Rafale Vs. Su-30MKI - The New Indian Dogfight

[#hydra#]

A

Maybe... but the IAF (Like most AFs around the world) is shifting away from this thinking (Operating dedicated ground attack aircraft) and wants true multi role fighters which can perform all kinds of missions, something the Su 34 cant do.

At high cost... What ever, top brass in iaf knows more about fighters and there doctrine than we arm chair warriors,let us hope iaf will get what they want

 

[Koovie]

A

At high cost... What ever, top brass in iaf knows more about fighters and there doctrine

 

[PARIKRAMA]

• Su34 is a dedicated bomber.. Unless you have air superiority the tactical bombers wont come into play. The Su34 as i posted in a another thread is atm very (mind i said very) inferior to Su 30 MKI.
• The present doctrine of IAF does not specify the role of dedicated bomber and hence you can see we have not purchased , planned or upgraded any bomber fleet for last 20+ years.
• The operational doctrine of IAF wants descent A2A capability to come with A2G. This is where only Jags played a vital role and now Rafale is touted to fill the need.
• If you compare in terms of payload any given day Su34 will beat Rafale hands down. But chances of Su34 passing through hostile territory with modern AD's is much lower as compared to Rafale.
• In my humble opinion the capacity enhancement in fleet level and capability levels coming to neighbours like China atm should not concern us way beyond our own planned need of self sufficiency and strived modernisaation plan to fill 45 squadrons and earliest possible replacement of all Mi21/27 sqds in numbers via LCA Mk1/2
• Rafale cost atm is an overestimated point of contention as flyaway cost of rafale is estimated as of 2013 as
  • One source says On the Rafale, the total program cost is €45.9 billion, excluding the development cost, with a unit price of €74 million for the B twin-seater, €68.8 million the C single-seater, and €79 million for the M naval version, based on 2013 prices, a French Senate report said.
  • Egypt Seeks Bank Loans for French Arms Buy
• Thus flyaway cost is at present Euro/dollar rate its approximately 1.10 means $83 Mn (C single seater). For approximation and inflation wise data correction you may guesstimate it at $90 Mn. So if we consider the TOT being made available then its not a bad deal considering a Su30MKI at present costs around $58-60 Mn and any planned upgradation to AESA radar or Super Standard will escalate the price per bird to around $ 75 Mn. Both these prices are non comparable as there is good deal of localisation already done for Su30MKI bcz of which the price advantage is clearly visible as of now. Thus comparing from price point of view is not correct at all.
• Finally If rafale comes its good if it does not then we should go ahead with our planned projects of LCA MK2, AMCA, FGFA and concentrate on them rather than buying any other aircrafts from any place. It serves more in such a case to order FGFA few upfront and go MKI route for them too and in the meantime fast track LCA MK2 and AMCA. Mind you both these birds cannot replace rafale at all. These birds are in drawing board and rafale is a proven beast so whole together a differenec of sky and earth. But over a period of time, we have to depend upon the indigenous projects for greater number and perhaps cost advantage. (Both doubtful atm as Military complex is not that matured and scrapping of MMRCA means further complications to attain maturity such a industry.)

​

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

 

[kakathiya]

IAF should learn from IN they are more professional than the airforce

 

[topgun047]

IAF should learn from IN they are more professional than the airforce

Navy also takes the best pilots.

 

[#hydra#]

