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Rebound To Russia: Amid Rafale Impasse, IAF To Buy 40 More Sukhois

Two pilot improves kill probability than with one pilot!! We have more man power so it's not the problem . And am not sure what we might actually get with this last batch. Am worried it could be in the same like BMP2 purchase. With same configuration.

And I was expecting New variant of Su35 in line with MKI. As we already looking to upgrade our MKI fleet with many shared features of Su35 why not buy Su35 instead MKI? Never the less additional MKI released from pressure on our depletion. Stop gap purchase. Better Russians gives our S400 asap
These birds will only start being produced in 2018/19, by then the Nasik plant will have switched over the Super and MLU production/retrofitting and thus any MKIs produced will be of this production standard and will not be the same as the blocks today. Even today the current production standard is block IV and MKis produced today differ significantly to those earlier blocks (most of which have been retrofitted to current spec).

However, the stop gap benefits are rather minimal IMO as the first brids won't arrive before 2020/1 and by then the MiG-21/27s will be all but gone.
 
@Srinivas
Sir, the maritime strike role for stand off weapons atm is being handled by Squadron No 6 based out of Jamnagar AFS.. Its made up of Jaguars and carries Harpoons
View attachment 292798
Quarter Century of the Jaguar in India - Bharat Rakshak:Indian Air Force

In terms of equipment the IAF has roughly 12 air defence squadrons, 17 strike/ground attack squadrons, one maritime strike squadron, three attack helicopter units, nine transport squadrons, one tanker squadron and one AWACS squadron
..:: India Strategic ::. IAF: Aviation Capibility of the Indian Armed Forces


if we are planning for such a squadron role replacement it has to be DPSA not air Superiority/Air defence squadrons/Strike platforms.

The ability of a DPSA (Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft) coupled with Tactical Air Strike Aircraft envisions a ground attack role too.. So the jets has to have a AShM plus A2G role..

MKI can do it surely owing to its ability to carry loads of different ordnance but primarily it has to be Jags replaced by Rafales (twin engine replacement program).

Brahmos i doubt will see AshM variant as of now in a pure maritime role squadron.. Owing to size and only MKI carrying ability.. In 3-5 years we will see a smaller Brahmos with an ability to be carried by Mig 29s, Mirages, Rafales etc and 3 in Su30 MKI belly.. That may be then be given as secondary roles in Ground attack/Strike squadrons..


Sukhois can carry 3 next gen Brahmos missiles plus they can travel more distance. Sukhois are well suited for deep strike, nuke and anti ship roles.

Rafales can be used for SEAD missions. But they have limited range and pay load. A combination of Rafales and sukhois works well for IAF.
 
A Su35 with a Su30mki engine and the French/ Israeli systems which mki has, plus it should be dual seater, well that's tough.

Its easier to continue with the present mki and upgrade their Avionics in near future.



350.
Around 250 Mig21s and 100 Mig27s.

India had 250 mig21 in 2007
As of now
India only has 8 Sqds of Mig21 and 5 Sqds of Mig27 left in service
That's 250-260/aircraft at most
Out of these 2 Mig21 Sqds and 1 Mig27 Sqd is up for retirement
 
Rafales can be used for SEAD missions. But they have limited range and pay load. A combination of Rafales and sukhois works well for IAF.
The Rafale has a higher weapons payload than the MKI.
 
India had 250 mig21 in 2007
As of now
India only has 8 Sqds of Mig21 and 5 Sqds of Mig27 left in service
That's 250-260/aircraft at most
Out of these 2 Mig21 Sqds and 1 Mig27 Sqd is up for retirement

https://d1fmezig7cekam.cloudfront.net/VPP/Global/Flight/Airline Business/AB home/Edit/WorldAirForces2015.pdf

The flight global 2015 says 247 Mig21s were active when it was compiled ( means around 2013 end). And 87 Mig27s.
If we account for crashes in last 3 years then it will be at least 320 Migs.
 
Sukhois can carry 3 next gen Brahmos missiles plus they can travel more distance. Sukhois are well suited for deep strike, nuke and anti ship roles.
Except the MKIs don't have EMP hardening (required for Nuclear strike missions), their airframes aren't certified for low-level strike missions and their radars don't have terrain mapping modes required for such low level misions. The Rafale will be the IAF's defacto strike bird- including for nuclear missions.
 
