Religion can’t be sole foundation: Mooshahary

[Zabaniyah]

You are wrong, I am not Anti Muslim. I am not saying Islam is evil, I am just saying that Islam need some time to get matured. Xianism was also in same state before renaissance . Bhakti Andolan (Worship movement) rectified Hinduism. The reforms come from internal and external forces...

There is nothing wrong with Islam as a faith. We can't characterize a religion.

It's like saying:
"I wonder what kind of movies does Islam like?"
"Islam is such a nice guy."
"I wonder if Christianity likes Coke or Pepsi."

Does it make sense? No. Islam is a religion. Not a person.

It'd be more appropriate to say that Muslims as a people need to reform. There is no doubt of that.

Just Imagine for a Muslims (Fundamentalist Muslim) in BD , Israel is enemy (Coz they are Jew and other reason) but the Pakistani Who raped (2lakh-4lakh, BD govt says 2 Lakh, Indipendent Western historian claim 4 Lakhs) BD women are not enemy (Coz they are Muslims).

We Indian who fought with you against tyranny , Who laid there life to save your daughter,sisters are your enemy (in just 30 years). You forget our sacrifice in just 30-35 years?? Height of ingratitude. Why coz we are hindus???

India simply wanted to weaken Pakistan by smashing it into two. Period.

And as for us, it is not ingratitude. We simply do not want to be dominated by India.

"An unannounced Bangladesh-model government is functioning in the country as decisions are taken somewhere else and parliament is worthless."

YOUSUF RAZA GILANI
former Pakistan prime minister
indirectly referring to the Supreme Court's growing influence in the country.

That's the fine line which you lot never were able to differentiate or even comprehend.

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

You are wrong, I am not Anti Muslim. I am not saying Islam is evil, I am just saying that Islam need some time to get matured. Xianism was also in same state before renaissance . Bhakti Andolan (Worship movement) rectified Hinduism. The reforms come from internal and external forces...

Just Imagine for a Muslims (Fundamentalist Muslim) in BD , Israel is enemy (Coz they are Jew and other reason) but the Pakistani Who raped (2lakh-4lakh, BD govt says 2 Lakh, Indipendent Western historian claim 4 Lakhs) BD women are not enemy (Coz they are Muslims).

We Indian who fought with you against tyranny , Who laid there life to save your daughter,sisters are your enemy (in just 30 years). You forget our sacrifice in just 30-35 years?? Height of ingratitude. Why coz we are hindus???

For your info most of the raped woman were hindus and majority of the victim those who died they were also hindus.

2ndly no one praise the killing or raping or those who conducted that.

3rd from India those who fought they have been given their honor so far.

4th world does not remain in static position. In Islam it is said for father's crime children can not be blamed. Same way ordinary Pakistani can not be hated the thing that you are assuming.

5th similarly ordinary Bangladeshis do not hate Indians but Indian policy makers and their policy has made ordinary citizen hostile to India.

Lastly regarding maturity it is better for the hindus not to talk about it. Hindus are still a backward c**t which many consider it is no longer a religion but some backward tradition. All the reform movement that you talked about hinduism is nothing but to just an effort to give hinduism a shape but still it is a backward religion which divide human being based on caste.

Hinduism is gonna fall apart sooner or later as a religion. 350 million dalits are leading it.

India: Hindu and Dalit students clash over 'beef festival'

Now hindu and dalit turned into separate thing.

Same also goes with Christianity. In western world christianity has completely fallen apart. No body follow christianity apart from just believing Jesus christ is lord and believing him will lead one to heaven. They just occasionally goes to church to attend different ceremony and thats it.

For muslim, they were matured even when all of India and Europe were backward. Do you even know many of the newtons law were discovered by the muslim scientist couple of century ago??? First degree granting university, full flagged medical, research lab, surgery etc. few to mention has been started in muslim land.

Just google how cambridge university was established and from where the inspiration came from.

Lastly all the reform in europe came from non christians not from christian themselves. Even christians were ready to kill the scientists for propagating earth rotate around sun not the other way around as it goes against bible dogma.

 

[Black Widow]

There is nothing wrong with Islam as a faith. We can't characterize a religion.

It's like saying:
"I wonder what kind of movies does Islam like?"
"Islam is such a nice guy."
"I wonder if Christianity likes Coke or Pepsi."

Does it make sense? No. Islam is a religion. Not a person.

It'd be more appropriate to say that Muslims as a people need to reform. There is no doubt of that.



