Revisiting 1962 war with China: When India's prestige was in a shambles

[Hellfire2006]

India chose to make China an enemy by hosting Dalai lama and his "exile government"

That's a very myopic view. What's your opinion on china's road construction in aksai chin which wasn't discovered until 1957 ! China did a clear violation of panscheel spirit here!

 

[etylo]

What has galwan valley clash achieved for china ? Did it translate into a strategic victory? Or did it destroy India's capability to deploy it's army on the LAC ? China has achieved literally nothing from the clash except the creation of a hot border in the west of it's territory for which it will have to deploy a much larger proportion of it's forces thereby weakening it's posture in the east against the american allies and extending the PLA on multiple fronts. This is more of a strategic headache in the long term. I don't see any meaningful outcome of the border crisis which has even slightly benefited the chinese state. In fact, india has benefitted more from the crisis as it has got an excuse to develop border infrastructure faster than ever before which was restrained earlier in order to respect the border agreements between the two sides. China now risks an escalation on its western border in case of a war with taiwan, japan and US in the east. You have successfully forced india to join anti china alliances. I see this as a strategic defeat and a military stalemate.
I look forward to logical PoVs being put ahead by the Chinese members here to counter my argument.

Yeah, china is scared of your mighty indian army, now china has to face possible two front wars, so its better for china to kneel down and meet you indians demands and give up chinese territories to you, thats what you fools dream on eh. There will be Galwan Ii and 1962 war repeat least you refrain from foolish adventures.

That's a very myopic view. What's your opinion on china's road construction in aksai chin which wasn't discovered until 1957 ! China did a clear violation of panscheel spirit here!

Askai chin is chinese territory as thr name implies and you indians have no say what china does there, period.

 

[Hellfire2006]

Yeah, china is scared of your mighty indian army, now china has to face possible two front wars, so its better for china to kneel down and meet you indians demands and give up chinese territories to you, thats what you fools dream on eh. There will be Galwan Ii and 1962 war repeat least you refrain from foolish adventures.

i demanded a logical argument here. Blimey, you don't understand a word of what I wrote
How old are you ?

 

[etylo]

To be honest the only reason why india and china are not on good terms is the border dispute and china's constant support to Pakistan, it has built infrastructure in Pakistan occuoied kashmur without any regard for indian concerns despite the fact that it has pledged to take a neutral stance on the issue of kashmir. China's ego is the biggest problem here. It's a big nation with a small heart

Who do you think you indians are think you should dictate the relationship between china and pakistan ? Why dont you indians get out of chinese south tibet territory and relation will improve. Chinese heart is not to fullfill whatever you indian demands. You indians are most opportunistic people and stabbed china behind in 1960s and 2020, and your nation has no heart if you complain china has a small heart.

i demanded a logical argument here. Blimey, you don't understand a word of what I wrote
How old are you ?

its you talking nonsense saying that china has made strategic mistake to india and china better to meet you indian demand to fix the problem, just dream on, besides, i dont see any mistake on chinese side in response to your countrys aggression, dont think you delusional people can fool chinese in your flawed argument.

 

[Sam6536]

Yeah, china is scared of your mighty indian army, now china has to face possible two front wars, so its better for china to kneel down and meet you indians demands and give up chinese territories to you, thats what you fools dream on eh. There will be Galwan Ii and 1962 war repeat least you refrain from foolish adventures.


Askai chin is chinese territory as thr name implies and you indians have no say what china does there, period.

Humor me how will a scenario of 1962 repeat?
The civilian and military leadership of India of today is not whatever disorganized mess there was in 1962. We had inferior weapons, no weapons manufacturing capability and not much weapon acquisitions from foreign nations neither did we have that kind of money or economy to buy stuff then.
Plus in 1962 we had a lot of undermanned posts and tactical blunders led to destruction of some strategic points that's not the case now.
The West looks to India as an bulwark against China, in reality neither India nor the west trust each other completely but they'll take whatever dig they can at China. Not implying that US will put boots on the ground or help India directly, there are other ways like Intel gathering and weapon sales on a higher scale.
And look at India's current arsenal it's ranked number 4 globally for a reason.
Among the handful of nations to have hypersonic missiles, nuclear weapons, thermobaric weapons, ASATs, nuclear submarines, relations with both east and the west. Almost every major power has diplomatic relations with us and agrees to sell us stuff.

 

[Hellfire2006]

Who do you think you indians are think you should dictate the relationship between china and pakistan ?

