Russia against developing military ties with Pakistan

[Jade]

Pakistan may not need to match India and that is what i am implying not by mere conjecture but by an example where Russia could have blocked Pakistan's acquisition of RD93.

Pakistan is a huge growing market as well and will not be ignored by any one who wants to earn money, especially if they can come up with a means to deal with Pakistan in a clever manner.
There are arrangements whereby a country can indirectly maintain a relationship through a third party, Russia has already done this when it comes to Pakistan.

France is a close partner of Pakistan and has supplied weapons to India as well...these things happen and there is only so much you can do to control your rivals procurement avenues...

If Pakistan issues a tender for a contract worth even a billion USD, i can see nearly all countries showing interest.
The global economic meltdown has made the playing field even more level now whereby the major players will find intelligent means to sell their product (directly or indirectly) despite pressure not to do so.

By not any measure I am alluding that Pakistan is a small country. In fact, it has with it around 2.5% of world population. Big enough to evince interest from major businesses operating around the world. However, size, influences, economics, interests and markets are all relative.

Why do you think Russia has made it explicit that it would not sell military wares to Pakistan. Just because it cannot afford to loose India. A good example is MMRCA deal: just because Pakistan operates F-16, Lockheed Martin is virtually out of race. Even the same yard stick could be applied to indirect sales. Unless, the indirect sales doesn’t in anyway threaten India’s interest, Russia could sell but what if the sales threaten India.

Moreover, how reliable are indirect sales? who are the parties? what about the after sales service? what about financing? and what is the guarantee the sales are as per requirement? are some of the pertinent questions that have to be answered

 

[Jade]

Re-read what I said! Try a bit harder this time and you might just understand what is being said..

PS: I don't need to check anything but u surely need to find suitable glasses and a dictionary in case you fail to understand and miss the point again!!!

Good Luck READING!!!

Sorry, I misread you

 

[Thebignag]

Indo USSR cooperation started, after the US 7fleet was sent to the Bay of Bengal, in favor of Pakistan. We have gained a lot over the years from the Russians. This relationship in not just security centric but is economic prudence.

India and Russia do not have any conflict between them and also faces terror threats from the same ideology and probability from the same geography.

Maintaining and investing in a three trillion dollar economy with a history of extremely friendly relationship would be more attractive than to, in another country with an economy around one sixth of India, if it comes to choice. Prime Minister Putin just stated the obvious.

 

[Thebignag]

what is so funny?? Pak is a threat to u.. when I said that I wasn't trying to be provocate the Indian fellows here... but I was replying to someone stating we are not! my take is that u can have all the stealths, and what not.. it still wdnt make us any less of a challenge for your Gov.. Pak will still stay a threat... if it weren't y dint you unleash the so called 'strategic strikes' after mumbai incident which I heard you guys were going to..

FACE IT: you dont have to balls and guts to do it. so have some stomach to understand that you cant do sh*t to Pak... cuz like I said ..
PAK IS A THREAT!!!

funny thing is Indian mates here think they are some super power.. and Pak some weakling .. when infact that's hardly the case.... I heard chadam bharam say if there is any more incident like Mumbai's well not stop... yeah we'll not stop barking but we will never bite.... cuz we simply can't !!(see the funny side now?!)

“Threat” and “nuisance value” are two separate issues. Perception might differ. Indian Government has it’s responsibilities to protect and safe guard it citizens. Power comes with Responsibilities. The Indian response to terror attacks it has been facing has been diverse and multifold. Mostly objectives are met through diplomatic actions. If need arises that objectives would be met through surgical strikes, I have no doubts that India would not hesitate to take such a step.

“having balls” as has been put across in your post, can be answered to as “ Bangladesh”

Should Indian HM’s statement be treated as threatening? I would like believe it is more of a declaration of possible action, in addition to other diplomatic and economic tools available to India that she would be willing to consider.

 

[Storm Force]

CYNIC

Plz decribe threat.

If you mean supply terrorists to blow up cities then yes.

If you mean Kargil type misadventure the yes.

BUT OTHER THAN THIS theres not much more.

I mean you could never invade india or stop indian economic dominance in south asia.

HENCE THE TERM nusiance rather than real threat.

 

[Cynic Waheed]

Sorry, I misread you

It orite .. no worries! Next time please dont jst post for the sake of posting!

Adios.

 

[Cynic Waheed]

CYNIC

Plz decribe threat.

If you mean supply terrorists to blow up cities then yes.

If you mean Kargil type misadventure the yes.

BUT OTHER THAN THIS theres not much more.

I mean you could never invade india or stop indian economic dominance in south asia.

HENCE THE TERM nusiance rather than real threat.

When did I say we were gona invade India? Please dont change the substance of what I meant...

