Ranjit Singh : The Quintessential Indus Man

[notsuperstitious]

Ok I don't know what you mean by that statement ? We never left... we stayed where we were.. both during and after partition.. Punjabis stayed in Punjab, Kashmriis stayed in Kashmir, Balochis stayed in Balochistan, Sindhis stayed in Sindh and Pushtoons stayed in NWFP..

are you talking about Indian muslims that they left India and migrated to Pakistan ? Shame on you... I don't think Musharraf and many Indian muslims are intolerant supremacists..

but if you are getting really happy that some Indian Muslims left.. then I won't snatch your "happy moment" away from you...

Thank you for that, as to what i meant about who left what, i stand by what i said. I said that to an intolerant supremacist and there must be a reason why you think it applies to you. a skin deep reason

 

[k_n]

Errr.. what?? The Sikh panth's foundation is the Rehat Maryada.. the code of conduct.. It is basically a path to the RELIGION of Sikhism! Buddhism and Jainism our their own religions.. quit trolling by saying that Sikhism is not a religion.. maybe not in your Hindu RSS books.. but ask the rest of the Sikhs here...



First of all, get your facts straight.. Majority of the muslims in Indian subcontinent are not "foreign blood"... majority of Muslims are subcontinental.. their ancestors were Hindus who rejected Hinduism... same goes for Sikhism... those guys were SIKHS!!! As soon as they got baptized into Sikhism, that was it, they were HINDUS NO LONGER!! Get that through your head.. there is no such thing as "Hindu blood".. Hinduism is just a philosophy...



Before the 10th Guru, there was no such thing as baptism into the Sikh religion.. it was an idea which you followed... and all the writings and teachings of those Sufi saints.. be that Islam or Sikhism.. it does not matter.. all Sikhs follow them.. because they teach pretty much the same thing as what Guru Nanak taught!! As for conversions, there was never a request for anyone to be converted.. there still isn't.. you should come to Punjab and see how badly the so called "Rashtriya Sikh Sangat" (Hindu RSS converts to Sikhism) are HATED.. they are HINDUS at heart.. only put the turban on their head to try to corrupt the Sikh religion.... it is stupid stuff like that which RSS pulls which is making Punjab getting back close to extremist views... just like how they recently started hanging Bhindrawala's picture in the main Sikh museum at Amritsar..

Also doesn't change the fact about people such as Abul Turrani and Mohammad Bashir.. spies sent by their respective governments to spy on Khalsa fighters... and they all ended up converting to Sikhism.. Abul Turrani was Mughal Spy who converted and became Ajmer Singh when he infiltrated Khalsa army.. and Bashir Muhammad was Indian government spy who was spying on Khalistani fighters but ended up joining them and converting and becoming Lachman Singh Babbar.. not that we are big on conversions.. we don't ask anyone to convert to Sikhism.. just leave us alone and stop claiming that we're Hindus...



No one ASKED them to be converted.. and since they converted, they are HINDUS NO MORE!!!



Or pick up the sword and fight for themselves for a change?? Sikhs were not even such a strong military force when Guru Tegh Bahadur was asked for help.. Rajputs or Marathas were way stronger.. but still he ended up achieving Shahadat for them..



So what difference does that make?? Even Mughal emporers like Jehangir had a Hindu link to them.. so go label them Hindus.. we're Sikhs through and through.. it is not the blood in your viens which makes you a Sikh but your faith and practices which make you a Sikh... you guys have yet to get that through your head...

Cool down mate .

Sikhs are a separate religious community and should work for the recognition in the constitution by the GOI .
Here , I would like to talk to you about the civil laws governing 'Hindu' community . The constitution is itself framed to reform the 'Hindu' society and has accomplished its bit in the last 60 yrs .

The Sikh intellectuals and Sikh political leaders across the political spectrum must arrive at a consensus amongst themselves to frame separate civil laws governing the community with consultations from Akal Takht . If this task is left ONLY for the Akal Takht to achieve , then there will be plenty of friction between the community itself .

