Russia blocks RD-93 to Pakistan?

[Cheetah786]

The new Chinese fighter-bomber today represents little threat to the Russian share of the fighter market. Even in China the J-10 is unlikely to compete with the license-produced Su-27 or the imported Su-30MK. However, everything about the current version of the J-10 that we have seen says that it is a transitional model. Already Chengdu is moving toward a two-engine version that would incorporate LO geometry and expanded air-to-ground capability.
Looking at the striking progress of the J-10 (especially in comparison to Russia's own slow-paced development of the next-generation interceptor MFI and the attack aircraft LFS) it should be expected that the future development of the J-10 may be only 3-6 years away. And this will be the aircraft that may eventually encroach on Russia's traditional fighter export market and not just Russia's. This may happen sooner than many Russian and Western analysts believe today. For Russia the J-10 and its derivatives may be what the MiG-15 was for the West half-a-century ago: a rather unpleasant surprise.
Russians had to reproduce a Rolls-Royce jet in secret and at great expense to put it on its MiG-15. Today there is no need for such extreme measures: all essential advanced components are readily available. What really matters is experience with integrating these systems to produce a fighter aircraft. The J-10 clearly shows that China is rapidly gaining this experience.

The new Chinese fighter-bomber will be a welcome addition to the PLAAF, considerably boosting the service's tactical offensive capabilities. Taiwan's Western technological edge is quickly melting away and China's military buildup inevitably leads to restoring the country's territorial integrity. The J-10 is a significant piece of this great wall being built around Taiwan.

 

[Contrarian]

whatever
lets just wait and see whether PAF gets the engines or not. If not then its a long wait indeed for JF-17.

 

[Neo]

Still no news from China or Pakistan, not even from Putin yet.
I expect eight JF-17"s to be delivered to Pakistan with RD-93 as part of the deal.

We would have to deal with the production line starting from January 2008 if rumors are correct.

 

[Adux]

Still no news from China or Pakistan, not even from Putin yet.
I expect eight JF-17"s to be delivered to Pakistan with RD-93 as part of the deal.

We would have to deal with the production line starting from January 2008 if rumors are correct.

It was said by Sergi Ivanov The defence minster of Russia on approval Joint Russia-India 5th genration fighter program

 

[HAIDER]

BANGALORE, Jan 23 (Bernama) -- Russian Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov has denied speculations that Russia blocked supplies of Chinese jet fighters to Pakistan, its news agency Itar-Tass reported Tuesday.

"Russia blocks nothing - this is our policy," he said on Tuesday in reply to an Indian journalist's question. "In military-technical cooperation with any state we always adhere to one very simple principle, it's even not our obligation, but international law - an end user certificate," he said.

Ivanov, who is also the Defence Minsiter said Russia sells arms only if such a certificate is available and controls how it is complied with.

In general, political considerations and not only economic ones often matter in military-technical cooperation, he said.

http://webevents.bernama.com/ssig/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6981

 

[Neo]

Was this statement made before or after the 5th generation fighter JV was signed?

 

[Adux]

Neo

After, I think the news report is there on the 5th generation Thread in Indian Military watch.

 

[melb4aust]

Neo

After, I think the news report is there on the 5th generation Thread in Indian Military watch.

hahun....., confirm report..... dont speculate "after"

 

[salman77]

BANGALORE, Jan 23 (Bernama) -- Russian Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov has denied speculations that Russia blocked supplies of Chinese jet fighters to Pakistan, its news agency Itar-Tass reported Tuesday.

"Russia blocks nothing - this is our policy," he said on Tuesday in reply to an Indian journalist's question. "In military-technical cooperation with any state we always adhere to one very simple principle, it's even not our obligation, but international law - an end user certificate," he said.

Ivanov, who is also the Defence Minsiter said Russia sells arms only if such a certificate is available and controls how it is complied with.

In general, political considerations and not only economic ones often matter in military-technical cooperation, he said.

http://webevents.bernama.com/ssig/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6981

This statement was made before the 5th generation fighter JV was signed? I read about this on another forum earlier.

