Russia blocks RD-93 to Pakistan?

[Bull]

I think Russia is pretty much on board. It won't hurt it's business just to delay the JF-17 project for the sake of India. I mean if Russia could really get the project canceled then it perhaps might, since that could secure big business from India..

Well thats the bigges blunder we all are making here, the rejectin of RD93 doesnt leave JF-17 cancelled, it just delays it. It can still be operation before the LCA flys. LCA is suppose to get the IOC in 2009 and that is a long 2 years away. By then easily PAF canstart inducting JF-17 with Ws-13 engines.

At first a few planes would arrive in Pakistan this year under the garb of demonstrations and training the pilots using the RD-93 engine. Later on, China will claim to have completed the WS-13 and actually just be selling the RD-93 to us. Further later when it would be a WS-13 with a lot of Russian parts and eventually in 2-3 years we'd have a fully working WS-13. Why would be able to pull this off? Because obviously Russia's on board.

The thing you have to understand is that Indians arnt fools, neither are the Russians to think Indians are so.

 

[Bull]

C'mon India doesn't have the financial capability to turn down cheap Russian weapons. Plus India's buying from Americans and Israelis too. If India can two-time Russia, Russia can't two-time India?..

Whats the point Asim?

China is not on par with India but significantly ahead. Selling to Pak could also mean breaking in with traditionally American Arab market. ..

Traditonal arab american market? Syrians and Iranians are already buying.

India cannot afford to lose Russia, Russia would still have others if India ditched them. ..

Who will fill in the void? India is the largest purchaser of arms in the world, for gods' sake understand that.

Seriously if it sold to Pakistan India would cancel off its plans to acquire 200 Su-30MKIs? It's tied in with Russia for the development of its 5th gen fighter too now..

We both are tied, why did Russia come to us for jt development?

You are talking as if you have the upper hand in this relationship.

You are assuming we have totally "no say"

 

[Contrarian]

Who said Pakistan is replacing India? They would simply employ the US policy. Sell to whoever wants to buy.

In that case, India will cease to buy from Russia. We can buy from whatever from whichever damn country we chose. Russia knows this full well. Its no longer the cold war. There are no restrictions for us.

Apart from that Russia knows full well, the status of the rising countries. With more money to spend, India is going to be buying copious amount of arms in the comming years. Russia also realises that India is a growing power, it cannot berak off the alliance they have with us. Russia would need India.She in no way can ignore India, they also has Chechenya problems. Over all the thing is, Russians are not going to give RD-93 engines to Pakistan covertly, if the planes get the official nod, then its fine, but it aint gonna be a covert assistance.

 

[Keysersoze]

Russia Signed AL-31 Engine Deal with China

According to the report of Russia media Kommersant, the Russian state-owned arms trading company Rosoboroneksport has concluded a US$300 million deal for the export of 100 modified AL-31FN turbofan engines from the Salyut Moscow Machine Building Production Enterprise to China. These engine will be fitted on the PLA Air Force’s latest indigenous J-10 fighter aircraft.

The report confirmed the earlier speculation that China had received 54 Salyut-made AL-31FP turbofan engines for a test fleet of J-10s between 2002 and 2004. Later Salyut, through Rosoboroneksport, successfully negotiated the sale of the engine for mass production of the fighter aircraft.

An official of Salyut stated that the deal, which is the latest of their deals with China, is for 100 modified AL-31FN engines worth more than US$300 million. He clearly confirmed that these engines will not be installed Russian-made fighters, but Chinese. “The contract allows us to enlarge the spectrum of our collaboration with China while avoiding ties to production only of engines of the Sukhoi family,” he said.

Salyut services and renovates engines for Su-27SK and Su-30MK2 fighters delivered to Beijing previously. A US$100 million contract was recently concluded for the delivery of parts for those engines over the next three years. It is understood that Salyut signed that contract directly, since it has a five-year license for the independent delivery of spare parts and technical servicing. It received that license in September 2002.

Experts say that the total demand of China for AL-31FN engines is 250, which could earn Russia about $900 million. Obviously, after receipt of the first lot of engines, China will sign a new contract with Salyut.

The contract with Salyut is the second within three months for the delivery of Russian engines for Chinese fighter planes. At the beginning of April, Rosoboroneksport signed a contract with Beijing for the sale of 100 RD-93 engines for the new Chinese FC-1 for $267 million. The engine was developed by the Klimov plant based on the RD-33 used in the improved MiG-29. Mass production of the RD-93 for China will be carried out at the Chernyshev plant in Moscow. Beijing's total demand for RD-93 will be about 500 pieces.

http://www.sinodefence.com/news/2005/news05-07-31.asp

That will indicate that if there is no demand for the engines (no export sales) then China will probably cancel a $1 billion order..........

 

[Adux]

Keyserose,

First of all it is sinodefence, secondly I rather take the word of Russian defence minister

 

[Regal]

I am going to put an end to this “Engine issue” once and for all for everybody's convenience. :army: All i would say to the members on this forum who are currently in Pakistan is to make sure you take your cameras with you to the 23rd, March parade. You will get plenty of chance to take pictures of JF-17.

