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Russia delays India aircraft carrier by 3 yrs

This order was reduced to 4,

Yes, China watchers rubbished the idea that they might have a 3carrier force by 2020. China is not even a amateur in carrier deployment, heck they never had a carrier!!

Well they still have the option for up to 48 more. And they have shown the ability to learn quickly. They have gotten hold of two carriers to study and get some planning done. fleet operations and doctrine can be done with a large vessel playing the part of a carrier so the carrier does not need to be there in order for that training to be done. Deck operations will be tricky but then they will be tricky for India too when they transition into a non harrier environment.

Oh and most of the watchers I have seen have been behind the 2020 figure. The 2016 figure is too optimistic. As for your comment regards to China only showing stuff...I think you will find that they only comment when they need to...Rather than boast before something is completed.
 
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Indian Carrier Operations are more than 50 years old!!! I would expect a soldier like you when it comes to training, give the credit due.
 
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China plans to build its first aircraft carrier - news agency
11:02 | 06/ 07/ 2007



HONG KONG, July 6 (RIA Novosti) - China is close to beginning construction of its first aircraft carrier to expand the operational and strategic capabilities of the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN), a Chinese news agency said Friday.

KANWA News cited sources in the Chinese defense industry as saying that several companies had received contracts on the development of systems and components for the future aircraft carrier.

"This indicates that the decision on construction of the aircraft carrier has been made, and its characteristics have been outlined," the agency said, adding that a shipbuilding company based in Shanghai could be chosen as the main project contractor.

So far, Chinese shipyards have been building fast-attack missile patrol boats, dock landing ships, frigates and destroyers, many with stealthy, high-tech features common on Western warships.

Although Beijing consistently denied media reports saying that China could build its first aircraft carrier as early as 2010, Chinese officials admitted in March that the country was conducting research in aircraft carrier technologies.

Russia has long been offering China assistance in the development of its own aircraft carrier.

Alexander Denisov, head of Russia's weapons procurement agency, said last year at Airshow China 2006 that such assistance would not violate international norms in the light of the EU embargo on exports of military equipment to China, following the repression of student demonstrations in Tiananmen Square in 1989.

Regional media attention has recently been focused on the Varyag, an incomplete Russian carrier which was towed to China in 2002.

China bought the ship, which lacked any electronic equipment and weaponry, at an auction in Ukraine and put in a PLAN dry-dock in Dalian.

Although the Varyag arrived in a dilapidated condition, it was cleaned and painted in 2005, and experts believe the Chinese are seriously considering completing the ship.

Russia has provided many of China's new ships, including the Sovremenny-class destroyers and Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines, and there are indications that China will continue to rely on Russian naval construction capabilities.

Russia is currently not building any major surface or submarine warships for China, but it could sell China the Zubr large amphibious assault hovercraft, a large number of Kamov naval troop assault helicopters, and Beriev Be-200 turbofan-powered seaplanes, KANWA News said.

Moscow might also provide aircraft for the future Chinese carrier. Rosoboronexport, Russia's state arms export monopoly, is reportedly in talks on the sale to China of about 50 Su-33 Naval Flanker ship-borne fighters, worth $2.5 billion.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20070706/68460904.html
 
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Indian Carrier Operations are more than 50 years old!!! I would expect a soldier like you when it comes to training, give the credit due.

British carrier operations are much older than that but if they suddenly got a nimitz class vessel they would have to retrain and adapt. Same goes with any other navy. The Gorshkov will be a different beast to operating a system where aircraft would not have to be arrested on landing.
 
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HONG KONG, July 27 (RIA Novosti) - Kanwa, a Hong Kong defense news agency, said Friday purchases by China of Russian aircraft carrier components suggested that Beijing was planning to build one or two aircraft carriers, possibly by 2015.

The agency cited a senior source in the Russian Navy, saying that Russia and China have an agreement to purchase four deck landing systems capable of handling heavy deck-based fighters such as the Su-33 Flanker.

Kanwa experts suggested that one landing system would be studied and copied, and another would be installed on the Varyag, a Soviet-made carrier, which was bought incomplete from Ukraine for $20 million in 1998 by a Macao tourist agency.

The agency, Diversoes Chong Lot Limitada, promised to convert the ship into a large "riverboat casino," but disappeared shortly after the Varyag was towed to the Chinese port of Dalian. Regional media have repeatedly suggested China would use the Varyag as a template for its own carriers.

Two other deck landing systems, Kanwa expert Andrei Chang said, will be installed on two new carriers China unconvincingly denies it is going to build. He said the recent purchase of a T10K, an earlier version of the Su-33, from Ukraine, demonstrates that China also plans to build its own deck-based long-range fighter.

Official confirmation of the carrier project was likely to be made after the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing.

"Until then we will probably not hear anything official on this issue; moreover, Chinese docks are unable to handle such large projects at the moment," he said

The project, he said, could be announced in 2009-2012 and completed in 2013-2017.

