Raja Dahir Sen The Forgotten warrior of SIndh

[Sinnerman108]

300 years. When the bulk converted.

After they saw that the elite had all converted for political gain.

Make no mistake. The conquest of Persia was political.

As was its conversion.

Its what ensured that Islam became a world religion. And did not remain just another small Arab one.

Of course it also ensured the continuing strife the religion has witnessed non stop for the past 1300+ years. From the same chain of events.

@Sinnerman108

Cheers, Doc

The deciding factor is central asia.

It is true that arabs used force to spread religion to some extent.
However if that was 100% true then we would see absolute islamization of Spain, north africa.
It is true that there is Jewish population in Iraq, Iran even Yemen; christian population in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon.

The tussle between Arabs and Persia goes beyond Islam.

The subcontinent got Muslim intervention not so much through Sindh, as is mostly considered.
but it was from Central Asian influence.

 

[Dubious]

Can you provide some credible non Muslim source for what YOU claim Dubious?

I'd be really interested to read a non Muslim source of some credibility that says subcontinent Muslims have descended from those who converted voluntarily for the most part.

Mind you, I'm sure many did. To escape social stigma inherent to Hinduism and its caste structure.

Cheers, Doc

http://archive.spectator.co.uk/arti...am-at-the-cross-roads-by-de-lacy-oleary-kagan

https://islamireland.ie/site/assets/files/1195/the_sword_of_islam.pdf

https://thewire.in/history/high-time-discarded-pernicious-myth-indias-medieval-muslim-villains

I leave you with some questions:

IF say Islam was violent how do we have Arab Coptic Christians? Arab Coptic Christians are those who have been Christians for generations. So if Islam spread by the sword, shouldnt the 1st to taste it be the Arab Christians? How are there still some Arab Christians alive if they were supposed to be killed by the sword during the spread of Islam?

Why were Jews running to Ottoman empire, wasnt Islam / Muslim sultanate considered danger for Non Muslims? There are historical records of Jews being given protection by Muslims. - https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/besa/index.asp
- https://www.timesofisrael.com/confe...-muslims-who-protected-jews-during-holocaust/
- http://time.com/4651298/holocaust-memorial-day-muslims-jews/

Why would Muslims who are supposed to kill Jews harbouring them by risking their lives?

It would have been the best chance to get rid of the Jewish population that Muslims hate so much right?

Then we have Malaysia, Indonesia, Some parts of Africa....what crusades took place there for mass conversion of Muslims? What brutal forces converted entire countries? Do use that precious thing god gave you known as brain before making sweeping remarks out of ignorance!

If Islam was spread by the sword, where are the mass graves like that of a genocide?

 

[padamchen]

Its a similar situation you described in Persia, only difference is that our pockets of resistance survived and managed to push back. You would have found yourself in similar tangle as we are had Persia managed to stop the onslaught

Absolutely.

Why do you think for the last 10 years here I have been the most ardent student of Hindus Vs Muslims.

And also the most vociferous proponents of blood Vs faith ....

Hinduism also survived because of its mass.

The reduced ardor of religious zeal with distance from the Arabian deserts.

The fact that there was no ancient racial hatred between the people. Of masters and vassals. Just trade.

And above all, the fact that you were polytheist and never impacted on Abrahamic theology the way Zoroastrianism had.

It wasn't an easy swap. Civilizational. Spiritual. Theological.

The Persians found a way to morph. Then love and hate at the same time.

Cheers, Doc

 

[ranjeet]

@padamchen

Reconversion didnt happened because our bahmaans were too rigid and didn’t voluntarily seeked them back.

 

[padamchen]

The deciding factor is central asia.

It is true that arabs used force to spread religion to some extent.
However if that was 100% true then we would see absolute islamization of Spain, north africa.
It is true that there is Jewish population in Iraq, Iran even Yemen; christian population in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon.

The tussle between Arabs and Persia goes beyond Islam.

The subcontinent got Muslim intervention not so much through Sindh, as is mostly considered.
but it was from Central Asian influence.

The Arabs were very different with us.

It was (and remains) personal for them.

For us too.

