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Ready to face sanctions over gas project:Pakistan

you are welcome.

but this looks more like 'akhand bharat'. @Armstrong :azn:

p.s (zyxw if you don't know what akhand bharat means- it means a united india including pak, , Bangladesh, burma and of course the whole of Kashmir from aksai chin to ajk and Gilgit Baltistan :devil: .) many people still believe that india's ultimate goal is to become akhand bharat.

akhand means without parts or in other words united.

bharat is hindi name of india.

Thanks I love how you know exactly which part to explain:)
 
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US government itself is facing the "sequester" where they still haven't decided upon a congressional budget.

Me, @Armstrong and @Ayush will depose you and take over. :devil: Then Armstrong can go about constructing a firm narrative while me and Ayush enjoy chapli kebabs.

Your official title will be " Honorary Chai Wala to the Parliament". Lol
 
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US government itself is facing the "sequester" where they still haven't decided upon a congressional budget.



Your official title will be " Honorary Chai Wala to the Parliament". Lol

Don't like titles and don't like tea (unless it be earl grey- do your parliamentarians drink earl grey?) so no I'm just going to feast upon the sajji and the chapali. :partay:
 
Yes but the economic problems aren't just governance related. Better governance will not be a panacea for Pakistan. The issue is exacerbated by the violence and the active insurgency in so many areas..sanctions at this time will deal a heavy blow. You should have waited 4-5 years, brought stability to your economy and flushed out the extremists- after that you would have had room for maneuvering.

I disagree I think that better Governance is indeed the panacea for Pakistan for even the two concerns that pointed out explicitly so are not only intrinsically but almost exclusively linked to them. To understand that better let us divide violence & the insurgency into 3 broad categories :

(a) the TTP led insurgency

(b) the Baluch Separatist militancy

(c) the Target Killings (Political or Sectarian)

Points (b) & (c) are solely due to an abysmal state of governance for right now you've got a few things that are catalyzing it in the present despite either of these issues existing for most of Pakistan's history :

(i) next to no development in impoverished areas of Baluchistan & Rural Punjab.

(ii) a severe trust deficit between the common man & the State Apparatus due to a consistent record of the bureaucracy & the security apparatus in being atrociously bad.

(iii) an absolutely shameful law & order situation throughout the country due to the chronic politicization of the Police, the bureaucracy & even the judiciary.

So take care of the Governance aspect of things & the rest will fall in line ! If the Civil Servant under you knows that the Minister sitting above is going have me suspended all the delayed development works due to corruption, nepotism & plain lethargy would end. If the Police SP knows that if I don't stop all these elements in my area of responsibility, despite knowing where & who they are, as every SP knows, then the MP is going to get my lynched before the Magistrate Court ! If the MPs themselves stop gobbling up billions of $$$s even small but focused & sincere efforts in alleviating some of the concerns of the common man is going to pay enormous dividends !

We're one of the largest givers of charity in the world for christsake...imagine where even a little amount of trust can take the current tax-to-GDP ratio, the buying of Government Bonds or just plain Government sponsored philanthropic work would take us. And that would come through good governance & good governance alone. Take Punjab for example - Things could be exponentially better than they are & yet we're not facing half the sh*t that the rest of the country is & why ? Because the Provincial Govt. might be a bunch of thieves (not crooks) who'd invest in the most idiotic of projects but unlike the Federal Govt. it doesn't gobble up every last dime of tax payer's money but spends quite a bit of it & more often than not gets the job done even if it could have been done better - But thats much more than we can say about the Federal Govt. right now.

And so that leaves us with point (a) - The TTP led insurgency has to be looked at through two different angles :

(i) as part of the greater security situation in the region & the yes we do have a narrative on that & the TTP !

And (ii) as part of that issue of abysmal governance again - The Army has done her job in evicting them from Swat, from most of the Tribal Areas, KPK & the rest but the Civilian Executive doesn't seem to back that up with development work in those regions or even purely taking up the operational workings of the State Machinery therein & letting the Army move out ! You'd be surprised to know the amount of development work the Army has been doing in both the Tribal Areas & even Baluchistan whereas this should have been the responsibility of the Govt. instead of the Army & they despite repeated callings from every quarter from the Army to come in & take over seem to be least bothered.

As things stand there is very little scope for absorbing any shocks in the economy atm. Besides you have to take into consideration that 2014 is indeed the date to look to here, the US does not plan to leave a heavy presence (in terms of gear such as tanks etc) in Afghanistan- that toned down presence will not require the GLOC as much as the US forces require it today. It'll all boil down to the result of US's risk-benefit analysis- and Pakistan might not come out on top in that.

Indeed but I gather the thinking right now is - Our economy is chronically energy starved & unless we can feed the demand there won't be much of an economy left to sanction ! In the meantime try to skirt the sanctions by both trying to reach an understanding of sorts behind the doors & by avoiding any sanctionable activity like, say, capital investment in Iran or whatever other particulars there be.
 
