Russia Hikes SU 30MKI Prices Twice For India Might Be The revange That MI 35 got Elim

[Indiarox]

no its is not because u dont know that the new ones are a class above the existing one infact irkust corp has been trying out many new concepts and tests flights with many new ideas and this new planes includes major features advanced from the current ones.

Nice to know India's most Advanced fighter(Till the PAK-FA/FGFA gets here )is in continual development
Thank You Russians for helping us to make India Militarily stronger

 

[desiman]

please do some research than jumping in joy up and down as that makes a fool out of you senior member.

algerian su30MKA sold in 2007 was 80 odd million in 2007 and this is 2010.
this price includes the purchase and maintenance costs not lifetime costs as MLU and replaced parts in the future has to be bought separately

so please first know what u r saying as that dance of urs is becoming a joke

LCC cost in aviation do not include parts not covered in future parts estimations. Therefore the price tag of $100 million odd, does include LCC cost based on the estimates drawn during the contract negotiation stage. Its basically saying that if you break a part yourself, the cost will have to be paid by you but if the part is damaged and included in the initial LCC estimates then the part will be provided for free by the vendor.

 

[Indiarox]

YouTube - Russia hikes Sukhoi prices

I will call it sweet revange now they will take that much money if they were selling india a Mig 35 Fighter jet now i can see the friendship is only about money well in future if india see this attitude of russia continueing as in past with AC deal was the same story russias were not happy that indians buying american weapons in future india might not buy anything from them than russia will come close to pakistan and sell more weapons at half of price to make indians jealous well still long way to go for it well in time of recasion russian SU 30 MKI cost the double of each aircraft which india buys in MRCA well out of my mind why

For a senior member you messed up big time you talk bout Revenge for Mig-35 and put up "revenge That MI 35 got eliminated"
Even the Revenge for the MIG-35 is a flawed concept based on a page 3 journalists report.

I sincerely hope you know the difference between the Mig-35 and the MI-35

How could a senior member like you not tell the difference between a 4.5 gen supersonic Jet Fighter and a Helicopter gunship/partial transport.

 

[desiman]

Guys your making a huge mistake here which im noticing, please note this down,

Normal SCM and Pricing principles DO NOT APPLY to the aviation Industry, Concepts like LCC, LMC, SDLC etc etc vary heavily from other industries to the Aviation sector mainly because the timelines and Budgets in this sector are always stretched. It is also one of the only sectors which has such a high degree of politics and government involvement and also has huge ramifications on the budgets of the concerned countries. Do not generalize anything when it comes to this sector.

 

[Dash]

small correction
Su30 is given by the name Flanker-C
Su-34 is given by the name Fullback

I dont look at the names much until I get the messege right..
Anyway does that solve your query?

 

[Hud]

People criticizing this deal seems to have gone nuts. we are buying fighter plane not patotes. There are many things that are not in public domain and these are very much publicized deals will surely come under scanner CAG. And if CAG find any thing unusual they would rip the government apart. These Sukhois would have AESA radar and more stealth and Brahmos capable. And usually integrating new stuff on old platform cost more. And moreover we have to keep Russian in good humor so that they do not even think of selling any thing to Pakistan. And moreover the Russian are not very happy with Chinese owing to their reverse engineering habit and so we have to keep appeasing the Russian so that the relation sour with the yellow man.

 

[Ping]

People criticizing this deal seems to have gone nuts. we are buying fighter plane not patotes. There are many things that are not in public domain and these are very much publicized deals will surely come under scanner CAG. And if CAG find any thing unusual they would rip the government apart. These Sukhois would have AESA radar and more stealth and Brahmos capable. And usually integrating new stuff on old platform cost more. And moreover we have to keep Russian in good humor so that they do not even think of selling any thing to Pakistan. And moreover the Russian are not very happy with Chinese owing to their reverse engineering habit and so we have to keep appeasing the Russian so that the relation sour with the yellow man.

That is right. However CAG has already ripped apart the government for it.

There are couple of things which are mentioned wrong.

1: HAL manufactures the jets here, not Russia. So there is no issue of price rise by Russians to begin with. As usual our reporters who are fit to write only "celebrity gossip"are quick to jump to bash Russians by taking a calculator and dividing 4.3 billion by 42. What a buncha morons.

2: There is no such thing as a deal which includes maintenance before hand. No one signs such a deal! So this price rise is something else, and not due to maintenance.

3: The vast amount of price rise does not justify the upgrades. It is still too steep a price rise. And as mentioned now, there is a separate deal for upgrading 230 jets for 10,900 crores. So you can imagine the small amount of money which will go to the upgrades for only 42 jets.