I have no problem with desi Muslims. My closest friends have been Muslim.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Dubious]

I dont think so. Not all pages of wikipedia can be edited. Most of them are encrypted.

You gotta be kidding me! How old are you child?

 

[padamchen]

Bloch and pashto
current pak and large part of India embraced Islam by sufis like khwaja nizam even prior mughal times Sonny

Nice to be called sonny.

Cheers, Doc

 

[war&peace]

You gotta be kidding me! How old are you child?

Encrypted..does he even know the meanings of encrypted

 

[padamchen]

http://archive.spectator.co.uk/arti...am-at-the-cross-roads-by-de-lacy-oleary-kagan

https://islamireland.ie/site/assets/files/1195/the_sword_of_islam.pdf

https://thewire.in/history/high-time-discarded-pernicious-myth-indias-medieval-muslim-villains

I leave you with some questions:

IF say Islam was violent how do we have Arab Coptic Christians? Arab Coptic Christians are those who have been Christians for generations. So if Islam spread by the sword, shouldnt the 1st to taste it be the Arab Christians? How are there still some Arab Christians alive if they were supposed to be killed by the sword during the spread of Islam?

Why were Jews running to Ottoman empire, wasnt Islam / Muslim sultanate considered danger for Non Muslims? There are historical records of Jews being given protection by Muslims. - https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/besa/index.asp
- https://www.timesofisrael.com/confe...-muslims-who-protected-jews-during-holocaust/
- http://time.com/4651298/holocaust-memorial-day-muslims-jews/

Why would Muslims who are supposed to kill Jews harbouring them by risking their lives?

It would have been the best chance to get rid of the Jewish population that Muslims hate so much right?

Then we have Malaysia, Indonesia, Some parts of Africa....what crusades took place there for mass conversion of Muslims? What brutal forces converted entire countries? Do use that precious thing god gave you known as brain before making sweeping remarks out of ignorance!

If Islam was spread by the sword, where are the mass graves like that of a genocide?

The first asks me to log in.

The second is by the Islamic Cultural Council of Ireland.

The third is from the Wire. By a Hindu baiting Islamic apologist "expert" from the Rutgers.

It's like me putting Koenrad Elst forward as a credible western expert on Hinduism.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Dubious]

The first asks me to log in.

I can now see why you guys are misinformed

The second is by the Islamic Cultural Council of Ireland.

O was I supposed to spoonfeed you? I thought we are all grown ups and only need to be "shown" a sign....The 2nd is by an Islamic council but did you have the rare opportunity of actually reading where they quoted it from? So use the references and go read there...

The third is from the Wire. By a Hindu baiting Islamic apologist "expert" from the Rutgers.

I thought non Muslim also included India, no?

Audrey Truschke is a historian at Rutgers University-Newark. - So....Rutgers is Muslim University or Historians cant be associated with a university? Which one is causing the stomachache now? So now historians are "experts" with inverted commas but wikipedia is an EXPERT source in caps?

O I get it now, she is not part of Indian education system or a mandhir maybe?

This is now hitting trolling!

 

[padamchen]

I can now see why you guys are misinformed


O was I supposed to spoonfeed you? I thought we are all grown ups and only need to be "shown" a sign....The 2nd is by an Islamic council but did you have the rare opportunity of actually reading where they quoted it from? So use the references and go read there...


I thought non Muslim also included India, no?

Audrey Truschke is a historian at Rutgers University-Newark. - So....Rutgers is Muslim University or Historians cant be associated with a university? Which one is causing the stomachache now? So now historians are "experts" with inverted commas but wikipedia is an EXPERT source in caps?

O I get it now, she is not part of Indian education system or a mandhir maybe?

This is now hitting trolling!

Dubious, if you're done with your trolling fatwas -

I asked you for NON Islamic sources.

Sources cherry picked on an Islamic website do not qualify sadly.

And have you actually read the last piece? The bent and tone couldn't be missed by that same two year old Wiki expert.

Chalo. Nice debating with you. For what it was worth.