Yara, you said it. We are exceptionally stupid. We have a habit of doing things that are inherently detrimental to our health.

Having said that, I think we have NO option but to go for it.

Either we're exceptionally confident about getting through with this or we're exceptionally stupid; I'd favor the latter ! :blink:

@Hyperion - Yours thoughts, Milord ! :undecided:
 
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Is there any thought given to Turkmenitsan-Afghanistan-Pakistan Pipeline ?

US led EU sanctions will break the back of Pakistan's economy. Not to forget US provided funds for repairing a dam, many other projects. IMF and WB is influenced by US led EU very much.
 
Yara, you said it. We are exceptionally stupid. We have a habit of doing things that are inherently detrimental to our health.

Having said that, I think we have NO option but to go for it.

But what will be the steps required to deal with the consequences? Does the TAPI pipeline without the "I" not fulfill the same requirements and that too without any attached sanctions?
 
KRAIT, yara, in a couple of months you'll be here, so will I. Nothing is going to happen. There will be no sanctions. Trust me. I guarantee you that they'll offer NSG clearance to Pakistan instead of sanctions. It's simple maths, they have everything to loose, and we have got nothing else to loose.

Is there any thought given to Turkmenitsan-Afghanistan-Pakistan Pipeline ?

US led EU sanctions will break the back of Pakistan's economy. Not to forget US provided funds for repairing a dam, many other projects. IMF and WB is influenced by US led EU very much.
 
But what will be the steps required to deal with the consequences? Does the TAPI pipeline without the "I" not fulfill the same requirements and that too without any attached sanctions?

Afghanistan mein touuuu patrol kareiii gaaaa ? :blink:

Plus I was watching a talk show the other day & one of the analysts had mentioned that the gas fields that Tajikistan had chosen for the TAPI are having ownership issues between the Tajiks & some Russian firm (Gazprom I think) ! And then theres the time-frame required to build it.
 
Yara, you say TAPI without an I? I say what a load of crap!

TAP = Turkmenistan -> Assholeistan -> Pakistan..

Think about it from a strategic pov, why would we put Afghanistan as a variable in our energy security equation??? So that they have our balls in their hands for eternity????

Come on, you are smarter than that.


But what will be the steps required to deal with the consequences? Does the TAPI pipeline without the "I" not fulfill the same requirements and that too without any attached sanctions?
 
@Hyperion Buddy, I have been saying that US is making field for Sanctions. pipeline, to Baluchistan HR issue. I think China's support to Pakistan is somehow keeping Pakistan to hold its ground. Pakistan right now is playing field of all major powers. And US don't have to sanction, it can make small cuts at many place. US is quite good in causing economic and strategic bleeding.
 
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Yara, you say TAPI without an I? I say what a load of crap!

TAP = Turkmenistan -> Assholeistan -> Pakistan..

Think about it from a strategic pov, why would we put Afghanistan as a variable in our energy security equation??? So that they have our balls in their hands for eternity????

Come on, you are smarter than that.

The Afghans can't really play hardball here can they? I mean they strike at your interests and you disallow them any access to the Arabian sea. Shouldn't you be capitalizing on that one very important point? No matter how anti-Pakistan the government might be in Afghanistan (that is if there is a government there in the coming decade) they're still landlocked- unless their jihadis can drag tankers to the Caspian on their backs they're not really in a position to tighten any screws.

Or is it the existing security scenario in Afghanistan that simply renders any such option futile?
 
Yeah, I get what you are saying, however, respectfully disagree with your analysis on the eventualities. Yara, two decades of strategic bleeding, did we break psychologically? They know it very well that we are not going to cave in. It's going to be a zero sum game. Let's roll the dice.

@Hyperion Buddy, I have been saying that US is making field for Sanctions. pipeline, to Baluchistan HR issue. I think China's support to Pakistan is somehow keeping Pakistan to hold its ground. Pakistan right now is playing field of all major powers. And US don't have to sanction, it can make small cuts at many place. US is quite good in causing economic and strategic bleeding.
 
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Yara, again you are thinking from an outsiders POV.

Post 2014, we have NO intention of letting any centralized Afghan government succeed that is friendly to ANYONE but us, yes, we can do it, NO ONE ELSE CAN.

We can control ALL of Pushtoon dominated areas one way or the other, however, will NOT be able to control the Northern parts which have always fallen under the influence of Northern Alliance (Turkmens, Uzbeks, Tajiks).

Now reevaluate all the scenarios according to what I said above and draw whatever conclusions that may pop up in your head.

The Afghans can't really play hardball here can they? I mean they strike at your interests and you disallow them any access to the Arabian sea. Shouldn't you be capitalizing on that one very important point? No matter how anti-Pakistan the government might be in Afghanistan (that is if there is a government there in the coming decade) they're still landlocked- unless their jihadis can drag tankers to the Caspian on their backs they're not really in a position to tighten any screws.

Or is it the existing security scenario in Afghanistan that simply renders any such option futile?
 
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