turkey has the codes and can defeat S-300s and don;t share them with US when they are after it? can you defeat an S-300 system that is modified by local sensitive codes and algorithms? What about other Iranian long range air fdefense systems? Can you defeat Bavar-373 when operation, or Talash-3 system already in service? I mean scientifically... Is it easy?

Turkey is investing hundreds of million $ to develop state of art electronic support/attack systems and delivering complete solutions to Turkish army. There are already proceeding projects to develop Aerial Stand off Attacking plane called Air-SOJ) and Land based stand off electronic attack systems (Land SOJ-completed) as well.

In additions, Turkish AirForce have a training center called EHTES(Electronic Warfare Test and Training Range). EHTES provides an instrumented environment for both testing of onboard EW equipment and for training the pilots in a near-real threat environment for employing tactics and maneuvers. To simulate real threat environments, Turkey ordered various type of Russian SAM systems from Tor-M1 to Buk-M, S-300 radar to simulate electronically attack/survive scenarioes from a likely missile launch (electronically simulated launches that fighter sensors feel as real) to be issued by them. This system is exported to Pakistan and S. Korea as well and threat bank is enlarged thanks to those countries SAM threat perceptions.

The gold question is, Turkish electronic attack systems are able to defeat Iranian missiles ? If It is S-300 PMU-1, even PMU-2(Azerbaijan), yes easily but Iranian upgraded one?. We don't know. The system itself works with emmiting the radar signals at first phase and immediately generates a counter attack codes/scenarioes/plans for jamming the target seeker head. The ED/ET system may jam enemy missile/fighters with identifying own coordinate dataes at different position or generates various similar radar echoes to direct the missile routes towards an empty sky or radar seeker head can be completely blocked or missile inertial measurement unit can be broken down...etc

but Firstly, We should receive some of your radar signals (Missile seeker radar/fighter AESA radar/Land based long range radar) firstly. That's why our AirForce sometimes violates the foreign air spaces to receive something usefull... We are familiar with Greek systems but don't know about yours. Greek Tor-M1's were locked Turkish fighters over Aegean in past. If the fighters were sent over Greek islands to receive some radar signals, Then I can say that Greeks did the worst thing.

 

[Daneshmand]

But what about fighting fairly ?

Oh well the whole world knows that Americans can't fight fairly !

Especially chubby Russian Americans; who even try to cheat the weighing scale !

@Víðarr - No reply ?

It all depends on how you define "fair"?

If say Pakistan had the capability to design and manufacture fifth generation fighters and bombers as well as systems similar to S-400 or Aegis, then in all probability you would take pride and call them fair. After all you have worked hard for them.

But for a nation that is about to face them, it is not "fair" since, they do not have them. This is pretty much the view of all third world countries. Not only in military affairs but across the board, in economy, health, legislature etc etc.

Everyone should really give up the idea of fairness. It ceases to exist the moment zygote forms. In fact the mere formation of zygote is not fair. Hundreds of millions have to die in order for just one to make it. The one that run fastest and knocked on the door hardest.

 

[Armstrong]

It all depends on how you define "fair"?

If say Pakistan had the capability to design and manufacture fifth generation fighters and bombers as well as systems similar to S-400 or Aegis, then in all probability you would take pride and call them fair. After all you have worked hard for them.

But for a nation that is about to face them, it is not "fair" since, they do not have them. This is pretty much the view of all third world countries. Not only in military affairs but across the board, in economy, health, legislature etc etc.

Everyone should really give up the idea of fairness. It ceases to exist the moment zygote forms. In fact the mere formation of zygote is not fair. Hundreds of millions have to die in order for just one to make it. The one that run fastest and knocked on the door hardest.

I was kidding !

 

[Daneshmand]

I was kidding !

With United States of America?

 

[scythian500]

No.

Iranian air defense commanders repeatedly announced their new Iranian systems has all S-300 offers plus additional capabilities... why should I reject them? Let aside current projects (maybe already in service!) of ultra lang range and space defense systems I,m aware of... but won't be existing until there is a public proof of course..which due to its strategic nature, I suspect it happen unless there is war...

Come on.
have n,t you heard in news how Iran has modified and changed S-200 electronics and algorithms and codes already? Iran is building many Medium to Lang Range AA systems by its own..so why not? one who can build a seperate design, can easily modify imported ones as Iran did...

Which general?
I don't remember... it was somewhere in Wikipedia... I found a Persian version mentions it.. آیا ایران واقعاً توان ایستادگی مقابل حملات نظامی آمریکا را دارد؟ - مشرق نیوز | mashreghnews.ir
You are correct in no.1, no.2, no.4.
5. Is totally wrong. There isn't much Iran can do.
google it... It is said that Russia will lose the case easily and have to pay
The Iranian envoy's remarks came after Russian Technologies (Rostech) CEO Sergei Chemezov said on May 30 that Moscow seeks to reach a settlement with Tehran to withdraw its lawsuit against Russia's state-run arms export company Rosoboronexport over the canceled deal as Russia's chances "to win the case are very slim".
Russia Seeks Amicable Settlement in Iran S-300 Lawsuit

3. There is not much Iran can offer to Russia economy wise, you have to remember that Russia itself is a Fuel Giant. And Iran's 90% exports are fuel based products.

