Russia blocks RD-93 to Pakistan?

[blain2]

why hasnt the Pakistani Air Force made a big fuss about this?

I mean, the JF-17 was the Pakistani Air Force's trump card and now that Russia has screwed it up, aren't they worried?

I mean this plane was suppose to fly during the March 23rd Pakistan Day Parade, is that still on?

Why would Pakistan? If anyone, it would have to be Chinese and only in the case where they felt that transfer of aircraft or the JF-17 joint venture was in jeopardy. In all honesty, so far all I have seen is 1 or 2 reports and umpteen variations of these making rounds of the internet claiming JF-17 program has been grounded, the ones who would be directly affected in such case, CATIC/PAC have not said anything and neither have their respective govts....so for now I will assume that its business as usual. If the aircraft do not fly on 23rd March without a good explanation, then you can believe that some delay has been incurred.

 

[Regal]

I know there is a show of patriotism from both sides along with some wishful thinking I might add, but if you look at this “engine issue” in its entirety and follow the media reports from the inception of this project its clearly obvious whats at play here.

Its Russia who is using this engine deal towards its advantage by making Indians stay in there circle of influence. Giving India peace of mind that its doing her a favor by looking after her interests. Its doing that by letting Government of India as well as the media know that its blocking the engine. Yet at the same time doesn’t want to aggravate China either so its helping China produce an alternative engine. Russia is not only helping China create objection prone “Rd-93” but also helping it improve the same engine upon Chinese request for additional thrust so the “WS-13”. This is the reason you don’t see China or Pakistan making a fuss. :army:

To understand this issue its very important to look at Russia’s relations with India in the light of, Russia’s relations with China. As much as Russia wants to be the arms supplier/co-developer with India, It would never jeopardize its economic/military market in China. Its quiet obvious Russia is playing its cards right, when the dust settles it will be win-win situation for everybody.

 

[Adux]

There is a sea-difference between India-Russian relationship and China-Russia Relationship, Unless and until you understand that, there isnt going to be insight into this.

 

[Adux]

Why would Pakistan? If anyone, it would have to be Chinese and only in the case where they felt that transfer of aircraft or the JF-17 joint venture was in jeopardy. In all honesty, so far all I have seen is 1 or 2 reports and umpteen variations of these making rounds of the internet claiming JF-17 program has been grounded, the ones who would be directly affected in such case, CATIC/PAC have not said anything and neither have their respective govts....so for now I will assume that its business as usual. If the aircraft do not fly on 23rd March without a good explanation, then you can believe that some delay has been incurred.

I am sure the Aircraft will fly on March 23, maybe with the exsiting engines, Maybe as a Chinese Flyby or future pakistani fighter but still that doesnt Engine agrreement is a done deal, As you said there are enough trash in the internet talking about Russia agreeing as well as disagreeing.

 

[Awesome]

I think Russia is pretty much on board. It won't hurt it's business just to delay the JF-17 project for the sake of India. I mean if Russia could really get the project canceled then it perhaps might, since that could secure big business from India.

I think Russia is telling India that it's still pretty much on it's side and its going to help her in anyway it can as long as India remains faithful to her too. This is how it's going to play out.

At first a few planes would arrive in Pakistan this year under the garb of demonstrations and training the pilots using the RD-93 engine. Later on, China will claim to have completed the WS-13 and actually just be selling the RD-93 to us. Further later when it would be a WS-13 with a lot of Russian parts and eventually in 2-3 years we'd have a fully working WS-13. Why would be able to pull this off? Because obviously Russia's on board.

 

[Adux]

Numbers talk a different game, Geo-strategic Political Balance(Chechans for you), Even if India's is unfaitfull to Russia, it still can give far far more share than what pakistan offer, Especially in the civilian side.

There are assured Russian influence areas as well as areas where russians can duel with other nations to sell its products.

 

[Adux]

At first a few planes would arrive in Pakistan this year under the garb of demonstrations and training the pilots using the RD-93 engine. Later on, China will claim to have completed the WS-13 and actually just be selling the RD-93 to us. Further later when it would be a WS-13 with a lot of Russian parts and eventually in 2-3 years we'd have a fully working WS-13. Why would be able to pull this off? Because obviously Russia's on board.

This might happen, and mostly without russian knowledge

 

[Awesome]

Because Russians love Indians?

 

[Adux]

Because Russians love Indians?

No, If we do come to know, Pakistan cant replace us. more or less 50% of Russian civilian and miltary export income would suffer, India and China are the biggest consumers, India is the biggest one.

 

[Awesome]

Who said Pakistan is replacing India? They would simply employ the US policy. Sell to whoever wants to buy.

 

[Adux]

Who said Pakistan is replacing India? They would simply employ the US policy. Sell to whoever wants to buy.

Asim,

In case of India, if they sell to Pakistan, Honestly Indian-Russian relationship will take a new low, And India wont buy from Russia;Communist parties over here would loose their voice. India cant armtwist on China, cuz they buy on our par.But in case of Pakistan, we can,we will and we should.

PS: why havent you moved my locked thread to the trash can yet.

 

[Awesome]

C'mon India doesn't have the financial capability to turn down cheap Russian weapons. Plus India's buying from Americans and Israelis too. If India can two-time Russia, Russia can't two-time India?

China is not on par with India but significantly ahead. Selling to Pak could also mean breaking in with traditionally American Arab market. India cannot afford to lose Russia, Russia would still have others if India ditched them. Seriously if it sold to Pakistan India would cancel off its plans to acquire 200 Su-30MKIs? It's tied in with Russia for the development of its 5th gen fighter too now.

You are talking as if you have the upper hand in this relationship.

 

[Adux]

I suggest you look up who was the largest importer Arms in the world last year and the year before that,
We dont have the upper hand, but we do have leverage, and that leverage is more than enough for Pakistan. 200-Su are to be made in India.
When Did India two-time russia, India always used to buy arms from the west, and for that russian sells to china, Pakistan i am sorry to say doesnt figure in that equation. Current Indian-Russian military deals are worth 15 billion, and a further 9 billion for the nuclear civilian reactors they are buying, Future 5th generation and other's are differnt. And all those underground deals...The Money is impressive here. Pakistan's budget is around 5 billion, India is 19billion increasing by 30% very 2 years.

Russia doesnt need Pakistan to break into Arab Market, They are already there in full force. The American allies will buy only western; and Pakistan cant influence there.
This after India is buying from everyone,Russia wouldnt wanna loose it, and we wouldnt want to loose them,
Pakistan couldnt stop US from coming closer to India, But India can in context of Russia.Cold war leftovers i think

 

[Awesome]

There is no way the Chinese can provide us with the RD-93 engines under the garb of WS-13 without Russian knowledge. Russians can ask for proof to see how their engines are being used and why aren't there as many JF-17s in China but in Pakistan.

How should you know this is happening? If Pakistan's not signed the Eula as well and still its getting the planes already by this year... then you know somethings up .

 

[Adux]

There is no way the Chinese can provide us with the RD-93 engines under the garb of WS-13 without Russian knowledge. Russians can ask for proof to see how their engines are being used and why aren't there as many JF-17s in China but in Pakistan.

How should you know this is happening? If Pakistan's not signed the Eula as well and still its getting the planes already by this year... then you know somethings up .

I dont know about that Asim, F-7 in your inventory is the Russian Mig-21 revamped by the chinese, They are a capable lot, and they might do it again.