India simply wanted to weaken Pakistan by smashing it into two. Period.

And as for us, it is not ingratitude. We simply do not want to be dominated by India.

YOUSUF RAZA GILANI
former Pakistan prime minister
indirectly referring to the Supreme Court's growing influence in the country.

That's the fine line which you lot never were able to differentiate or even comprehend.

Religion is nothing without followers, Its followers who define the religion. If followers are bad religion is bad. If it is said some religion is bad , means majority followers of the religion are bad. After all Religion is man made things. The Books are written by men (Be it Koran , Bible or Vedas).

The thing human didn't understand called that devine (Either god or satan). If we can charactarize the follower (majority) , we can characterise the religion.


Your second point is totally wrong, Indians are not cowards. We fought many war before '71 did we ever attacked East Pakistan??? No, we never attacked east Pakistan. It was cruelity of West Pakistan and pressure of increasing refugees which compel us to get into war. East Pakistan was always a weak point, we never attacked Bengali before 1971.


Your third point is also invalid. India never wanted to dominate BD. We always wanted good relation with BD. If we wanted to dominate BD we could have left our battalian there in '71. BD was weak in 71 if India wanted to dominate, we could have captured your land in 71. By blamming Indian you are showing your ingratittude towards us...

Behan Hassan Nissar, that Saigol guy, Najam Sethi & that Nazir guy have all been exposed many times because they take 'half-truths', 'exaggerations' & 'out-right lies' & twist them in ways to present something that isn't there !

Do we have a soft-spot for Muslims ! Yes...! Has that hurt us in the past ? Indeed it has ! Has that helped us in the past ? Of course it has !

Are we Arab wannabes going about greeting each other in traditional Arab greetings, wearing the kifyeh or doing some of the other traditional Arab stuff - No ! Do we have a soft-spot for them ? Yes ! Do we criticize them ? Yes we do..especially when it comes to their Royals & their refusal to give nationality to outsiders.

Do we know who Ghauri, Ghazni or others were ? We do indeed...some of them were ancestors of our own - the Pukhtoons ! Do we worship them ? No...! Do we admonish them for the wrongs they did ? Yes but not as much as we should have because self-critique isn't a big thing in Pakistan or South Asia in general ! Do we admire them for some of the things they did ? Yes ! Case in point : Mahmud Ghazni was fair & benevolent to his freed slave 'Ayaz' whom he even made some sort of a Governer after he left these lands hence the couplet by Iqbal : Eik hi saaaf mein khareii ho gai Mehmood o Ayaz, na koi bandaa rahaa na koi bandaa nawaz - In the same row do both Mahmood & Ayaz stand, none superior to the other' - This by the way also alludes to the act of prayer where all are equal before God.

Do we admire Sher Shah Suri - We do ! Who told you we didn't ? We know his contributions to this land...he was perhaps the only one in a long-line of Invaders who actually did something for the people - His greatest legacy is the GT (or the Grand Trunk) Road that runs through Pakistan & millions travel on it every week.
Do we respect Tipu Sultan - We resoundingly do ! He is remembered as one of the few Royals of that time who actually resisted the British isntead towing their line ! There are many Pakistanis who carry that name 'Tipu' in homage to the Sher-e-Mysore; my own maternal uncle being one of them.

Lastly I dispute in the strongest words possible that Pakistanins killed & raped Bangladeshi women or that our boys butchered 3 million Bengalis in '71 & please don't bother showing the 'so-called' evidence...I've seen, I've seen the claims, the counter-claims, the evidence to the contrary & to be fair to my mind's eye to the question whether 'Pakistanis did all of that' remains 'inconclusive' ! However if its true then I apologize from the bottom of my heart !

Hope all Pakistani becomes like you. You are a good person. But still I don't agree that Mr Nissar, Hoodbhoy and Mr sethi are liars. though I agree that Mr Nissar sometime become more pessimist and negative, But the thing he say is correct. Mt Hoodbhoy is balanced.

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

Son your ansestors were doing the same before some Invader kept sword on his throat.. And yes Pagans worship nature. Gods are made by Human (a Human creature) Nature is natural..

At least we pagans are not ingrattitude like some others...

You old fellow you are still with this old debunked sword theory. Try something else. In Bengal and in most of the South Asia Islam extends through the sufis. It is not the other way around.

The below two link will provide detail how Islamization of Bengal occurred.