It is not about what Iran exports to Russia but more about Russia exports stuff to Iran... although, Russia is need of many Iranian products as already started to export by Iran... From fruit, fish, processed food, up to the cars.... but as I said, Russia can export stuff to Iran and invest in Iran... secondly, Iran last year exported 51 billion dollars worth of non-oil products,... $20 billion was Petrochemical products and the rest was mostly medium and high tech stuff...

The MAJOR reason for the S-300 sale is to open a doorway to Iran for further sales. You have to remember Iran has been in sanctions for 30 years. Most of their equipment is very outdated. Iran will soon be buying Fighters, Frigates, Tanks and what not. And the competition will be between Russia and China only, since I don't think any European power will sell anything useful to Iran...

If the sanctions are lifted then the whole world can sell weapons but you,re mostly right about this... Russia needs to start showing they like to export weapons to Iran as China will grab the opportunity in a blink of eye if Russia does not move now... Iran mostly need new gen fighters and navy frigates and subs as reaching serious numbers of them being built by Iran locally takes long years so Iran would prefer to import a part of its needs.. Stuff like MBTs, Radars or ground forces equipment is something Iran prefer to build locally...

S-300 is a very dangerous and advanced system. They haven't gotten access to an S-300 so far so I doubt they have capable EW suite against S-300. They are right to be worried, but I don't think they can prevent Iran from acquiring S-300.
S-300 is just the beginning, once the sanctions are lifted, i see Iran acquiring a lot of Russian or maybe Chinese systems.
Agreed

If S-300 was not a serious threat the west and ISrael won,t jump up and down to neutralize this deal with Iran and Syria...

Waiting for Iranian comments.

I guess Iranian members decided not to engage in time-wasting trolling battles... please give us some secret info about Turkish or American stuff or ..... ok, I,m going to bed.. I have technologies to develop... inventions to invent... achievements to achieve tomorrow...

Bachehaye Irooni, lotfan dargir nashid ba in mardome alaki!! vaghtemoon ro behtar sarf konim..va majali be in aghab moondeha nadim

Turkey is investing hundreds of million $ to develop state of art electronic support/attack systems and delivering complete solutions to Turkish army. There are already proceeding projects to develop Aerial Stand off Attacking plane called Air-SOJ) and Land based stand off electronic attack systems (Land SOJ-completed) as well.

In additions, Turkish AirForce have a training center called EHTES(Electronic Warfare Test and Training Range). EHTES provides an instrumented environment for both testing of onboard EW equipment and for training the pilots in a near-real threat environment for employing tactics and maneuvers. To simulate real threat environments, Turkey ordered various type of Russian SAM systems from Tor-M1 to Buk-M, S-300 radar to simulate electronically attack/survive scenarioes from a likely missile launch (electronically simulated launches that fighter sensors feel as real) to be issued by them. This system is exported to Pakistan and S. Korea as well and threat bank is enlarged thanks to those countries SAM threat perceptions.

The gold question is, Turkish electronic attack systems are able to defeat Iranian missiles ? If It is S-300 PMU-1, even PMU-2(Azerbaijan), yes easily but Iranian upgraded one?. We don't know. The system itself works with emmiting the radar signals at first phase and immediately generates a counter attack codes/scenarioes/plans for jamming the target seeker head. The ED/ET system may jam enemy missile/fighters with identifying own coordinate dataes at different position or generates various similar radar echoes to direct the missile routes towards an empty sky or radar seeker head can be completely blocked or missile inertial measurement unit can be broken down...etc

but Firstly, We should receive some of your radar signals (Missile seeker radar/fighter AESA radar/Land based long range radar) firstly. That's why our AirForce sometimes violates the foreign air spaces to receive something usefull... We are familiar with Greek systems but don't know about yours. Greek Tor-M1's were locked Turkish fighters over Aegean in past. If the fighters were sent over Greek islands to receive some radar signals, Then I can say that Greeks did the worst thing.

Iran already announced that they already modified and will modify and change the electronic, codes and algorithms of all existing imported systems and logically, they will do the same with S-300 whatever the version would be... Iran already did this job with S-200 in a way that it can be called a huge upgrade if not a totally new system... they changed the electronic to modern solid state, changed algorithms, added the capability to intercept cruise and ballistics (If I remember correctly) and integrated new Iranian solid fuel missiles into its radars and fire control system to get rid of its old standard missiles...

but in real war... only results can determine which system works and which one fails...