You have made a comment about Buddhism and Jainism being separate from the fold of Hinduism . Politically , Hinduism and Buddhism have competed against each other but all through the history of Buddhism in India the masses have not held a prejudiced opinion of the other . Relations between Jainism and Hinduism have been even more smooth . The conflict b/w Buddhism and Hinduism started with the former receiving patronage from groups belonging from outside of India seeking their political motives in the territories that formerly had been under the domination of Brahminical elite . Since , Jainism never received such patronage there are lesser instances of conflict .
Traditionally , the communities that have practitioners of both Hinduism and Jainism in their fold ( Trading community ) , today JAINS amongst them are not seeking a separate representation , identity and political share although more and more Jains will continue to represent themselves as JAINS and not HINDUS in census that will follow .

Here , the Sikh community needs to takes a more broader outlook and reconciles itself from the fact that Sikhism has indeed evolved into a separate religious dogma from the 'Nirguna philosophy' of Bhakti period , having its roots in contemporary Hinduism .
Besides , there is no denying that different castes within the present day Sikh community prior to turning towards the teachings of Guru Nanak Devji had been under the influence of Bhakti Saints and the upper caste converts were more streamlined with the caste differentiation of medieval Hinduism .
The Hindus need to stop considering Sikhs as a separate 'sect' , BECAUSE SIKHISM IS A SECT NO MORE .

Mutual understanding and appreciation of each others' similarities is the only way forward for both our religions .

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Thank you for that, as to what i meant about who left what, i stand by what i said. I said that to an intolerant supremacist and there must be a reason why you think it applies to you. a skin deep reason

but as I said.... we never left.. we are where we are!! If you are talking about someone who left then it must be Indian Muslims.. who migrated to Pakistan and I don't think they are intolerant supremacists..

A skin deep reason <----- all that coming from a Marathi who claimed in some other thread that he or Marathis are lighter skinned than Punjabis and Kashmiris.. what a joke!!

 

[Omar1984]

yes i Agree... i tried explaining that to Omar.. but he is very very rigid

I'm not rigid. I just dont like anything about hindu culture and I dont really care too much about sikh culture either. All the hindus and sikhs I met in real life try to explain their religion and their lifestyle and I dont think we Muslims are anything like them, they are too different. Sikhs are different from hindus too, I'v seen some sikhs in U.S. who put stickers like "Proud to be Sikh" and picture of Punjab and their Sikh sword on their cars, they see themselves as Sikhs before anything else which is good for them.


The only thing I like about the subcontinent is what Muslims brought like Taj Mahal, Badshahi Masjid, Shalimar Gardens, Shalwar Kameez, Urdu & Persian literature, food, architecture, art, and most importantly Islam.

 

[Chiru]

I'm not rigid. I just dont like anything about hindu culture and I dont really care too much about sikh culture either. All the hindus and sikhs I met in real life try to explain their religion and their lifestyle and I dont think we Muslims are anything like them, they are too different. Sikhs are different from hindus too, I'v seen some sikhs in U.S. who put stickers like "Proud to be Sikh" and picture of Punjab and their Sikh sword on their cars, they see themselves as Sikhs before anything else which is good for them.


The only thing I like about the subcontinent is what Muslims brought like Taj Mahal, Badshahi Masjid, Shalimar Gardens, Shalwar Kameez, Urdu & Persian literature, food, architecture, art, and most importantly Islam.

and also killing and destruction.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

and also killing and destruction.

also better genes (I won't associate that with Muslims, but they just happen to be Muslims).. but Turks, Afghans and especially Persians (Persians are extremely attractive and beautiful)..

otherwise all Indians would have ended up being of Dravidian stock (right now atleast 1&#37; Indians are not of Dravidian stock - the ones you see in Bollywood )

 

[Chiru]

also better genes (I won't associate that with Muslims, but they just happen to be Muslims).. bu Turks, Afghans and especially Persians (Persians are extremely attractive and beautiful)..

otherwise all Indians would have ended up being of Dravidian stock (right now atleast 1% Indians are not of Dravidian stock - the ones you see in Bollywood )

Looks like you have obsession with faces and looks.