These birds will only start being produced in 2018/19, by then the Nasik plant will have switched over the Super and MLU production/retrofitting and thus any MKIs produced will be of this production standard and will not be the same as the blocks today. Even today the current production standard is block IV and MKis produced today differ significantly to those earlier blocks (most of which have been retrofitted to current spec).

However, the stop gap benefits are rather minimal IMO as the first brids won't arrive before 2020/1 and by then the MiG-21/27s will be all but gone.
We could manage with few last upgraded batches of Mig 21. Our tests are good enough and Many really surprised at what Tejas did at Bahrain. So I guess our IAF strengthening our air fleets with rafale, Tejas and additional MKI. By 2022 nearly 80 new MKI will be added along with 36 Rafale and 60 some Tejas MK1P.... Very impressive combo if could achieve this milestone with any hiccups like in the past :)

Any info on Su35S? I know it's not gonna happen :( But am quite sure that we seriously looked into it for the past 3 years wondering what went wrong. May be the 100 mil price tag after upgrades and shifting supply line to India or upgrading nasik production line?


@PARIKRAMA @MilSpec
 
has the availability rate increased for the Su-30MKI?

Govt takes note of Su-30MKI's poor 'serviceability' | Business Standard News

According to ministry of defence (MoD) figures accessed by Business Standard, the serviceability rate of the Su-30MKI was just 48 per cent till last year. The remaining fighters were undergoing repair or maintenance.

Today, availability has risen slightly to 55 per cent, far lower than advanced western air forces, which generate 80-85 per cent availability rates. In terms of aircraft numbers, only 106 of the 193 Su-30MKIs that the IAF flies today would be available in war. The remaining 87 fighters, each worth Rs 358 crore at current prices, would remain on the ground.

"That's more than Rs 30,000 crore just sitting there in hangars," notes a senior MoD official.
 
We could manage with few last upgraded batches of Mig 21. Our tests are good enough and Many really surprised at what Tejas did at Bahrain. So I guess our IAF strengthening our air fleets with rafale, Tejas and additional MKI. By 2022 nearly 80 new MKI will be added along with 36 Rafale and 60 some Tejas MK1P.... Very impressive combo if could achieve this milestone with any hiccups like in the past :)

Any info on Su35S? I know it's not gonna happen :( But am quite sure that we seriously looked into it for the past 3 years wondering what went wrong. May be the 100 mil price tag after upgrades and shifting supply line to India or upgrading nasik production line?


@PARIKRAMA @MilSpec

IAF wasn't impressed with it, when they went for exercises in Russia ( but they were impressed with the PMU2 and later S400). Its not like every thing which is awesome in the world is needed by us. We should just make sure we fulfill our needs, and not be over ambitious.
 
@PARIKRAMA Dude our strategic forces command were supposed to buy 40+ mkis for delivering nukes... does this has anything to do with them ??
 
Except the MKIs don't have EMP hardening (required for Nuclear strike missions), their airframes aren't certified for low-level strike missions and their radars don't have terrain mapping modes required for such low level misions. The Rafale will be the IAF's defacto strike bird- including for nuclear missions.
Sukhois are air dominance fighters which can also be used as bomb trucks once the enemy air defenses are suppressed. It is Rafale's job to do terrain hugging and destroy enemy air defenses.

Regarding EMP protection, these days it is a must and should for fighter jets, India combines Israeli electronics with Russian hardware.
 
IAF wasn't impressed with it, when they went for exercises in Russia ( but they were impressed with the PMU2 and later S400). Its not like every thing which is awesome in the world is needed by us. We should just make sure we fulfill our needs, and not be over ambitious.

Well Beggars can't be a choosers!!! Those times are gone and done. Today we can choose the better stuff. Modern warfare is not about numbers anymore but advanced weapon technology . India an global power aspiring nation can't keep whining about huge price tag. Did you know before we use to choose lowest bidder but not any more. Our new government changed this policy. Only the better weapon as per our needs gets big fat orders.