Islam in Bangladesh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier, 1204

 

[Black Widow]

For your info most of the raped woman were hindus and majority of the victim those who died they were also hindus.

2ndly no one praise the killing or raping or those who conducted that.

3rd from India those who fought they have been given their honor so far.

4th world does not remain in static position. In Islam it is said for father's crime children can not be blamed. Same way ordinary Pakistani can not be hated the thing that you are assuming.

5th similarly ordinary Bangladeshis do not hate Indians but Indian policy makers and their policy has made ordinary citizen hostile to India.

Lastly regarding maturity it is better for the hindus not to talk about it. Hindus are still a backward c**t which many consider it is no longer a religion but some backward tradition. All the reform movement that you talked about hinduism is nothing but to just an effort to give hinduism a shape but still it is a backward religion which divide human being based on caste.

Hinduism is gonna fall apart sooner or later as a religion. 350 million dalits are leading it.

India: Hindu and Dalit students clash over 'beef festival'

Now hindu and dalit turned into separate thing.

Same also goes with Christianity. In western world christianity has completely fallen apart. No body follow christianity apart from just believing Jesus christ is lord and believing him will lead one to heaven. They just occasionally goes to church to attend different ceremony and thats it.

For muslim, they were matured even when all of India and Europe were backward. Do you even know many of the newtons law were discovered by the muslim scientist couple of century ago??? First degree granting university, full flagged medical, research lab, surgery etc. few to mention has been started in muslim land.

Just google how cambridge university was established and from where the inspiration came from.

Lastly all the reform in europe came from non christians not from christian themselves. Even christians were ready to kill the scientists for propagating earth rotate around sun not the other way around as it goes against bible dogma.

EIther you are misinformed or you are from Jamati propagand brigade.. Just read this document.

http://www.kean.edu/~bgsg/Conferenc...ons/Anis Ahmed_Paper_OperationSearchlight.pdf

"Susan Brownmiller in her book , Against Our Will: Men Women and Rape writes," 200,000, 300,000 or possibly 400,000 women were raped. Eighty percent of the raped women were Muslim, "

Good to see that no one is praising them, but bad to see that no one condemning that, Every one is trying to ignore those rapists.

We are thankful that you have given us honor, Infact we Indian are honoured to fight along-with such brave bengalies. We indian always respected Bengali people..

I agree that Son should not be blamed for father crimes, but at the same time ppl should understand who is frnd and who was enemy. And those war crime are not 100 year old , many rape victims are still alive (Hiding there identity). Many who lost there family are still alive.

Thanks you hate our policy makers, infact we too hate our policy makers...

Yes we had castism, which we are overcoming. Soon in next 50 years it will diminish.

Hinduism is 10,000 year old religion (or may be older), many religion came and went, we are still alive. We have seen many Islam like religion last 10,000 years many are dead and many are struggling. Your religion is just 1000-1500 year old, talk to me when it become 10,000 year old... Who knows by it will survive that long or not ...



on rest all point , I agree with you...

 

[Black Widow]

You old fellow you are still with this old debunked sword theory. Try something else. In Bengal and in most of the South Asia Islam extends through the sufis. It is not the other way around.

The below two link will provide detail how Islamization of Bengal occurred.

Islam in Bangladesh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier, 1204

And you are still living in La-La land.. We all know how Islam is spread... Persia/Pakistan/Bangladesh/KSA is example of that...


Don't play good cop, bad cop with me.

 

[Jobless Jack]

deleted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

EIther you are misinformed or you are from Jamati propagand brigade.. Just read this document.

http://www.kean.edu/~bgsg/Conferenc...ons/Anis Ahmed_Paper_OperationSearchlight.pdf

"Susan Brownmiller in her book , Against Our Will: Men Women and Rape writes," 200,000, 300,000 or possibly 400,000 women were raped. Eighty percent of the raped women were Muslim, "

Good to see that no one is praising them, but bad to see that no one condemning that, Every one is trying to ignore those rapists.

We are thankful that you have given us honor, Infact we Indian are honoured to fight along-with such brave bengalies. We indian always respected Bengali people..

I agree that Son should not be blamed for father crimes, but at the same time ppl should understand who is frnd and who was enemy. And those war crime are not 100 year old , many rape victims are still alive (Hiding there identity). Many who lost there family are still alive.

Thanks you hate our policy makers, infact we too hate our policy makers...

Yes we had castism, which we are overcoming. Soon in next 50 years it will diminish.

