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RAW formed to wipe Pakistan off the map of the world: Defence Minister Khawaja Asif

Yes and Indian did believe it. Maybe it was due to lack to good communication and i think it was same in both sides. But sometimes u can never win from a Indian in extra boasting


If it was the case then i should have sent my warm wishes and thanks to India for leaving our second biggest city. But sorry it was not true. Both countries will never leave a chance to get a single inch of others land. Remember Kashmir, Siachen, Kargil. Everywhere India captured first and thus creating disturbance in region!!
Nahi bahi nahi. Hum pakistani woh khilari hain jo kabhi hartay nahi. Na maydaan e jang may na baaton may. Yeh indians kya cheez hain hamaray agay.
Rest let em carry on beleveing in distorted historical accounts. Who it eventually damages. Noone but themselves.
 
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Nshi bhi nahi. Hum pakistani woh khilari hain jo kabhi hartay nahi. Na maydaan e jang may na baaton may. Yeh indians kya cheez hain hamaray agay.
Rest let em carry on beleveing in distorted historical accounts. Who it eventually damages. Noone but themselves.
Best of luck :pakistan:
 
primary focus is to collect information
running paramilitary operations is not their primary focus
So when did i say they are running paramilitary ops physically as in fighting it physically. Intel agents are trained in combat skills too. Not all but some.
 
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Second last is a fort in rajasthan tht we had captured.
So, Lahore v/s unknown fort in Rajastan. The problem is, in war there is no marks for "doing extremely well" but losing anyway... war is where winner loses and loser dies...
 
First they said hindus are traitors then killed them.
then the bengalis,
then christians,
then shias,
now mohajirs,
later ......?

The cycle will continue, theres is no stopping and they will always be an excuse for killings. Every nation's responsibility is to provide for welfare of its citizen. But in pakistans case, country does not exist for citizen but citizens exist for sake of country. We we can go on .... it will annoy most of fellow pakistanis, truth is often bitter.
We do not kill anyone just because of religion. It is India that is against us since our independence. And what is the difference between "Nation" and "Citizen" in Pakistan?
 
So when did i say they are running paramilitary ops physically as in fighting it physically. Intel agents are trained in combat skills too. Not all but some.

the idea is to collect intel without blowing up the place
 
As usual you can delude your self saying pakistan does not kill people or enact legislations against a group.

en.wikipedia-org wiki Sectarianism_in_Pakistan
en.wikipedia-org wiki Persecution_of_Ahmadis

There is no broad definition of nation it is evolving over period of time. Generally...

A piece of land => country
A piece of land inhabited by ppl => state
A piece of land inhabited by ppl having shared culture , values and binding spirit => nation
ppl who can vote, involve or share nations destiny => citizen

But exceptions are present , kurds nation without state. You can go and research you self.
Yar why u dont read my question properly? I asked what is the difference in Pakistan and u started telling me definitions which i can easily get from google. U started by saying we killed hindus and christians. When we have killed them? Are u blaming us with the actions u do in ur country? Killing people in Gujrat, Kashmir, Ghar wapsi etc just because of religion? Better to look into ur chest before blaming others!
 
Wuahaha!

Denying the facts that pakistan performed extremely well in 48, 65 and 99 and even in 71(e.g battle of hilli), and gave India such a hard time that India still seethes in pain over those defeats and humiliation, historical facts wont be altered.

Dear Madam,

I don't want to rub salt on 71 and 99 fiasco, no point int doing that, but it seems that you have started believing your own lies on the 65 war so I will cross post a few lines.

So Lets hear from few Pakistani Gentlemen, I think their narrative of the war differs from you to, but do contemplate very carefully before you start questioning their credentials.


Air Chief Marshal: Asghar Khan
Air Chief Marshal: Nur Khan
Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin
Col. S.G Mehd (SSG Commander)



What do you have to say about 1965 war?

If you were to ask me this question when I was a young officer, my reply would have been quite different because I fought in that war, saw tactical action and in my perception we did well and beat back the aggressor and won the war. As one matures, learns and has the ability to analyze, one begins to differentiate between myth and reality, of course, with the advantage of the hindsight. 1965 War manifested the shortsightedness and immaturity of our political and military leadership. Pakistan started with ‘Operation Gibraltar’ in Kashmir. We have been made to think it was very bold and imaginative in conception and prepared by a great General. In my opinion it was bold, unimaginative, unpracticable plan. It was not in harmony with prevailing environment in Indian Held Kashmir. It was based on dangerous assumptions and its time frame was unrealistic and quixotic. The plan reflected strategic naivety and immaturity. To top it all the preparation and subsequently the execution displayed lack of professionalism. Since it lacked politico-strategic framework and vision it placed Pakistan in a very precarious position. On its failure, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was launched, which did make military sense since it enjoyed the superiority of strategic orientation. The capture of objective (Akhnur Bridges) would sever the Indian lines of communication in Kashmir and force them to retract. This operation was to suffer a major setback when the advance was halted because of an explainable change of command in the middle of the battle. Indians were so threatened by this move that they attacked with full might across the international border threatening Lahore and Sialkot. Our leaders panicked, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was brought to a grinding halt. Later, a brilliantly conceived Riposte from Khem Karan failed because a correct mix of units was not mustered to achieve a superior relative strength situation at the right time at the right place. We won a lot of battles but lost the war as we failed to attain the political aim of defreezing and the ultimate liberation of the Kashmir. Ayub Khan thus ruined the national economy by one wrong decision that had taken him several years to build.

Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat, SJ

Cover Story


This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned.

This would have held the hands of the adventurers who followed Gen Ayub. Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999, he said.

In each of the subsequent wars we have committed the same mistakes that we committed in 1965.

Air Marshal Khan demanded that a truth commission formed to find out why we failed in all our military adventures. It is not punishment of the failed leadership that should be the aim of the commission but sifting of facts from fiction and laying bare the follies and foibles of the irresponsible leaders in matters with grave implications for the nation. It should also point out the irregularities committed in training and promotions in the defence forces in the past so that it is not repeated in future


Nur Khan reminisces ’65 war - Newspaper - DAWN.COM


Excerpt From the conclusion:
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin:
Ambition, lust for glory etc are perfectly reasonable aspirations where they are matched with military talent pertaining to operational strategy, low intensity operations, strategic insight or statesmanship! All these were sadly lacking at all levels, except unit level bravery and enthusiasm! Gibraltar failed because of pure and unadulterated military incompetence and Akhtar Malik bears the principle responsibility for Gibraltar! The Grand Slam story was different!It wasnot a case ofbalanced distribution of lack of talent at all levels that resulted in the failure of Grand Slam! The principle reason why Grand Slam failed was delay in initial launching and change of command!


Grand Slam - A Battle of Lost Opportunities




this is your Air Chief Marshal Asghar Khan.


Some of Col. S.G Mehdi wisdom.

Conclusion by SSG’s commander: “Had our Government initiated a probe into concept, conduct and consequences of 1965 War’, and raised the curtain from the acts of gross omission or that of the criminal commission, the ignominy of 1971 could have been avoided. “

1965 War — Some Harsh Realities | Ehtisham Siddiqui


Hope that helps :tup:
 
Milspec Iknow this is the exact post u had posted in afghanistan trade route thread.

@Umair Nawaz that post was directed at you right.?
Watch this video and watch how stupid this asghar khan was. he was a disgraced army officer. Watch from 2.23.
And when the anchor asks the question watch ths asghars sheepish expression and how he shamelessly confessed. Why he wasnt court martialled for that? Tho he had resigned from his post.

 
Milspec Iknow this is the exact post u had posted in afghanistan trade route thread.

@Umair Nawaz that post was directed at you right.?
Watch this video and watch how stupid this asghar khan was. he was a disgraced army officer. Watch from 2.23.
And when the anchor asks the question watch ths asghars sheepish expression and how he shamelessly confessed. Why he wasnt court martialled for that? Tho he had resigned from his post.


Dear madam,

Yes you are right, same content from another thread, and used quite often, that is what the word crosspost translates into.


I am quite amazed at your ignorance. Asghar Khan was an Airforce Officer, not an army officer.... and as far as you questioning his credentials do remember:
>a three star rank air marshal— who served as the first native Commander in Chief of the Pakistan Air Force
>In 1950, Asghar Khan assumed the directorship of the Directorate-General of the Air Operations (DGAO)
>was appointed as the Assistant Chief of the Air Staff in the Air Headquarters
>As Assistant Chief of the Air Staff, Asghar Khan established the major units and infrastructure including the Fighter Leaders School (now Combat Commander's School), the Air Staff College and the College of Aeronautical Engineering at the Pakistan Air Force Academy
>the first native Air Force Commander-in-chief, yet at the age of 36, also the youngest to-date.
>Asghar Khan commanded the air force for next eight years where he took initiatives to modernize and expand the air force facilities, installations and equipment, as well as the fighter jets acquired from the United States
And you video reinforces that avoided your forces being toasted in the rann of kutch too, instead of thanking him you call him a disgrace. If a man with such mammoth credentials is a disgrace, then what does it say about humble civilians like me and you?

After such achievements and service being called as a disgrace is quite surprising, even two of his brothers died fighting for pakistan, and rest of his life he stood up against military dicatators, when the rest of them sheepishly stayed quite.... anyways your citizen, you choose how to commemorate him.

Lets assume for a min that the AVM Asghar Khan was a disgrace, What about his sucessor Nur Khan was he a disgrace too, he seems to have the exact same opinion of the 65 war? and what about Col SS Mehdi, he was on the ground fighting, maybe you know more than him too.... Please do educate us.

regards
 
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As they try to harm us, we will harm them back and inflict pain on them.
 
yes he was air marshal, i know. But i generally use word army for everyone, not in a specific sense to referred to armed forces . So if its such a nitpicking contest fine i will keep it specific to job designation . As of the rest of the post ihavent read it fully , lemme do so in a while.
 

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