You think about it! HOW CAN YOU TAKE ON AN EXPANSIONIST? No way we could match with numbers but with brilliant strategy and with war winning weapons we can change the results. That's what we been doing for the last 2 years.

Rules have changed brother

@PARIKRAMA Dude our strategic forces command were supposed to buy 40+ mkis for delivering nukes... does this has anything to do with them ??

I think 40 some Sukhoi upgraded for this purpose. That could carry Bramos A missiles. Strengthened airframe and minor modification to accommodate larger weapon loads under its belly... ?

@PARIKRAMA Dude our strategic forces command were supposed to buy 40+ mkis for delivering nukes... does this has anything to do with them ??


A master piece!!!! About our SFC and 42 mini airforce ...

Its intent to strike with devastating force early on in a conflict.


Why the BrahMos armed Sukhoi is bad news for India’s enemies
20 April 2015 RAKESH KRISHNAN SIMHA
By successfully modifying the Su-30MKI to carry the supersonic BrahMos missile, India has signalled its intent to strike with devastating force early on in a conflict.
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BRAHMOS, SU-30MKI, INDIAN AIR FORCE
su-30mki_468.jpg

Su-30 and BrahMos are powerful weapons. Source: wikipedia.org

India has signalled its intent to strike enemy targets with devastating force early on in a conflict.

In September 2010 India’s newly constituted tri-services Strategic Forces Command (SFC) submitted a proposal to the Defence Ministry for setting up two dedicated squadrons of aircraft comprising 40 Su-30MKI air dominance fighters. The task of this “mini air force” is to deliver nuclear weapons.

The picture became clearer in October 2012 when the Cabinet Committee on Security green lighted a programme to carry out structural and software modifications on 42 Su-30MKIs and acquire 216 air-launched BrahMos missiles. Until then, the BrahMos – the product of an India-Russia joint venture – was for exclusive use by the Navy.

In March 2015 the SFC received the first of these 42 Sukhois equipped with the air launched version of the supersonic BrahMos. This is the first time that the SFC, which at present depends on the Indian Air Force (IAF) for delivering nuclear weapons under its command, is acquiring its own aerial assets.


India proud to be armed with the Su-30MKI fighter – Indian Minister


Currently, India’s nuclear delivery system is based on land-based ballistic missiles such as the Agni and Prithvi plus the IAF’s nuclear-capable Mirage 2000, Su-30 MKI and Jaguar fighter-bombers. The final element of the nuclear triad, submarine-launched missiles, is still being tested.

Individually, the Su-30 and BrahMos are powerful weapons. But when the world’s most capable fourth generation fighter is armed with a uniquely destructive cruise missile, together they are a dramatic force multiplier.

The BrahMos’ 3600 km per hour speed – literally faster than a bullet – means it hits the target with a huge amount of kinetic energy. In tests, the BrahMos has often cut warships in half and reduced ground targets to smithereens. The Sukhoi’s blistering speed will add extra launch momentum to the missile, plus the aircraft’s ability to penetrate hardened air defences means there is a greater chance for the pilot to deliver the missile on to its designated targets.

Likely targets

Considering that India’s primary enemy is Pakistan and that country’s chief backer is China, against which India has fought two conflicts – losing in 1962 and winning in 1967– these two countries are the obvious targets.

Against Pakistan, the targets are obvious. A two-squadron attack using most of the SFC’s air assets can within minutes utterly cripple the country’s command and control centres; nuclear power plants, including the Kahuta ‘Death Star’ where the majority of the “Islamic” bombs are manufactured; the Sargodha Central Ammunition Depot west of Lahore where these warheads are stored; ballistic missile bases in Gujranwala, Okara, Multan, Jhang and Dera Nawab Shah; Pakistani Army Corp headquarters in Rawalpindi; the Karachi Port, Pakistani’s only major harbour and its Naval HQ; and ordinance factories that manufacture tanks and fighter aircraft.

