Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[Guli Danda]

Okay do it
You cut aid, we cut WoT.
You cut aid, we cut his neck.
You cut aid, we cut further purchase of Olive class frigates.
You cut aid, we cut friendship.
You wanna fight, we wanna use nukes.


Now its upto you.
Interesting drama coming ahead.

Your posts implicates that you want aid from USA or else you ll start crying.
Why are you so willing to get more aids?

 

[The HBS Guy]

Interesting manner of framing the issue, since it is not Pakistan that has intelligence agents, who obtained visa's on fraudulent identities, running around the US shooting down American citizens in broad daylight in the streets, and then refusing to allow the legal system to function and determine the status of the accused.

It is an indication of the distorted world we live in, that the 'guilty/offending party' can take umbrage at the victim's attempts to seek justice for a crime.

This whole matter began on a wrong footing. Pakistan arrested a person claiming diplomatic immunity when according to Vienna Convention, it could not have.

 

[DV RULES]

Diplomatic immunity is the issue. Two criminals, robbers, stick up artists are the ones who put upon Mr. Davis, not vice versa.

Crime as a way of life is a sad way to make a living for your family in Pakistan. The vast majority of Pakistanis are honest, hardworking, and don't go around with illegal loaded guns sticking up honest Pakistani gentlemen, then moments later an American with diplomatic immunity.

Lahore's crime rate increased over 15% from 2009 to 2010. The atmosphere in Lahore is saddened by a combination of rising lawlessness and increasing acts of suicide bombers. I have great pity for the people of Lahore who are faced with such an atmosphere daily.

Just stop saying two robbers without any evidence, terrorist who killed innocents has to face court & punishment.

It was a terror act.
Why US government so interesting to support a terrorist?


What about crime rate then i am referring you site to check;

United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people

India: 0.0344083 per 1,000 people
(I didn't find Pakistan there)

Murders (per capita) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster


United states: 5.62 per 100,000
Pakistan : 3.60 per 100,000

Current Worldwide Homicide/Murder Rates

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This whole matter began on a wrong footing. Pakistan arrested a person claiming diplomatic immunity when according to Vienna Convention, it could not have.

Actually the problem is that RD's diplomatic immunity is in question, given that he was not issued a diplomatic visa (which has now been admitted by the US embassy) and his actual job title at the consulate/embassy was unclear.

Not to mention that the US initially indicated that Raymond Davis was not even his name, which would indicate that he obtained a visa on a fraudulent identity and was possibly abetted in that endeavor by the US Government.

Pakistan's arrest of the individual was therefore correct - it is the US response that has been arrogant and demeaning.

 

[Developereo]

If justice were to take its own course, Davis would never have been arrested in the first place.

You want to play justice-justice? How about starting with upholding your international commitments first?

Vienna convention comes to mind.

You have illegally arrested a person claiming diplomatic immunity when you couldn't as per your international obligations and now you are talking about justice. Ironical, isn't it?

He was not carrying diplomatic papers, was driving a car with illegal (let alone non-diplomatic) plates and brandished a weapon at law enforcement. It was perfectly legal to arrest him at the time.

Even if it is later established that he has immmunity, said immunity can be waived by the US so a proper investigation can determine his guilt or innocence.

 

[JonAsad]

It doesn't work that way. Diplomatic immunity is proposed by the sender state to the host state and once the host state accepts the proposal, diplomatic immunity is granted.

I agree here, right procedure.

All this happens before the person lands in the host country.

No- this is where you are wrong, this happens when the diplomat with diplomatic passport arrives in the host state-- he is a diplomat alright-- but by default he does not have diplomatic immunity-- On the request of sender country the foreign office grants immunity to the diplomat. The host country is liable to grant diplomatic immunity if requested.

Here is where the difference lies-- Mr Davis has no diplomatic immunity-- otherwise it was a clear cut case of a diplomat with immunity set free under agreement with Geneva convention.
The whole fuss, drama of bribing, cutting of aid threat, defense deals clout, sanctions is the way of US to free him illegally. Other wise whats the point of all that?

Even a individual with little common sense can understand if some one tries to bribe or give threats to get some thing which is supposed to be right-- there is some thing wrong in it.

Courts have no jurisdiction on this and it is true for all countries around the world, not just Pakistan.

If the case of immunity is complicated, or is not established, courts have all the say in it.

 

[Thomas]

I don't think they robbed anyone, the so called Dr Mudassar is nowhere to be found and have not once appeared in front of TV

Why should he with the lynch mob atmosphere? It would only make him a target himself.

Something I have been wondering is why doesn't the families of those killed produce the permits showing the 2 had legal weapons? Or for that matter why have no journalists produced them? and if they had no valid gun permits doesn't it add more weight to them being robbers?

 

[AstanoshKhan]

Fahim’s wife commits suicide, saying ‘I Prefer Death over Injustice’

Submitted by HQ on February 7, 2011

FAISALABAD – The widow of Mohammad Fahim shot dead by US national Raymond Davis in Lahore committed suicide after consuming poisonous pills on Sunday.