We don't want to dictate anything. But you're shielding terrorists like masood azhar in UN and building infrastructure in Pak occupied kashmur which is disputed territory. You're essentially signalling that you recognize Pakistan's claim over Kashmir.

Why dont you indians get out of chinese south tibet territory and relation will improve. Chinese heart is not to fullfill whatever you indian demands

There's no historical basis for your claim over so called ' south tibet' I have lived in Arunachal pradesh till 2021. The people there hate china alot and have great sympathy for Tibetan people and refugees. That's why swathes of them join the indian army every year. The first time ever that the boundary in this sector was defined when henry McMahon drew the McMahon line which was very carefully delineated with consent from Tibetan officials, china did not share a border with india back then, since china eventually captured tibet it also inherited it's policies and tibet's border agreements. It makes perfect sense to keep McMahon line as the official border in the east and believe it or not even chinese leadership knows it. The only reason why I believe they claim Arunachal is the significance of tawang and to counter India's claim over aksai chin. Indeed chinese military's current deployment pattern suggests that their priority in the western theatre lies in ladakh/aksai chin area. India's claims over aksai chin have more credibility and backed by history. Let's not forget that it was general zorawar singh who integrated this territory into india after defeating Qing forces. And what are the hans even doing on a plateau far away from their native homelands of the great yellow floodplain ?

. You indians are most opportunistic people and stabbed china behind in 1960s and 2020, and your nation has no heart if you complain china has a small heart.

1)China covertly built a road in aksai chin which wasn't discovered until 1957 in violation of the panscheel spirit. This was one of the major triggers for 62
2) china built up 3 divisions in aksai chin/eastern ladakh area violating previous agreements. India only had one division in ladakh during this period. It was not until the galwan incident that india started building up it's forces.
3) china attacked unarmed and outnumbered indian troops at galwan valley and killed 20 soldiers including the CO who came for negotiations. And this too happened in an area where there was no dispute at all. And suddenly out of nowhere they made a blizzare statement that all of galwan is chinese thus violating their own claim line !

its you talking nonsense saying that china has made strategic mistake to india

Hasn't it ? You'll have to always keep a large proportion of your forces in WTC to counter india, thus weakening your posture in the east where your main priorities lie

and china better to meet you indian demand to fix the problem

I never said that china should do that. There should be a negotiated settlement between both sides, but china's ego is so large that it refuses to negotiate which only worsens the situation.

, just dream on, besides, i dont see any mistake on chinese side in response to your countrys aggression, dont think you delusional people can fool chinese in your flawed argument.

Ofcourse you can't openly admit that china made a strategic mistake. Fundamentals of Han Nationalism won't allow you to do so. Whatever china does is correct, even if it means purging its own people

 

[SIPRA]

Askai chin is chinese territory as thr name implies and you indians have no say what china does there, period.

There is not an iota of doubt that Aksai Chin is Chinese territory. Only Shyok River Valley needs to be added.

 

[beijingwalker]

It's funny for a colonized country claiming the foreign lands that were colonized by their masters, we Chinese never recognize a line that was drawn by a British. What a shame for India with your national borders were penciled by your foreign masters.

 

[SIPRA]

This thread was in slumber, but suddenly awakened today.

It's funny for a colonized country claiming the foreign lands that were colonized by their masters, we Chinese never recognize a line that was drawn by a British. What a shame for India with your national borders were penciled by your foreign masters.

Pandit Nehru was a great land grabber.

 

[beijingwalker]

Pandit Nehru was a great land grabber.

He got what he deserved

 

[SIPRA]

He got what he deserved

Yes, and he asked for it. His characteristic arrogance got better of him.

 

[etylo]

We don't want to dictate anything. But you're shielding terrorists like masood azhar in UN and building infrastructure in Pak occupied kashmur which is disputed territory. You're essentially signalling that you recognize Pakistan's claim over Kashmir.

There's no historical basis for your claim over so called ' south tibet' I have lived in Arunachal pradesh till 2021. The people there hate china alot and have great sympathy for Tibetan people and refugees. That's why swathes of them join the indian army every year. The first time ever that the boundary in this sector was defined when henry McMahon drew the McMahon line which was very carefully delineated with consent from Tibetan officials, china did not share a border with india back then, since china eventually captured tibet it also inherited it's policies and tibet's border agreements. It makes perfect sense to keep McMahon line as the official border in the east and believe it or not even chinese leadership knows it. The only reason why I believe they claim Arunachal is the significance of tawang and to counter India's claim over aksai chin. Indeed chinese military's current deployment pattern suggests that their priority in the western theatre lies in ladakh/aksai chin area. India's claims over aksai chin have more credibility and backed by history. Let's not forget that it was general zorawar singh who integrated this territory into india after defeating Qing forces. And what are the hans even doing on a plateau far away from their native homelands of the great yellow floodplain ?