Last year, Alexander Denisov, who runs Russia's agency for military-technical cooperation and headed the Russian delegation at the Air Show China 2006 in Zhuhai, said Russia could help China with building an aircraft carrier if they asked for assistance. This March, a senior Chinese official conceded that Beijing was studying the possibility.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20070727/69828953.html
 
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In my humble opinion it will take 2-3 years for the varyag to set sail, and more than 4-5 years for determine doctrine and tactics. The most important fact, Everything about the varyag is speculation now with very less substance. China will not put a carrier into sea, unless and until they are sure it is not fat target, but rather a very able tool, which is not going to be happen any time soon.
 
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British carrier operations are much older than that but if they suddenly got a nimitz class vessel they would have to retrain and adapt. Same goes with any other navy. The Gorshkov will be a different beast to operating a system where aircraft would not have to be arrested on landing.

Yes, But the Indians and Brits are going to take atleast 2-3 years to adapt to the new carrier class, while chinese are going to take far far more than that.
 
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An aircraft carrier for China?

BEIJING As China builds a military to match its growing economic power, its neighbors and potential rivals including the United States have puzzled over a key question: When will the Chinese Navy launch an aircraft carrier?

For decades, senior Chinese military and political officials have argued that for the country to become a great power, the People's Liberation Army Navy needs to add these potent warships to its fleet.

However, the major obstacle to this ambition is that aircraft carriers are hugely expensive.

The two 50,000-metric-ton conventionally powered carriers now under development for Britain's Royal Navy are expected to cost a minimum of $2.5 billion each. To outfit them with aircraft could cost that much again.

And, aircraft carriers do not operate alone. They need a fleet of warships, submarines and supply vessels along with advanced electronic surveillance for support and protection.

For these reasons, most experts assumed a Chinese carrier was decades away.

But after double-digit increases in defense spending over much of the past 15 years, evidence is now emerging that China has a more ambitious timetable.

"I am convinced that before the end of this decade, we will see preparations for China to build its first indigenous aircraft carrier," said Rick Fisher, the Washington-based vice president of the International Assessment and Strategy Center and an expert on the Chinese military.

Fisher and other analysts note that extensive work now appears to be under way on a carrier purchased from Ukraine, the Varyag, now moored in the northern Chinese port of Dalian.

They speculate that the Varyag, fresh from the dry dock and, according to recent photographs, now painted in the navy's gray, could be used for training or even upgraded so that it was fully operational.

Not surprisingly, the Taiwan military has also been monitoring activity on the Varyag.

At a briefing in Taipei on Jan. 19, a Taiwan military spokesman, Liu Chih-chien, pointed to satellite photographs of the carrier at anchor in Dalian, where he said it had been under repair.

"Although China claimed that the Varyag will be used as a tourist attraction, the aircraft carrier would actually be used as a training ship in preparation for building an aircraft carrier battle group," Liu said.

Analysts also report that at recent international air shows, Chinese military officers have been showing strong interest in strike aircraft suited to fly from carriers.

As with earlier reports that the Chinese Navy intended to acquire aircraft carriers, Beijing denied Taiwan's claim.

"We don't know where the Taiwanese authorities got their so-called intelligence," said Li Weiyi, a spokesman for China's Taiwan Affairs Office, according to a report carried last week by the official Xinhua news agency.

Whatever the timetable, most naval experts agree that China will almost certainly build or buy aircraft carriers.

"Given China's strategic ambitions, it's a logical move," said Sam Bateman, a maritime security expert at Singapore's Institute of Defense and Strategic Studies.

"I am sure the PLAN has carrier aspirations," he said, referring to the People's Liberation Army Navy.

Bateman said that, like the United States, two of China's neighbors, India and Japan, would be anxious about the prospect of carriers in the Chinese fleet.

What is clear is that China has already invested decades of effort in its bid to gain the technology and skills needed to build and operate these warships.

Admiral Liu Huaqing, vice chairman of China's Central Military Commission before his retirement in 1997, is widely regarded as the father of the navy's aircraft carrier program.

Heavily influenced by his exposure to top Russian naval experts during his studies in the Soviet Union as a young officer in the 1950s, Liu advocated that China should have aircraft carriers as the backbone of a "blue water" navy that could deploy beyond the country's coastal waters.

In military journals published in the 1990s he wrote that aircraft carriers would ensure China's control over Taiwan and territories it claimed in the South China Sea and match the growing military power of neighbors including Japan and India.

Liu, along with other senior Chinese defense analysts, also recognized that China was becoming a major trading power and would become increasingly dependent on secure sea lanes to carry its imports of energy and raw materials and exports of manufactured goods.

They argued that aircraft carriers would give the navy the ability to keep these sea lanes open in times of conflict or international tension.

Other analysts also say that a carrier would be symbolically important as evidence of Chinese power in the same way that U.S. Navy's aircraft carrier battle groups serve as a reminder of America's global reach.

Early work on the feasibility of building a carrier began in Shanghai in the early 1980s but the first clear sign of China's ambition came in 1985 when China bought a decommissioned Australian aircraft carrier, apparently for scrap.