PS: Don't forget if it weren't for Pak, the US and Nato forces in Afghanistan will die bitterly... call it nuisance or whatever but even if we arent an economic pawer as yet in S.Asia, we still hold all the cards to dominate the central Asian region which at the moment is the MOST pressing issue...

 

[Cynic Waheed]

“Threat” and “nuisance value” are two separate issues. Perception might differ. Indian Government has it’s responsibilities to protect and safe guard it citizens. Power comes with Responsibilities. The Indian response to terror attacks it has been facing has been diverse and multifold. Mostly objectives are met through diplomatic actions. If need arises that objectives would be met through surgical strikes, I have no doubts that India would not hesitate to take such a step.

“having balls” as has been put across in your post, can be answered to as “ Bangladesh”

Should Indian HM’s statement be treated as threatening? I would like believe it is more of a declaration of possible action, in addition to other diplomatic and economic tools available to India that she would be willing to consider.

ha ha ha ha ha !! Now that is funny!
And good luck surgical striking.. please make sure u check your aircraft engines before u send them on the mission... cuz ur aircrafts have a habit of crashing to ground...

 

[TechLahore]

All national alliances are not as shallow as that of USA and Pakistan. There is a concept of goodwill and credibility in such relationships. Thats why India pays a couple of billion over and above the planned cost and Russia does not feel insecure about growing Indo US ties..

Is that also why Russia allows Russian military technology to make its way to Pakistan via third countries?

 

[TechLahore]

Agree to most of your post. However, India has stayed out of so called blocks for last 60 years despite its pathetic economic state in 1st 4-5 decades of its life. In today's world you no longer have to chose between US and Russia. Actually US and Russia are collaborating on more stuff that a lot of other countries.. But lets see what future holds for us all

You make a very important point... the US and Russia are no longer the two ends of the spectrum. In many, many ways, Russia has accepted that it is no longer a superpower. You earlier made a point about Russia not being threatened by US/Indian cooperation... the principal reason lies in the fact that Russia no longer sees itself as a global projector of power. They are concerned, now, only with their immediate neighbourhood. Mess with Georgia and you will ruffle their feathers, or position ABMs right up close, and you might get a response. But short of that, they are no longer in a position to project influence viz issues further afield. They are having a hard time even protecting their interests in the old Soviet states (e.g. Soros/Ukraine, US bases in CARs, ABMs, etc.)

 

[karan.1970]

Is that also why Russia allows Russian military technology to make its way to Pakistan via third countries?

A few engines that could've been replaced by one of many other available alternatives does not amount to selling of strategic technology..

 

[TechLahore]

A few engines that could've been replaced by one of many other available alternatives does not amount to selling of strategic technology..

Tanks via Ukraine are another example...

But I think you've reinforced the point I made in my very first post in this thread. Russian technology is not a strategic requirement for us, and what we need, we conveniently get via third parties. Russia does not block these transactions despite some Indian pressure. So net-net, the point is, we get what we need.

 

[karan.1970]

You make a very important point... the US and Russia are no longer the two ends of the spectrum. In many, many ways, Russia has accepted that it is no longer a superpower. You earlier made a point about Russia not being threatened by US/Indian cooperation... the principal reason lies in the fact that Russia no longer sees itself as a global projector of power. They are concerned, now, only with their immediate neighbourhood. Mess with Georgia and you will ruffle their feathers, or position ABMs right up close, and you might get a response. But short of that, they are no longer in a position to project influence viz issues further afield. They are having a hard time even protecting their interests in the old Soviet states (e.g. Soros/Ukraine, US bases in CARs, ABMs, etc.)

In my view the earlier USSR was too bogged down in countering the US. Now that Russia is accepting to be yet another strong regional power and not competing with the US for Global dominance, I expect it to do significantly well in years to come..

 

[karan.1970]

Tanks via Ukraine are another example...

But I think you've reinforced the point I made in my very first post in this thread. Russian technology is not a strategic requirement for us, and what we need, we conveniently get via third parties. Russia does not block these transactions despite some Indian pressure. So net-net, the point is, we get what we need.

You are right.. The strategic projects are few and far in between. examples are Jxx between Pak/China or PAK-FA / Brahmos between Russia and India.. Thats where the alignments are visible. Rest of the stuff is anyway commoditized.. If one has the moolah, the alternatives exist in abundance..

 

[Trisonics]

So net-net, the point is, we get what we need.

I think it should be "we get what they want to give us".
Bringing the engine for jf17 into the discussion is just mere extrapolation, the fact is Pakistan cannot buy say a full fledged fighter or submarine from Russia. The statement under discussion just emphasizes this fact.

Having said that Russia is within its own right to make a sale from which it can make money, but for reasons more than one, it will not make a sale to Pakistan that will alarm India.