4: As mentioned by 'HUD', CAG has nailed this one. The real culprit here is HAL and its incompetency. This article explains it.

How much does a Su-30MKI cost?

The Russian origin Sukhoi-30MKI is Indian Air force's Primary multirole fighter. Many deals were signed with varying costs and other factors. Here is a comprehensive research on how much it costs.

Deal 1(30th Nov 1996): 40 Su-30 jets(8 Su-30K(or MK1), 8 Su-30MK2, 12 Su-30MK3 & 12 Su-30MKI) costs Rs 5,122 crore($1,462 million).
Deal 2(Sep 1998): 10 Su-30K jets costs Rs 1,187 crore($277.01 million). Unit cost $27.7 million.

An additional $270 million was spent for replacing the Su-30K acquired in Deals 1 & 2 with new MKIs, as part of a new deal. Plus a further additional expenditure of Rs 1,188 crore for indigenous development and import of avionics system for the Su-30MKI.
Reference 1


Deal 3(Oct-Dec 2000): 140 Su-30MKI jets to be manufactured by HAL at a total cost of $4,809 million(Rs 22,122.78 crore). $4,809 million includes: Cost for license, ToT(Transfer of Technology), assistance & for setting up the production line in HAL(Hindustan Aeronautics Limited), $350 million or less for components procured from Irkut which wasn't manufactured by HAL, 26 aircraft kits supplied by Irkut & assembled by HAL, and the actual production in HAL. So the average cost of the HAL manufactured fighter is $34.35 million.

But that's not the whole story. Rs 22,122.78 crore for 140 aircraft in 2000 had to be revised to Rs 39,224.09 crore in July 2005. The cost is now estimated to be more than Rs 45,000 crore. For exchange rate of 46 Rupees for every U.S dollar that translates to $4809 million, $8527 million & $9783 million respectively. So price of each HAL manufactured Su-30MKI has increased from $34.35 million in 2000, to $61 million in 2005, to finally $70 million currently, according to CAG's(Comptroller and Auditor General of India) estimation.
Reference 2


Deal 4(2007): A new deal was signed for fast track acquisition of 40 Su-30MKI jets from Russia. Quoting ACM Tyagi "The deal will be signed within this financial year. They will come for a little less than $40 million apiece"
Reference 3


Deal 5: Initially it was reported that 50 Su-30MKI jets are to be acquired from HAL. Unit flyaway cost around $45 million. So the total cost will be around $2250 million. However the deal was revised to only 42 jets. The cost of the deal is reported to be $4.3 billion, which includes some upgrades. It appears CAG's estimation of cost overruns in Deal 3, is finally allocated in this deal.
Reference 4
Reference 5
Reference 6

How much does a Su-30MKI really cost?

 

[Ping]

HAL, due to its incompetency, has run outta money while manufacturing the 140 fighters, as correctly predicted by CAG, and now more money is allocated to HAL to continue production of 42 jets plus the 50-60 or so jets from the 140 jets initially allocated to HAL(HAL has finished manufacturing some 80-90 jets till date IIRC). In India, it seems the only organization which reports the truth and is not corrupt is CAG. God bless CAG!

 

[flanker143]

Sukhoi Upgrade To Cost Rs 10,920 Cr

Defence minister says enhanced features will cost exchequer Rs10,920 crore

Suman Sharma NEW DELHI
After admitting an astronomical 155% rise in the price of Sukhoi-30 MKIs, defence minister AK Antony told parliament on Wednesday that there was a proposal to upgrade the Indian Air Force's (IAF's) mainstay heavyweight Russian fighters for Rs10,920 crore.

The upgrade will be carried out by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and Russian Federation's Irkutsk, the original equipment manufacturer (OEM), in a phased manner from 2012.

Sukhois entered service in 2000, after being approved in 1997, and have not undergone any upgrade since.

IAF operates approximately 200 Sukhois, all of which would have upgraded data systems and digital glass cockpits after a contract is signed to the effect.

Sukhoi CEO Mikhail Pogosyan had several meetings with vice-chief air marshal PK Barbora during the MAKS air show last year to sort out configuration of the upgraded radar as specified by IAF. By 2018, the number of Sukhois is set to reach 270, making India the largest operator of the twin-engine aircraft in the world.

Asked about the upgrade schedule, a source told DNA, "It's a continuous process beginning 2012. All aircraft will be upgraded eventually."
The upgrade price per piece is reportedly between Rs70 crore and Rs110 crore.

 

[Indiarox]

I dont look at the names much until I get the messege right..
Anyway does that solve your query?

It does now because the Su-30 and Su-34 are very different aircrafts

 

[inddef]

That is right. However CAG has already ripped apart the government for it.