 

[cabatli_53]

Turkey didn't prepare any war tactics to engage Iran since Iran is considered as friendly even If there are serious disagreements between us politically (At least I didn't read any) so talking about Turkey's tactics to engage Greek SAM's can give some usefull informations.

Other solution Turkey produced to engage a Greece like country that ordered a vast different type of SAM (S-300, PAC-3, PAC-2, Crotale, Asrad, Tor, HAWK, OSA-AKM..etc) system thanks to Turkish fear is anti-radiation UAV's. The tactic would be to send tens of those small anti-radiation UAV's to Greek airspace which is a small and cheap target to sacrifice a SAM missile. There are just two chances of Greek radars. Either shut down SAM radars immediately, or launch expensive missiles to hit them. In that scenario, While Greeks are wasting their valuable times to bickering UAV's, Striking forces of TurAF would have already started launching precision guided stand off missiles from hundreds of km away from radar ranges. Those Anti-radiation UAV's are loosing Greek sleeps too much that They even composed a movie about it.

 

[mister]

Turkey is investing hundreds of million $ to develop state of art electronic support/attack systems and delivering complete solutions to Turkish army. There are already proceeding projects to develop Aerial Stand off Attacking plane called Air-SOJ) and Land based stand off electronic attack systems (Land SOJ-completed) as well.

In additions, Turkish AirForce have a training center called EHTES(Electronic Warfare Test and Training Range). EHTES provides an instrumented environment for both testing of onboard EW equipment and for training the pilots in a near-real threat environment for employing tactics and maneuvers. To simulate real threat environments, Turkey ordered various type of Russian SAM systems from Tor-M1 to Buk-M, S-300 radar to simulate electronically attack/survive scenarioes from a likely missile launch (electronically simulated launches that fighter sensors feel as real) to be issued by them. This system is exported to Pakistan and S. Korea as well and threat bank is enlarged thanks to those countries SAM threat perceptions.

The gold question is, Turkish electronic attack systems are able to defeat Iranian missiles ? If It is S-300 PMU-1, even PMU-2(Azerbaijan), yes easily but Iranian upgraded one?. We don't know. The system itself works with emmiting the radar signals at first phase and immediately generates a counter attack codes/scenarioes/plans for jamming the target seeker head. The ED/ET system may jam enemy missile/fighters with identifying own coordinate dataes at different position or generates various similar radar echoes to direct the missile routes towards an empty sky or radar seeker head can be completely blocked or missile inertial measurement unit can be broken down...etc

but Firstly, We should receive some of your radar signals (Missile seeker radar/fighter AESA radar/Land based long range radar) firstly. That's why our AirForce sometimes violates the foreign air spaces to receive something usefull... We are familiar with Greek systems but don't know about yours. Greek Tor-M1's were locked Turkish fighters over Aegean in past. If the fighters were sent over Greek islands to receive some radar signals, Then I can say that Greeks did the worst thing.

In an integrated air defense network system, its not important that you can disable a radar by jamming. Surely another radars can track and lock on you. This is the fact of IRAN's air defense ability. Like onion, layered and connected to each other.

 

[scythian500]

Turkey didn't prepare any war tactics to engage Iran since Iran is considered as friendly even If there are serious disagreements between us politically so talking about Turkey's tactics to engage Greek SAM's can give some usefull informations.

Other solution Turkey produced to engage a Greece like country that ordered a vast different type of SAM (S-300, PAC-3, PAC-2, Crotale, Asrad, Tor, HAWK, OSA-AKM..etc) system thanks to Turkish fear is anti-radiation UAV's. The tactic would be to send tens of those small anti-radiation UAV's to Greek airspace which is a small and cheap target to sacrifice a SAM missile. There are just two chances of Greek radars. Either shut down SAM radars immediately, or launch expensive missiles to hit them. In that scenario, While Greeks are wasting their valuable times to bickering UAV's, Striking forces of TurAF would have already started launching precision guided stand off missiles from hundreds of km way of radar range. Those Anti-radiation UAV's are loosing Greek sleeps too much that They even composed a movie about it.

Is there any counter measures against what what Turkey can do? I mean against what you say Turkey can do

 

[Beast]

it is oil for arms swap, barter

Why russia needs oil? Russia got plenty. They need hardcash.

 

[munchkin]

Why russia needs oil? Russia got plenty. They need hardcash.

Russia can give arms to its allies for free, like the US does all the time. Russia can give 5,000 S300 missiles to Iran free of charge. Russia gives S300 missiles to Belarus for free.

Russia gives Belarus 4 S-300s for free

 

[-SINAN-]

please give us some secret info about Turkish or American stuff or

Here is one for you.

 

[scythian500]

Here is one for you.

specifications?