Yes Persian and Palestine people/girls are very attractive.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Looks like you have obsession with faces and looks.

Yes Persian and Palestine people/girls are very attractive.

thanks for atleast admitting something... I am part Iranian... and Persian girlz are known around the world for being beautiful..

Other than looting and killing... Persians and Afghans did brought good genes to North Indians.. you can't say that Invasions of India only had negative consequences..

 

[Chiru]

thanks for atleast admitting something... I am part Iranian... and Persian girlz are known around the world for being beautiful..

Other than looting and killing... Persians and Afghans did brought good genes to North Indians.. you can't say that Invasions of India only had negative consequences..

jinxe, Post some pic of persian and Palestine models.

 

[Peshwa]

Looks like you have obsession with faces and looks.

Yes Persian and Palestine people/girls are very attractive.

Tell you what buddy....

U know how all the ugly folks work in radio....

On the internet, only the folks that are compensating will be ones boasting of their physical appearance.....Take it with a grain of salt....These are also the same people that you wouldnt want to Touch with a ten foot pole....

Anyways some things never change....
"Gadhe ko agar tum kala kar do to kya ban jati hai bail?"

 

[jinxeD_girl]

jinxe, Post some pic of persian and Palestine models.

check the pics of Persian women and models in "beautiful pics of Iran" thread.. me and other Iranian members have uploaded some

As far as Palestini models are concerned... I don't know much about Arab models..

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Tell you what buddy....

U know how all the ugly folks work in radio....

On the internet, only the folks that are compensating will be ones boasting of their physical appearance.....Take it with a grain of salt....These are also the same people that you wouldnt want to Touch with a ten foot pole....
Anyways some things never change....
"Gadhe ko agar tum kala kar do to kya ban jati hai bail?"

I wasn't talking about myself.. I was talking about Persian women in general.. I think Marathis can read english? They are not illiterate..

I am very very ugly girl..

 

[Peshwa]

I wasn't talking about myself.. I was talking about Persian women in general.. I think Marathis can read english? They are not illiterate..

I am very very ugly girl..

Little girl....first complete school before trying to become the principal.....

I never called you ugly....I spoke about "radio stars"....You happen to be an "internet diva"....that has its own category.....

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

The only thing I like about the subcontinent is what Muslims brought like Taj Mahal, Badshahi Masjid, Shalimar Gardens, Shalwar Kameez, Urdu & Persian literature, food, architecture, art, and most importantly Islam.

Sorry to bust your bubble but Urdu is essentially Hindi with some mixed Persian words used by Muslims of UP/Bihar and those places.. urdu is far closer to hindi than to persian.. also language of early mughal rulers was actually mongol language... later when they got little civilized they started speaking persian but urdu was never used by mughal rulers.. urdu is a subcontinental language only used by subjects of mughal rule.. not rulers themselves..

and salwar kameez is punjabi dress.. it is there WAY before those invasions.. actually those clothes are related to Jatt culture and Jatts trace their lineage to scythians (who are now extinct but scythians were people located in central asia. ones that stayed there mixed with mongols and turks.. ones that travelled north mixed with slavic people and ones that travelled south mixed with indo-aryan people).. but even today groups from eastern european countries (especially ukraine).. central asian countries and punjabi jatts share some common stuff and types of clothes is one.. salwar kameez or kurta pajama has been there way before mughals/mongols even accepted islam..

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Sorry to bust your bubble but Urdu is essentially Hindi with some mixed Persian words used by Muslims of UP/Bihar and those places.. urdu is far closer to hindi than to persian..
..

Iqbal-Brar, you are right! Urdu is Indic language, and it originated in present day India.. in UP and Bihar etc...

http://img638.imageshack.us/i/iesatem1.png/