 

[Contrarian]

"Russia blocks nothing - this is our policy," he said on Tuesday in reply to an Indian journalist's question. "In military-technical cooperation with any state we always adhere to one very simple principle, it's even not our obligation, but international law - an end user certificate," he said.

Ivanov, who is also the Defence Minsiter said Russia sells arms only if such a certificate is available and controls how it is complied with.

I believe mate, that the statement says that Russia in principle does not block sales to any country, but it expects China to follow the EULA. And the EULA says pretty clearly that the engines cannot be re-exported to any third country.
Russia is not blocking any equipment, it expects China to follow the agreement that it has made. Russia only sells equipment to a country that it has signed an EULA with.

 

[Adux]

JF-17 Program grounded

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
The JF-17/FC-1 is a sub-$20 million fighter designed as a co-operative venture between Pakistan and China to replace F-7P (MiG-21+) and Mirage 3/5 aircraft in Pakistan's fleet. China also has options to produce them, but has made no firm decisions and seems unenthusiastic. It's a comparable peer for India's still-under-development LCA Tejas, Taiwan's ****-1 Ching Kuo fighters, and South Korea's T/A-50 Golden Eagle supersonic trainer & light fighter. Sino Defense reminds us that the JF-17/FC-1 'Xiaolong' has a long history...

There's only one problem: Russia has just refused permission for the transfer of its RD-93 engines, derived from the RD-33 that equips the MiG-29. The decision comes only a few days after a visit to India by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov, during which a number of joint defense projects were discussed and agreements were signed. These include the MRTA transport aircraft, and reportedly a "5th generation fighter" project, even as the MiG-29OVT/MiG-35 is touted as the likely winner of the multi-billion MRCA fighter contract.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...index.php#more


From a very credible News source

 

[blain2]

JF-17 Program grounded

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
The JF-17/FC-1 is a sub-$20 million fighter designed as a co-operative venture between Pakistan and China to replace F-7P (MiG-21+) and Mirage 3/5 aircraft in Pakistan's fleet. China also has options to produce them, but has made no firm decisions and seems unenthusiastic. It's a comparable peer for India's still-under-development LCA Tejas, Taiwan's ****-1 Ching Kuo fighters, and South Korea's T/A-50 Golden Eagle supersonic trainer & light fighter. Sino Defense reminds us that the JF-17/FC-1 'Xiaolong' has a long history...

There's only one problem: Russia has just refused permission for the transfer of its RD-93 engines, derived from the RD-33 that equips the MiG-29. The decision comes only a few days after a visit to India by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov, during which a number of joint defense projects were discussed and agreements were signed. These include the MRTA transport aircraft, and reportedly a "5th generation fighter" project, even as the MiG-29OVT/MiG-35 is touted as the likely winner of the multi-billion MRCA fighter contract.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...index.php#more


From a very credible News source

Excuse my french but the report is BS!

There has been nothing, and I emphasize Nothing to suggest that JF-17 program has been grounded. Most people do not even know that Chinese and the PAF have been working on the WS-13 option and have had some inkling of possible Russian problems with the re-export for the past two years. There is no insider reporting and its purely speculation based on reports denying the re-export to 3rd countries. JDW, DID etc. etc. make plenty of conjectures and assumptions which are proven wrong quite often....if I were you, I would take this with a grain of salt.

 

[Neo]

You have a point there Blain, we've come way to far to ground the project when in its final stage.
Imho Chinese and Pakistani officials would have given an statement if the rumors were correct.

 

[blain2]

You have a point there Blain, we've come way to far to ground the project when in its final stage.
Imho Chinese and Pakistani officials would have given an statement if the rumors were correct.

Its not for them to do so. Until and unless they receive something directly from the Russians through official communications, nothing has to be responded to.

 

[alamgir]

how russia agree first to supply rd-93 to china, when russia clearly know that this is a joint venture of china and pakistan,russia can only object if it go to an other country out of pakistan or china