However, before the vessel was dismantled, Chinese experts studied the design of this carrier and used the flight deck for pilot training, according to naval analysts.

The disintegration of the once-powerful Soviet Navy after the collapse of the Soviet Union provided further opportunities to study the design and construction of modern carriers.

Senior defense officials in Japan and Southeast Asia were intrigued when Chinese companies bought two decommissioned Russian antisubmarine carriers, the Minsk and Kiev, but speculation that these would have some military role in China proved groundless.

The Minsk was converted into a floating museum in Shenzhen, and the Kiev is also being modified, to serve as a floating tourist attraction in Tianjin.

In the 1990s, a number of countries including Spain and France signaled that they would be prepared to build or sell an aircraft carrier to China but Beijing apparently declined these overtures.

Some experts on the Chinese military say that plans to build or buy a carrier were shelved after 1997 with the retirement of Liu and renewed emphasis on military preparations to fight a war over Taiwan if the island declared independence.

Taiwan's proximity to the mainland means land-based Chinese aircraft and missiles would be well within range in the event of a conflict.

As recently as 2003 in its annual report to Congress on China's military, the Pentagon said China appeared to have "set aside indefinitely" its plans to acquire a carrier.

Instead, the Chinese military seemed intent on developing the firepower to sink aircraft carriers, a move clearly aimed at deterring the United States if it decided to intervene in any conflict over Taiwan.

This included a rapid upgrade of China's conventional and nuclear submarine fleet, the delivery of advanced Russian surface warships armed with supersonic missiles and an expanded force of Russian-made and domestically produced strike aircraft.

However, the purchase for $20 million of the 67,500-metric-ton Varyag from Ukraine in 1998 suggested that Beijing retained a strong desire for aircraft carriers and a blue-water navy.

The Varyag was still under construction in a Ukrainian shipyard when the Soviet Union collapsed and neither Russia nor Ukraine had the funds to complete the work.

A Macao-based company with close ties to the Chinese armed forces bought the carrier without engines, rudders or armament and said it would be moored in the former Portuguese colony as a floating casino.

At the time, most analysts said this seemed an unlikely explanation for the purchase because Macao's harbor was far too shallow to berth a warship of this size.

After a long delay while Turkish authorities, fearful of the danger to shipping, refused permission for the carrier to be towed through the Bosporus, the Varyag was eventually delivered to the Dalian shipyard in 2002.

The fact that Beijing went to great diplomatic lengths to persuade Turkish authorities to allow the transit was seen by some experts as further evidence of China's determination to improve its understanding of carrier technology.

There is tight security surrounding the Varyag in Dalian harbor, but work on the vessel is clearly visible from nearby highways.

Recent photographs show extensive repairs or maintenance to the carrier's superstructure and deck.

"There is a lot of work happening on that thing which is not consistent with a gambling casino," Fisher said.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/30/business/carrier.php
 
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These are quite old articles.

varyag is in PLAN colours, it is no longer associated with the casino
 
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Yes, But the Indians and Brits are going to take atleast 2-3 years to adapt to the new carrier class, while chinese are going to take far far more than that.

1) you are assuming that they have not been doing a LOT of preparation for carrier ops from experience gained from the Melbourne and learning from experience gained from other sources.

2) As I have stated before it is possible to do other training using a large ship to simulate a carrier for escort training. Fire and damage control duties are aided by newer training techniques.

Obviously some will take longer than others but you assume lots of preparation will not be done.
 
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I am assuming all the others you have mentioned, they arent going to any war-like deployment soon with a new carrier.
THey are no way going to learn how to do carrier operations by learning a book, if the Indians and brits are going to take 2 years- 3 years, I would and I damn sure you do to, expect them to take more than 3 years.
 
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Russia to deliver Gorshkov on schedule: Sibal

Moscow, Aug 13: Russia will deliver aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov to India as per schedule as stakes are "very high" for both the countries in the flagship defence project, India’s outgoing ambassador Kanwal Sibal said.

"Officially the Russian government has communicated to us in writing that Gorshkov will be delivered on schedule. If the situation were to change we would have been communicated in writing," Sibal said commenting on media reports about delay in the delivery of Kiev class aircraft carrier to the Indian navy.

"We have monitoring teams on the ground at Sevmash shipyard and are aware of the situation on the ground," the envoy said addressing a news conference here at the end of his three year Moscow stint.

Earlier, Russian media had reported about the delay of two-three years in delivery of retrofitted aircraft carrier against the delivery schedule of August 2008, mainly due to cost escalation and ill financing.

"Gorshkov is a flagship project of our defence cooperation. It is a high visibility project and its timely implementation would have impact on public opinion in India and demonstrate to the international community Russia's technological capability. So the stakes are very high for both the countries," Sibal observed.

Russian government has dismissed the director of Severodvinsk (north Russia) based Sevmash shipyard for the slippage in the schedule of Gorshkov upgrade and is believed to be making efforts on war footing to complete the USD 1.5 bn contract signed in January 2005 on time.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=9240
 
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