Cheers, Doc

 

[ranjeet]

http://archive.spectator.co.uk/arti...am-at-the-cross-roads-by-de-lacy-oleary-kagan

https://islamireland.ie/site/assets/files/1195/the_sword_of_islam.pdf

https://thewire.in/history/high-time-discarded-pernicious-myth-indias-medieval-muslim-villains

I leave you with some questions:

IF say Islam was violent how do we have Arab Coptic Christians? Arab Coptic Christians are those who have been Christians for generations. So if Islam spread by the sword, shouldnt the 1st to taste it be the Arab Christians? How are there still some Arab Christians alive if they were supposed to be killed by the sword during the spread of Islam?

Why were Jews running to Ottoman empire, wasnt Islam / Muslim sultanate considered danger for Non Muslims? There are historical records of Jews being given protection by Muslims. - https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/besa/index.asp
- https://www.timesofisrael.com/confe...-muslims-who-protected-jews-during-holocaust/
- http://time.com/4651298/holocaust-memorial-day-muslims-jews/

Why would Muslims who are supposed to kill Jews harbouring them by risking their lives?

It would have been the best chance to get rid of the Jewish population that Muslims hate so much right?

Then we have Malaysia, Indonesia, Some parts of Africa....what crusades took place there for mass conversion of Muslims? What brutal forces converted entire countries? Do use that precious thing god gave you known as brain before making sweeping remarks out of ignorance!

If Islam was spread by the sword, where are the mass graves like that of a genocide?

No religion which voluntarily seeked followers gained numbers peacefully. Empires were built on corpses not on the promises of liberation. We can comfortably say if its not only force than coercion was used for conversion.

 

[Dubious]

I asked you for NON Islamic sources.

And I gave you non Islamic sources...If you go blind when you see the truth it is def not my problem!

READ FIRST THEN COMPLAIN! But I guess you dont do that much, eh?

Sources cherry picked on an Islamic website do not qualify sadly.

Cherry picked or not, you have the free will to go trace them down...oh wait that would be called research something you are allergic to, right?

What non hindu / non religious purely historical sources can you cite for Islam being spread with terror?

No religion which voluntarily seeked followers gained numbers peacefully. Empires were built on corpses not on the promises of liberation. We can comfortably say if its not only force than coercion was used for conversion.

We arent talking about empires yet...We are talking about the spread...It is a known historical fact that Arabs started off as traders...This is inked in African history and the history of South East Asia....

It is further stated that Muslims came as traders and married into the locals so to show everyone is equal.

 

[ranjeet]

Dubious, if you're done with your trolling fatwas -

I asked you for NON Islamic sources.

Sources cherry picked on an Islamic website do not qualify sadly.

And have you actually read the last piece? The bent and tone couldn't be missed by that same two year old Wiki expert.

Chalo. Nice debating with you. For what it was worth.

Cheers, Doc

You see what secularism is getting us into?

 

[Dubious]

@padamchen You didnt even bother reading the bonus common sense question kinds of prove you were trolling after all

I leave you with some questions:

IF say Islam was violent how do we have Arab Coptic Christians? Arab Coptic Christians are those who have been Christians for generations. So if Islam spread by the sword, shouldnt the 1st to taste it be the Arab Christians? How are there still some Arab Christians alive if they were supposed to be killed by the sword during the spread of Islam?

Why were Jews running to Ottoman empire, wasnt Islam / Muslim sultanate considered danger for Non Muslims? There are historical records of Jews being given protection by Muslims. - https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/besa/index.asp
- https://www.timesofisrael.com/confe...-muslims-who-protected-jews-during-holocaust/
- http://time.com/4651298/holocaust-memorial-day-muslims-jews/

Why would Muslims who are supposed to kill Jews harbouring them by risking their lives?

It would have been the best chance to get rid of the Jewish population that Muslims hate so much right?

Then we have Malaysia, Indonesia, Some parts of Africa....what crusades took place there for mass conversion of Muslims? What brutal forces converted entire countries? Do use that precious thing god gave you known as brain before making sweeping remarks out of ignorance!

If Islam was spread by the sword, where are the mass graves like that of a genocide?

All from NON MUSLIM SOURCES