Russia against developing military ties with Pakistan

[aimarraul]

There are two reasons why Russia didn't sell the SU-33, firstly China ordered too few which was not worth it for Russian to restart the production lines and secondly, China enitially only orderd 7 (big red flag) then when Russia said no China bumped the order to 14, but that's still suspicious because China wanted 50 carrier fighters, Russia was afraid China would build their own SU-33 and call it something else or take the knowledge from the SU-33 and incorporate it into a Chinese aircraft, thus taking business away. And that prototype SU-33 is rediculously outdated, so it does China very little.




Not only did China break the contract but China's business practices was unethical.



The Chinese ordered a set number of Russian fighter, then they cancelled about half and started puting in their own avionics aka most likely reversed engineer Russian component. The contract stated that China can not install their own avionics, but they did, even worse Russia lost money because of it.

sorry to tell you some secret,we already produced 4 prototype of carrier-based j-11 based on that "outdated" prototype .

and you forgot to mention that most components we got are repainting crap,it's not the first time russia offer something different from the contract,and i believe india and lots of other customers also had the same experience

 

[ptldM3]

sorry to tell you some secret,we already produced 4 prototype of carrier-based j-11 based on that "outdated" prototype .

So now you are using the production lines to build unothorized aircraft, seems like another breach of contract.

and you forgot to mention that most components in that deal we got are repainting crap,it's not the first time russia offer something different from the contract,and i believe india and lots of other customers also had the same experience

Russia transfered China technology to build SU-27SK's, so what incorrect parts did China receive?

 

[aimarraul]

So now you are using the production lines to build unothorized aircraft, seems like another breach of contract.




Russia transfered China technology to build SU-27SK's, so what incorrect parts did China receive?

unaothorized aircraft? no.....it's just "outdated" prototype of SU-33.....i don't think it's russia's business.remember,we purchased it from ukraine

 

[Creder]

hey by the way i just remembered and this is to the pakistani members, if you go down to the Bhalwal side where there are fields for oranges, your sure to run into a group of russians there.

 

[IceCold]

I am not here to attack or belittle your country. If you can't come up with something better, you shouldn't throw whatever comes to your mind. You know better what the hell you have said. There's no argument possible. Low

It is us who needs to be saying this because everytime there is a news of Pakistan buying something or even planning to buy something, you Indians come up with the same old BS where is the money. Look around yourself hasnt Pakistan managed all along with all the military equipment that we needed, we got it, then why keep on raising the money issue, how is it relevant? but then again since you guys cant come up with anything else, you beat around the same bush. My suggestion is to get over it. We have enough to buy what we think is necessary to keep the adversary at bay.

 

[ptldM3]

unothorized aircraft? no.....it's just "outdated" prototype of SU-33.....

Yes but you said China build 4 of them, obviously they had to be build somewhere and the only place they can be build is the same factory where the SU-27SK/J-11 came from, meaning that is illegal, remember China can only build so many aircraft from that production line as specified in the contract.

i don't think it's russia's business.remenber,we purchased it from ukraine

Sukhoi is a Russian company, so Russia should care if other counties are making fake copies of their aircraft. Would China be happy if Pakistan, for instance, sold a J-10 to another country and that other country ended up reverse engineering it? That would be completely wrong.

 

[IceCold]

Why Indians are allowed on this forum?

This is a privilege that you guys take it for granted and often abuse where as you should be thanking it because none of it is given to any Pakistani member on any Indian forum, heck you guys dont even have the decency to address Pakistan in a respectful manner. "Terrorist Islamic republic of Pakistan" is how you guys address us on Indian forums.

 

[thebrownguy]

This is a privilege that you guys take it for granted and often abuse where as you should be thanking it because none of it is given to any Pakistani member on any Indian forum, heck you guys dont even have the decency to address Pakistan in a respectful manner. "Terrorist Islamic republic of Pakistan" is how you guys address us on Indian forums.

If you feel we represent the guys who posted this stuff on any Indian forum, then we are very sorry. Are you raising the question, as to why we are allowed here or dismissing it?

 

[IceCold]

If you feel we represent the guys who posted this stuff on any Indian forum, then we are very sorry. Are you raising the question, as to why we are allowed here or dismissing it?

I am not raising anything, i believe interaction can sometimes help change the mindset. My reply was particular to "we are soldiers" who raised why are Indians even allowed.

 

[Cityboy]

Yet another,, converted to online war of bashing each other. .its alwayz gud to see 1st page of the thread only. .rest all are endless fighting..btw thanks to pdf, ,i came to know many thngs regarding both india and pak. .we need much more interaction betwn india pakistan citizens . .coz we share many thngs.

 

[PakiPashtun]

People fight way too often man, stop derailing threads.

 

[faithfulguy]

This is a privilege that you guys take it for granted and often abuse where as you should be thanking it because none of it is given to any Pakistani member on any Indian forum, heck you guys dont even have the decency to address Pakistan in a respectful manner. "Terrorist Islamic republic of Pakistan" is how you guys address us on Indian forums.

Which famous Indian forum do you see the line

Terrorist Islamic republic of Pakistan"

 

[Haanzo]

^^^ is it bharat rakahak ???

 

[aimarraul]

Yes but you said China build 4 of them, obviously they had to be build somewhere and the only place they can be build is the same factory where the SU-27SK/J-11 came from, meaning that is illegal, remember China can only build so many aircraft from that production line as specified in the contract.




Sukhoi is a Russian company, so Russia should care if other counties are making fake copies of their aircraft. Would China be happy if Pakistan, for instance, sold a J-10 to another country and that other country ended up reverse engineering it? That would be completely wrong.

we didn't produce more than 220,we cancelled another half components because they are unqualified, most of those things are repainting second-hand products, our two countries already signed the Intellectual Property Security Agreement in 2008, russia stop offering engine for J-11,it's over .but if we reverse engineering the carrier-based technology from that phototype and use it on other jets(besides j-11),then it's not russia's business,Sukhoi is a Russian company,but technically ，russia don't own the technology of that phototype,USSR or ukraine own it.i only know china already produced 4 carrier-based aircraft ，but i am not sure if it's j-10， j-11 or L15，so we don't need to argue anymore.J-11 is just a transitional jet for PLA,there is no need to break the contract and produce more than 220

 

[topjumper]

Just enough to buy something what we think is necessary for our defence. So no need for Indians to worry about "the money".

Well, China and Pakistan are allies for geographical and political reasons, we don't really care whether Pakistan is rich or poor, (but of course the richer the merrier ). China already said in 2008 that it would provide unlimited financial and military aid to Pakistan in case of another Kashmir conflict. Pakistan is one of our trusted neighbors and we just can't afford to lose it if we don't want to be completely circled up by the US allies.

Oh... just to be clear though, I hope there won't be another war between Pakistan and India, neighbors fighting always leaves bad scars for years to come, it helps no one in the end.