Related:
brahmos165.png


Hypersonic missiles are the future for India and Russia – new BrahMos Chief

Su-30MKI vs. Rafale: A virtual battle

Dissecting a dogfight: Sukhoi vs USAF at Red Flag 2008

Russia’s Su-30 fighters upgraded to carry supersonic cruise missiles

The supersonic BrahMos armed with a conventional warhead can theoretically penetrate hardened command, control and communication centres. However, there is no guarantee these targets will be 100 per cent destroyed unless the BrahMos is nuclear tipped. A pre-emptive nuclear strike will therefore ensure that Pakistan’s offensive capability is effectively neutralised and it is never again a threat to India.

Against China, the Sukhoi-BrahMos one-two punch seems counter-intuitive as Chinese targets are located deep inland or on the coast. However, the Su-30MKI has a maximum range of 3000 km (extendable to 8000 km with in-flight refuelling). Now add the BrahMos’s 300 km reach and India can hit targets 3300 km inside China.

Why the Sukhoi-BrahMos option?

The Su-30MKI is an obvious choice. The SFC does not want untested fighters but the ones which can be relied upon to deliver nuclear-tipped missiles. The aircraft has a titanium airframe strong enough to fly a high-speed terrain following profile. The batch of 42 Sukhois will also have hardened electronic circuitry to shield them from the electromagnetic pulse of a nuclear blast.

Having a dedicated aircraft for the nuclear attack role offers India’s war planners strategic flexibility and increases the odds of success. Because ballistic missiles are used only as a weapon of last resort, they cannot really be deployed at will. Once released, they cannot be recalled and if shot down are not easily replaced. Fighter aircraft, on the other hand, can perform repeated sorties and be directed to bomb targets as they move. For instance, if Pakistan moves it warheads out of Sargodha depot, which is presumably under constant watch by Indian satellites, the Sukhois can be vectored against a column of Pakistani trucks transporting their nuclear cargo.

The SFC’s mini air force of 42 Sukhois can also launch their missiles against Pakistani targets from within Indian airspace or while flying over international waters, thereby complicating the enemy’s defences. It is a lot easier for India to destroy Pakistani war fighting capability because not only is Pakistan relatively smaller but it has also concentrated its defences in one province, Punjab.


India will focus on Su-30MKI’s modernisation, arming jet with BrahMos


Further developments

Because heavy modifications were necessary for integrating such a heavy missile onto the Su-30MKI, initially it seemed to make little sense to deploy a single missile. Aviation Week reports that initially even Sukhoi was reluctant to go along. That prompted HAL to go solo, but Aviation Week says Sukhoi came on board in 2011. The Russian side provided HAL with technical consultancy especially for the modifications to the fuselage in order to accommodate the 9-metre-long missile.

“Work is also underway on a modified lighter and smaller-diameter version of the BrahMos for deployment on the Indian navy's MiG-29K and, potentially, the Dassault Rafale,” says Aviation Week.

And signalling the country’s immunity from western sanctions, DRDO scientists say the 300 km cap on the missile’s range will be removed. The next generation BrahMos is likely to be a longer range weapon. And with the planned increased in speed, the missile will have considerably enhanced kinetic energy despite its smaller size optimised for relatively smaller aircraft such as the MiG-29.

That’s really bad news if you are in the Sukhoi-BrahMos crosshairs.


Why the BrahMos armed Sukhoi is bad news for India’s enemies | Russia & India Report
 
has the availability rate increased for the Su-30MKI?

Govt takes note of Su-30MKI's poor 'serviceability' | Business Standard News

According to ministry of defence (MoD) figures accessed by Business Standard, the serviceability rate of the Su-30MKI was just 48 per cent till last year. The remaining fighters were undergoing repair or maintenance.

Today, availability has risen slightly to 55 per cent, far lower than advanced western air forces, which generate 80-85 per cent availability rates. In terms of aircraft numbers, only 106 of the 193 Su-30MKIs that the IAF flies today would be available in war. The remaining 87 fighters, each worth Rs 358 crore at current prices, would remain on the ground.

"That's more than Rs 30,000 crore just sitting there in hangars," notes a senior MoD official.
The Present Serviceability Is Around 65 % It Will Go Up to 75 % With Fresh Deal With Russia For Spares
India, Russia to sign pact on spares for Su 30 fleet, availability could go up to 75% - The Economic Times
 

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