 

[Bull]

I am going to put an end to this “Engine issue” once and for all for everybody's convenience. :army: All i would say to the members on this forum who are currently in Pakistan is to make sure you take your cameras with you to the 23rd, March parade. You will get plenty of chance to take pictures of JF-17.

We are not saying JF-17 wont be seen flying, it can very well fly on the
Mar 23rd parade. The chineese are going to ship in two/ three JF-17 powered by a RD-93.

But the issue is can pakistan commision a plane with the Russian engine.

 

[Iceman2]

i think we don't give a damn about which engine is powering Jf-17 the bottom line is it will fly in PAF..

 

[Bull]

i think we don't give a damn about which engine is powering Jf-17 the bottom line is it will fly in PAF..

My point was the it is not difficult to get a JF-17 flying in a ceremony, but getting it inducted is a totally different story.

 

[Neo]

Bull,

Honestly I believe its all a media stunt, why else would it coincide with Putin's visit to India? The project is almost a decade old, don't you think Russia might have raised the EULA issue earlier when the first flight flew?

I know, many internet warriors have been wetdreaming eversince the report was released and even if the JF-17 flew on March 23rd, and inshallah it will, it won't be enough to make them shut up.:wall:

 

[Bull]

Bull,

Honestly I believe its all a media stunt, why else would it coincide with Putin's visit to India? The project is almost a decade old, don't you think Russia might have raised the EULA issue earlier when the first flight flew?:

Russia is playing the game, its keeping India hooked onto it.

I know, many internet warriors have been wetdreaming eversince the report was released and even if the JF-17 flew on March 23rd, and inshallah it will, it won't be enough to make them shut up.:wall:

Definitly no. It is already flying in Chian, so whats the big deal about in flying above in Islamabad. Let mushraff say the planes flying above have been inducted.

 

[PakSniper]

We are not saying JF-17 wont be seen flying, it can very well fly on the
Mar 23rd parade. The chineese are going to ship in two/ three JF-17 powered by a RD-93.

But the issue is can Pakistan commission a plane with the Russian engine.

Stop making stupid accusations,. if you read WS-13 recent news (you can go find it by googling it),. that it is now in the testing phase, theirs a link on PDF in air-force section posted by a chinese member, as well in PakDef, the news is just 4-7 days old.

Plus,. this whole engine issue was spread from Indian news' which most people don't even hold it credible news, we just going to have to wait on 23 of March.

 

[Regal]

We are not saying JF-17 wont be seen flying, it can very well fly on the
Mar 23rd parade. The chineese are going to ship in two/ three JF-17 powered by a RD-93.

But the issue is can pakistan commision a plane with the Russian engine.

Dear respected member,
Countries don’t work like individuals or for that matter small/medium business when it comes to buying or selling, especially military hardware.
To put some light on this issue lets just look at Lockheed. As we all know they have offered customized f-16s to India. Do you think they would’ve done that without American government’s approval or without knowing they might not be able to sell this plane to India with there specified requirements??? The answer is NO.
I am not going to tell you how I know this, but one thing is certain JF-17 will not only fly on Pakistan day parade, but it will be inducted as planed.
People of any country tend to believe what they see day/night in media, and to be honest with you India is no exception. As a matter of fact this statement holds true to India more so then any other country except may be for United States.
To put it simply Russia is playing this game to perfection, and even after selling the technology of Rd-93 to China, at the end they will make It look like the Chinese have copy/stole or are using there own indigenous WS-13 engine. :army:

 

[Keysersoze]

Dear respected member,
Countries don’t work like individuals or for that matter small/medium business when it comes to buying or selling, especially military hardware.
To put some light on this issue lets just look at Lockheed. As we all know they have offered customized f-16s to India. Do you think they would’ve done that without American government’s approval or without knowing they might not be able to sell this plane to India with there specified requirements??? The answer is NO.
I am not going to tell you how I know this, but one thing is certain JF-17 will not only fly on Pakistan day parade, but it will be inducted as planed.
People of any country tend to believe what they see day/night in media, and to be honest with you India is no exception. As a matter of fact this statement holds true to India more so then any other country except may be for United States.
To put it simply Russia is playing this game to perfection, and even after selling the technology of Rd-93 to China, at the end they will make It look like the Chinese have copy/stole or are using there own indigenous WS-13 engine. :army:

Unfortunately that doesn't fly, as this is a internet forum and your veracity is a unknown quantity here I am afraid.
However there are some former members of the PAK airforce who post here. Private message them and let them know your source. If they say it is so then I shall take your word for it.

 

[Bull]

Stop making stupid accusations,. if you read WS-13 recent news (you can go find it by googling it),. that it is now in the testing phase, theirs a link on PDF in air-force section posted by a chinese member, as well in PakDef, the news is just 4-7 days old..

You didnt read my comments, did you?

I said the issue is whether "Pakistan can commission a plane witha russian engine" and you come out saying it stupid comment bcoz somebody said WS-13 is ready.

Now what the hell did you mean? Who said anything about Ws-13 here, we are speaking about RD-93.

Next time you come out with yor guns blazing, pls bother to read the posts.

Plus,. this whole engine issue was spread from Indian news' which most people don't even hold it credible news, we just going to have to wait on 23 of March.

Indian media never said anything about Ws-13. What they are saying is that " Russia has denied RD-93 to Pakistan".

Do you have any news with you to prove it otherwise?