Hinduism is 10,000 year old religion (or may be older), many religion came and went, we are still alive. We have seen many Islam like religion last 10,000 years many are dead and many are struggling. Your religion is just 1000-1500 year old, talk to me when it become 10,000 year old... Who knows by it will survive that long or not ...



on rest all point , I agree with you...

Old fellow just some random link do not prove what was the real reality. As I said no one praise the rape and killing and but majority of the victim were hindus that can be said seeing the reaction of the hindus as 80-90% of the refugee were hindus. If they were not persecuted then bulk of them fled to India when whole nation were trying to fight for independence??? If we go by the 10 million refugee claim than 8-9 million of them were hindus which is almost all the hindu population of Bangladesh. Those who were in Bangladesh they knew it how badly hindus were treated.

Second thing why you are so fond of still creating divide between ordinary Bangladeshis and Pakistanis those who had nothing to do with war??? Does the germany girls still hate russians because they were raped and 1.7 million were murdered after 2nd world war??? Does it also goes with China and Japan??? or Russia and USA???

What is your motive.

You know a jack as$ about Islam. Islam has started from the beginning of universe not just 10000 years. Even christians used to think that their religion is untouchable but since 1970s it completely fall down. Hinduism is also going along the same phase other wise why 50% of the south asian people already left it and dalits are converting to christianity and islam in millions???

 

[Jobless Jack]

Old fellow just some random link do not prove what was the real reality. As I said no one praise the rape and killing and but majority of the victim were hindus that can be said seeing the reaction of the hindus as 80-90% of the refugee were hindus. If they were not persecuted then bulk of them fled to India when whole nation were trying to fight for independence??? If we go by the 10 million refugee claim than 8-9 million of them were hindus which is almost all the hindu population of Bangladesh. Those who were in Bangladesh they knew it how badly hindus were treated.

Second thing why you are so fond of still creating divide between ordinary Bangladeshis and Pakistanis those who had nothing to do with war??? Does the germany girls still hate russians because they were raped and 1.7 million were murdered after 2nd world war??? Does it also goes with China and Japan??? or Russia and USA???

What is your motive.

You know a jack as$ about Islam. Islam has started from the beginning of universe not just 10000 years. Even christians used to think that their religion is untouchable but since 1970s it completely fall down. Hinduism is also going along the same phase other wise why 50% of the south asian people already left it and dalits are converting to christianity and islam in millions???

someone educate me . wtf is a dalit ?

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

someone educate me . wtf is a dalit ?

Untouchable hindus.... In hindusism human being are divided into 4 category and dalit are the lowest category. It is said that they have done something bad in their earlier life so they are dalit in this human life. They are untouchable by the upper class and not allowed to go to or talk with upper class people or touch them not even making a phone call. They are lowest of the low in the hindu society.

The following link and video can give you a better idea. Their number is 350 million in India. Now they are leaving hinduism in masses.

Wrong number call rings social boycott of 50 dalit families - Times Of India

Start from 1:40

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

That not only happen in some backward society or remote corner of India but in big cities and it is done by well educated people also ...

See how dalit girls are treated even in classroom

Two Dalit girl students stripped in M.P. - Worldnews.com

See what happened even in Indian government office...

Dalit officer's car 'cleansed' with cow dung on retirement | NDTV.com

 

[Black Widow]

Old fellow just some random link do not prove what was the real reality. As I said no one praise the rape and killing and but majority of the victim were hindus that can be said seeing the reaction of the hindus as 80-90% of the refugee were hindus. If they were not persecuted then bulk of them fled to India when whole nation were trying to fight for independence??? If we go by the 10 million refugee claim than 8-9 million of them were hindus which is almost all the hindu population of Bangladesh. Those who were in Bangladesh they knew it how badly hindus were treated.

Second thing why you are so fond of still creating divide between ordinary Bangladeshis and Pakistanis those who had nothing to do with war??? Does the germany girls still hate russians because they were raped and 1.7 million were murdered after 2nd world war??? Does it also goes with China and Japan??? or Russia and USA???

So who is correct? BD govt? western Historian?? or Sharmila Bose?? 80-90% were hindus coz they were killed.

I am not creating devide, I am just saying that don't twist the facts, Don't forget the past. Shino-Jap war is 70 year old , BD atrocities are 35 yr old. Many war childs are 35 year old now.

What is your motive.