There are couple of things which are mentioned wrong.

1: HAL manufactures the jets here, not Russia. So there is no issue of price rise by Russians to begin with. As usual our reporters who are fit to write only "celebrity gossip"are quick to jump to bash Russians by taking a calculator and dividing 4.3 billion by 42. What a buncha morons.

2: There is no such thing as a deal which includes maintenance before hand. No one signs such a deal! So this price rise is something else, and not due to maintenance.

3: The vast amount of price rise does not justify the upgrades. It is still too steep a price rise. And as mentioned now, there is a separate deal for upgrading 230 jets for 10,900 crores. So you can imagine the small amount of money which will go to the upgrades for only 42 jets.

4: As mentioned by 'HUD', CAG has nailed this one. The real culprit here is HAL and its incompetency. This article explains it.

How much does a Su-30MKI cost?

The Russian origin Sukhoi-30MKI is Indian Air force's Primary multirole fighter. Many deals were signed with varying costs and other factors. Here is a comprehensive research on how much it costs.

Deal 1(30th Nov 1996): 40 Su-30 jets(8 Su-30K(or MK1), 8 Su-30MK2, 12 Su-30MK3 & 12 Su-30MKI) costs Rs 5,122 crore($1,462 million).
Deal 2(Sep 1998): 10 Su-30K jets costs Rs 1,187 crore($277.01 million). Unit cost $27.7 million.

An additional $270 million was spent for replacing the Su-30K acquired in Deals 1 & 2 with new MKIs, as part of a new deal. Plus a further additional expenditure of Rs 1,188 crore for indigenous development and import of avionics system for the Su-30MKI.
Reference 1


Deal 3(Oct-Dec 2000): 140 Su-30MKI jets to be manufactured by HAL at a total cost of $4,809 million(Rs 22,122.78 crore). $4,809 million includes: Cost for license, ToT(Transfer of Technology), assistance & for setting up the production line in HAL(Hindustan Aeronautics Limited), $350 million or less for components procured from Irkut which wasn't manufactured by HAL, 26 aircraft kits supplied by Irkut & assembled by HAL, and the actual production in HAL. So the average cost of the HAL manufactured fighter is $34.35 million.

But that's not the whole story. Rs 22,122.78 crore for 140 aircraft in 2000 had to be revised to Rs 39,224.09 crore in July 2005. The cost is now estimated to be more than Rs 45,000 crore. For exchange rate of 46 Rupees for every U.S dollar that translates to $4809 million, $8527 million & $9783 million respectively. So price of each HAL manufactured Su-30MKI has increased from $34.35 million in 2000, to $61 million in 2005, to finally $70 million currently, according to CAG's(Comptroller and Auditor General of India) estimation.
Reference 2


Deal 4(2007): A new deal was signed for fast track acquisition of 40 Su-30MKI jets from Russia. Quoting ACM Tyagi "The deal will be signed within this financial year. They will come for a little less than $40 million apiece"
Reference 3


Deal 5: Initially it was reported that 50 Su-30MKI jets are to be acquired from HAL. Unit flyaway cost around $45 million. So the total cost will be around $2250 million. However the deal was revised to only 42 jets. The cost of the deal is reported to be $4.3 billion, which includes some upgrades. It appears CAG's estimation of cost overruns in Deal 3, is finally allocated in this deal.
Reference 4
Reference 5
Reference 6

How much does a Su-30MKI really cost?

i want my taxes back from these incompetent idiots.

 

[Indiarox]

i want my taxes back from these incompetent idiots.

Are you even an indian

 

[inddef]

if you pay taxes, you should be sensitive to how corrupt officials can make merry out of your hard earned money.

indian and russia have both got highly corrupt governments, we have to be careful.

 

[Indiarox]

if you pay taxes,

Yes I do pay taxes

you should be sensitive to how corrupt officials can make merry out of your hard earned money.

indian and russia have both got highly corrupt governments, we have to be careful.

How do you intend to be "sensitive" do explain??

 

[inddef]

Yes I do pay taxes


How do you intend to be "sensitive" do explain??

by being hawkish and critical when tax money is wasted. india is too poor for small government ideas and we are growing fast, which gives the impression that spending like a drunk sailor is ok.

its not, and the smart people in the country should realize that. there are people here who think risking 4B on a project or spending 5B on transport aircraft isn't a big deal. it is.

i don't expect to see small government and tax hawkishness in the next 50 years i hate to say.

anyway, the point is that the russian government is much more corrupt than the US one and indian taxpayers have a higher chance of getting fleeced by overpriced deals with kickbacks.