However, doctors refused to confirm her death, saying she was alive but in critical condition at ICU. But the relatives of Fahim’s widow, Shumaila Kanwal, told the media that she had expired. They said after the murder of Fahim, Shumaila came to her parents’ house at 189 RB Rasoolpur where she took poisonous pills. She was rushed to Allied Hospital. Doctors tried to save her life but she died. The family members alleged that Shumaila was kept at general ward for five hours and later when media flashed the news of her suicide attempt, the hospital authorities shifted her to the emergency ward where she died. Moments before her death when Shumaila regained her senses at hospital, she talked to media and burst into tears. She said her husband was innocent and she wanted justice. She said she attempted suicide because she believed that her husband’s killer would be freed without trial.

Agencies add: Shumaila said in a statement recorded by the doctor: “I do not expect any justice from this government. That is why I want to kill myself.”

Shumaila also spoke to reporters after arriving at the hospital, saying “I want blood for blood.” “The way my husband was shot, his killer should be shot in the same fashion,” she said. The shootings by Raymond Davis have stoked anti-American sentiment in Pakistan, feelings that could be further inflamed by Shumaila’s death.

Monitoring Desk adds: Shumaila breathed her last on late Sunday night, reported private TV channels.

 

[[Pakistani]-evilX]

since the very first day i believed that its not that simple as it looks, my personal idea was they were ISI operatives following davis, he found out and shot them down, took the pictures for identification.......

After watching hameed gul sahab's interview, i just have this thing inside, that they might be ISI operatives and tried to work with davis, or davis was going to recruit them but failed....this is what washington post was trying to say i guess?

 

[[Pakistani]-evilX]

Terminal X on facebook posted a picture of an unidentified relative , last to see the widow

 

[AstanoshKhan]

PPP Govt. set to release the CIA Terrorist

Submitted by HQ on February 7, 2011 – 3:23 am


Certain unconfirmed reports are suggesting that the Interior Minister Rehman Malik has dispatched a private team of unidentified personnel to arrange a secret release of the American terrorist Raymond Allen Davis who was caught last week after killing two Pakistani young men in Lahore. The team will secure the release of the terrorist and hand him over to the American Consulate in Lahore. Another source requesting complete anonymity was quoted as saying that he will be boarded on a chartered aircraft at Lahore Airport and transported over to the US.

The PPP traitors are once again planning on selling the dignity of Pakistan against Dollars and Political favors. Moreover, they are going to announce a fake reason for releasing him by blaming it all on the Pakistan Army to defame it. They are going to claim that the US had threatened to block the military aid, and therefore the Pakistan Army pressurized the Federal Govt. to release the American, this news however will be concocted and fabricated, in order to direct public anger at the Pakistan Army instead of the traitor Government of PPP.

If this news in fact turns out to be true, Rehman Malik and all American agents serving in different ministries in the Pakistan Government should remember that the nation’s wrath shall befall them and soon they will be avenged for such treachery by the people of Pakistan. The examples of Tunisia and Egypt are fresh and the Pakistani people are watching as the powerful pro-American Governments are shattering, owing to public anger and fury. The repercussions of such actions shall prove to be terminal for this Government, which is already handicapped and deemed to be a major failure in and outside Pakistan.

We are sincerely hoping that this news is not true and that Raymond Allen Davis, the American terrorist who was caught red-handed, will face a just trial in the Pakistani courts of law, and will not be granted any sort of immunity or pardon by the court or by the President.

 

[Thomas]

Just stop saying two robbers without any evidence, terrorist who killed innocents has to face court & punishment.

It was a terror act.
Why US government so interesting to support a terrorist?


What about crime rate then i am referring you site to check;

United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people

India: 0.0344083 per 1,000 people
(I didn't find Pakistan there)

Murders (per capita) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster


United states: 5.62 per 100,000
Pakistan : 3.60 per 100,000

Current Worldwide Homicide/Murder Rates

he has as much right to say 2 robbers as others to say the 2 were murdered. He bases his statements on what the police have said unlike many here who refuse to believe the police. Many Pakistani's refuse to believe they are robbers despite the evidence. And even if the court declared it was an act of self defense people would scream Government cover-up.

 

[Imran Khan]

i am 100000000000000% sure these PPP dalals will relese him out of law

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

and if they had no valid gun permits doesn't it add more weight to them being robbers?

No, because possession of weapons without legal permits is a huge problem in Pakistan, and therefore the lack of a permit is not evidence of being criminals, though it would be a crime itself.

In any case, did Raymond Davis have permits for the weapons he was carrying?

 

[The HBS Guy]

he has as much right to say 2 robbers as others to say the 2 were murdered. He bases his statements on what the police have said unlike many here who refuse to believe the police. Many Pakistani's refuse to believe they are robbers despite the evidence. And even if the court declared it was an act of self defense people would scream Government cover-up.

To quote a senior Pakistani journalist, it's basically a game of political ping-pong being played by the Federal govt. of Pakistan and the local Punjab govt.

Both are run by politically opposite parties and none wants to risk public anger by stating that Mr. Davis is indeed diplomatically immune.