You know a jack as$ about Islam. Islam has started from the beginning of universe not just 10000 years. Even christians used to think that their religion is untouchable but since 1970s it completely fall down. Hinduism is also going along the same phase other wise why 50% of the south asian people already left it and dalits are converting to christianity and islam in millions???

I know everything about Islam. I can't tell that coz that will frame be under blasphemy law. Islam is just 1000-1500 year old religion. your belief can't turn the truth.

Spread of Islam in India is through over breeding, Not mass conversion. So called dalits are in better condition than Muslims in India, so there is no way there will be mass conversion.

Many Muslims are leaving Islam and converting to Xians (Older religion don't have concept of conversion). Some Xians are targetting to convert all Muslims to Xianism.

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

So who is correct? BD govt? western Historian?? or Sharmila Bose?? 80-90% were hindus coz they were killed.

I am not creating devide, I am just saying that don't twist the facts, Don't forget the past. Shino-Jap war is 70 year old , BD atrocities are 35 yr old. Many war childs are 35 year old now.



I know everything about Islam. I can't tell that coz that will frame be under blasphemy law. Islam is just 1000-1500 year old religion. your belief can't turn the truth.

Spread of Islam in India is through over breeding, Not mass conversion. So called dalits are in better condition than Muslims in India, so there is no way there will be mass conversion.

Many Muslims are leaving Islam and converting to Xians (Older religion don't have concept of conversion). Some Xians are targetting to convert all Muslims to Xianism.

See my above two post and you will understand why mass conversion is happening among dalits. If sword would be the only way of conversion then whole India would have been converted. All the hindu king and queen used to dance on the instruction of the muslim kings. Islam was so popular that it even gave birth to a cult called shikhism.

Most of the conversion was done by the sufis thats why they are so popular even among the hindus. Hinduism is only some upper caste and male centric religion which lost it's ground in modern world. By the how do you teach the young children all the incest story and ram lila as it is described in Gita???

Regarding 71 ... so your analogy is hindus were killed only not raped??? Come to reality my friend. Hindus were mass murdered and gang raped back then which prompted their mass migration. Even in todays war crime trial bulk of the witness are hindus.

So after 70 year like Japan and China we should forget everything according to you??? 1971 is now 41 year old history not 35 years.

Regarding christians converting all Islam is a pretty old story. Try something new. Christianity is itself a dead religion in west. So it is trying to find some root among poor and uneducated people of africa and latin america and among the dalits in India.

 

[Black Widow]

Untouchable hindus.... In hindusism human being are divided into 4 category and dalit are the lowest category. It is said that they have done something bad in their earlier life so they are dalit in this human life. They are untouchable by the upper class and not allowed to go to or talk with upper class people or touch them not even making a phone call. They are lowest of the low in the hindu society.

The following link and video can give you a better idea. Their number is 350 million in India. Now they are leaving hinduism in masses.

Stop spreading propaganda. The division was based on profession. Interchangeability of proffession was allowed. Son of farmer was allowed to become brahmina (teacher). The devision was like this
1. Brahmina : (Teacher)
2. Kshatriya : (Soldier/ruler/warrior)
3. Vaishya : (Businesman)
4. Sudra : (Common worker)

The great king chandragupta was not Ksatriya from birth. He was Vaishya or Shudra. There were many Sudra who became Brahmina. Till Gupta Dynasty there was no issue at all. Later on it became a problem. Things became worst during Islamic Rule.

After Islam was defeated (Muslim rule confined to some places), Hindusim went through reforms (But unfortunately Brits came). Even under britis rule Hinduism went through reforms.


Current scenario": Our constitution provided many benefit for So called Dalits. The govt has made rule against discrimination. The law are very strict.


And to make it clear, there is no mass conversion from hIUNU to Muslims....

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

And you are still living in La-La land.. We all know how Islam is spread... Persia/Pakistan/Bangladesh/KSA is example of that...


Don't play good cop, bad cop with me.

Again I told you you know a jack a$$ old fellow... Just go through the following link as it is from University of California link not some random link like yours. This sword theory was propagated back in 19th century by the british specially to create divide and rule theory which fall down long ago. Not only that even far land like indonesia and east africa where no muslim soldier went there Islam spreads through missionaries and traders.

The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier, 1204

Regarding KSA???

Go read history. That is one of the few example of blood less conquest.

This goes to as far as to Egypt. Read some history then come here with argument...

Muslim conquest of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See how non Catholic Christian secs sided with the muslim to defeat Byzantine empire.