• Su34 is a dedicated bomber.. Unless you have air superiority the tactical bombers wont come into play. The Su34 as i posted in a another thread is atm very (mind i said very) inferior to Su 30 MKI.
• The present doctrine of IAF does not specify the role of dedicated bomber and hence you can see we have not purchased , planned or upgraded any bomber fleet for last 20+ years.
• The operational doctrine of IAF wants descent A2A capability to come with A2G. This is where only Jags played a vital role and now Rafale is touted to fill the need.
• If you compare in terms of payload any given day Su34 will beat Rafale hands down. But chances of Su34 passing through hostile territory with modern AD's is much lower as compared to Rafale.
• In my humble opinion the capacity enhancement in fleet level and capability levels coming to neighbours like China atm should not concern us way beyond our own planned need of self sufficiency and strived modernisaation plan to fill 45 squadrons and earliest possible replacement of all Mi21/27 sqds in numbers via LCA Mk1/2
• Rafale cost atm is an overestimated point of contention as flyaway cost of rafale is estimated as of 2013 as
  • One source says On the Rafale, the total program cost is €45.9 billion, excluding the development cost, with a unit price of €74 million for the B twin-seater, €68.8 million the C single-seater, and €79 million for the M naval version, based on 2013 prices, a French Senate report said.
  • Egypt Seeks Bank Loans for French Arms Buy
• Thus flyaway cost is at present Euro/dollar rate its approximately 1.10 means $83 Mn (C single seater). For approximation and inflation wise data correction you may guesstimate it at $90 Mn. So if we consider the TOT being made available then its not a bad deal considering a Su30MKI at present costs around $58-60 Mn and any planned upgradation to AESA radar or Super Standard will escalate the price per bird to around $ 75 Mn. Both these prices are non comparable as there is good deal of localisation already done for Su30MKI bcz of which the price advantage is clearly visible as of now. Thus comparing from price point of view is not correct at all.
• Finally If rafale comes its good if it does not then we should go ahead with our planned projects of LCA MK2, AMCA, FGFA and concentrate on them rather than buying any other aircrafts from any place. It serves more in such a case to order FGFA few upfront and go MKI route for them too and in the meantime fast track LCA MK2 and AMCA. Mind you both these birds cannot replace rafale at all. These birds are in drawing board and rafale is a proven beast so whole together a differenec of sky and earth. But over a period of time, we have to depend upon the indigenous projects for greater number and perhaps cost advantage. (Both doubtful atm as Military complex is not that matured and scrapping of MMRCA means further complications to attain maturity such a industry.)

​

No,they are designed as fighter bomber.its having air to air capabilities but not on par with mki or rafale

What we currently required is a good air to ground plat form,to kick the enemy on ground from air.at the end its the army and navy wins the war,shear air superority alone wont bring victory.

Su 34 were able to pass through AD of both China and Pakistan, that what we want.and I don't think rafale will bring us any use full offensive capability against China,the main obstacle for any air craft to fly in to Chineese territory is not the AD caplity of china,its the Tibeten plateau.we require a heavy fighter bomber to do that task and PLAAF currently having hell lot of heavy weights in there arsenal to get inside Indian territory.

 

[SajeevJino]

.

I have to say Rafale is the only fighter jet that uses it's cannon in a combat mission and scored Kills

any Flanker guys have similar record

 

[#hydra#]

.

I have to say Rafale is the only fighter jet that uses it's cannon in a combat mission and scored Kills

any Flanker guys have similar record

Neither f 15 also,but scored 103 kills without a single combat lose

.

I have to say Rafale is the only fighter jet that uses it's cannon in a combat mission and scored Kills

any Flanker guys have similar record

please go through this thread for the answer Rafale Vs. Su-30MKI - The New Indian Dogfight | Page 2

 

[SajeevJino]

Neither f 15 also,but scored 103 kills without a single combat lose
please go through this thread for the answer Rafale Vs. Su-30MKI - The New Indian Dogfight | Page 2

hey what's you Talking about I asked you to bring some evidence of Flankers or any other 4th gen fighter can score ground Kills using it's cannon

not the blah blah. if you don't have pls stop quote me

 

[janon]

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Huh? So the MKI is much more fuel efficient than Rafale? That doesn't sound right.

 

[dray]

IMO Rafale cannot counter J-10B. J-10B has DSI Rafale does not.

People are trying to have a serious discussion here.

 

[CONNAN]

More information for rafale and sukhoi fans

new backbone of india : su-30mki vs rafale vs tejas mk2 ?
Sukhoi Su-35 vs Dassault Rafale
Rafale vs sukhoi 30 mki
Rafale Vs Su-30 MKi

i remember this quote by a member

Another day Another thread and the saga continues..

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]