1)China covertly built a road in aksai chin which wasn't discovered until 1957 in violation of the panscheel spirit. This was one of the major triggers for 62
2) china built up 3 divisions in aksai chin/eastern ladakh area violating previous agreements. India only had one division in ladakh during this period. It was not until the galwan incident that india started building up it's forces.
3) china attacked unarmed and outnumbered indian troops at galwan valley and killed 20 soldiers including the CO who came for negotiations. And this too happened in an area where there was no dispute at all. And suddenly out of nowhere they made a blizzare statement that all of galwan is chinese thus violating their own claim line !

Hasn't it ? You'll have to always keep a large proportion of your forces in WTC to counter india, thus weakening your posture in the east where your main priorities lie

I never said that china should do that. There should be a negotiated settlement between both sides, but china's ego is so large that it refuses to negotiate which only worsens the situation.

Ofcourse you can't openly admit that china made a strategic mistake. Fundamentals of Han Nationalism won't allow you to do so. Whatever china does is correct, even if it means purging its own people

You can make all the BS lies here.

Humor me how will a scenario of 1962 repeat?
The civilian and military leadership of India of today is not whatever disorganized mess there was in 1962. We had inferior weapons, no weapons manufacturing capability and not much weapon acquisitions from foreign nations neither did we have that kind of money or economy to buy stuff then.
Plus in 1962 we had a lot of undermanned posts and tactical blunders led to destruction of some strategic points that's not the case now.
The West looks to India as an bulwark against China, in reality neither India nor the west trust each other completely but they'll take whatever dig they can at China. Not implying that US will put boots on the ground or help India directly, there are other ways like Intel gathering and weapon sales on a higher scale.
And look at India's current arsenal it's ranked number 4 globally for a reason.
Among the handful of nations to have hypersonic missiles, nuclear weapons, thermobaric weapons, ASATs, nuclear submarines, relations with both east and the west. Almost every major power has diplomatic relations with us and agrees to sell us stuff.

You had both American and Soviet support including arms back then in 1962.

 

[applesauce]

Humor me how will a scenario of 1962 repeat?
The civilian and military leadership of India of today is not whatever disorganized mess there was in 1962. We had inferior weapons, no weapons manufacturing capability and not much weapon acquisitions from foreign nations neither did we have that kind of money or economy to buy stuff then.
Plus in 1962 we had a lot of undermanned posts and tactical blunders led to destruction of some strategic points that's not the case now.
The West looks to India as an bulwark against China, in reality neither India nor the west trust each other completely but they'll take whatever dig they can at China. Not implying that US will put boots on the ground or help India directly, there are other ways like Intel gathering and weapon sales on a higher scale.
And look at India's current arsenal it's ranked number 4 globally for a reason.
Among the handful of nations to have hypersonic missiles, nuclear weapons, thermobaric weapons, ASATs, nuclear submarines, relations with both east and the west. Almost every major power has diplomatic relations with us and agrees to sell us stuff.

?

but you still have inferior weapons, you still barely have any weapons manufacturing capability and you still don't have the money/economy in comparison to china.

if there were gaps in equipment, manufacturing in 62', they were small and since then they have only grown much larger.
i mean, in 62, china was as poorer than india per capita and only very slight larger in total GDP due to larger population. today, china is over 5x the size of india economically speaking, with generational advantages in weapons tech, and i dont think we need to go deeper into manufacturing capabilities here.

india itself admits its got a whole 15 days of ammunition, and a wide array of items it simply cannot replenish in any war lasting more than like a month, because those equipment is all imported.

also what in service hypersonic weapons does india even have? brahmos II is in development.

 

[lchsod1975]

中国人怕印度牛粪！印度可以靠牛粪征服世界

 

[Hellfire2006]

You can make all the BS lies here.


You had both American and Soviet support including arms back then in 1962.

Did any one of them step forward to help us ? Mere words won't make a difference, and The USSR had a good relationship with Mao's china till late 60s.