RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[notorious_eagle]

Marcos,

To the contrary, india has not achieved any single goal in the aftermath of kargil----I am surprised and I don't know what made you believe of that---the dispute that needed to be brought out in the open by the kargil incursion is out in the open for the last many years----the world knows that there needs to be a resolve to the issue in order to make peace---that was the primary goal for oper kargil---what are we missing over here.

Most of the peaks were abandoned by PA, the most important strategic peaks are still under PA's control .

On another note, Kargil was an absolute political blunder by Pakistan, i have no idea what our Officers were smoking when they were developing the operational plans and taking into consideration the political effects this operation would have on Pakistan.

 

[Manticore]

yes , right now f16s and jft blk1 have a difficult job of dealing with m2k, su30 and mmrca --- but with jft blk2 and fc20 coming in the picture , the odds wont be that bleak for paf as posted by many members -- these new fighters will take a lot of weight off the shoulders of f16s

i am really sick of the words ''war proven , matured'' - most of the new tech undergoes a lot of computer simulations and dont need them to enter a war to prove their worthiness -- however integration needs time ---- this goes out for both the new platforms like rafale and jft

the topic is not about politics , su30 , economics , iaf vs paf , 65/71 war etc --IT's about rafale vs f16

great! now kargil saga has also been added ;-(

 

[majesticpankaj]

as u people are comparing non-inducted plane with operational plan . . . . . .

Rafale is inducted in French airforce

 

[marcos98]

Marcos,

To the contrary, india has not achieved any single goal in the aftermath of kargil----I am surprised and I don't know what made you believe of that---the dispute that needed to be brought out in the open by the kargil incursion is out in the open for the last many years----the world knows that there needs to be a resolve to the issue in order to make peace---that was the primary goal for oper kargil---what are we missing over here.

To a political problem, there can only be a political solution. And that in the event of a failure of policy, the employment of the military can be solely to purchase the time required for governments to find a political solution.
A political solution was definitely not one of the outcome. The International community pinned downed Pakistan as an Aggressor against aggrieved and restrained opponent.
This again led to a notion of Pakistan being seen as an "risk taking" country .
Sensing a deteriorating military scenario, diplomatic isolation, and the risks of a larger conventional and nuclear war, Sharif ordered the Pakistani army to vacate the Kargil heights.
The ultimate aim to give fillip to the militant insurgency and so called freedom fighters fizzled to say the least.
Its evident that PA wanted to replicate siachen in kargil, that too fizzled.

All in all, I stand by my view of moral and diplomatic victory for India.

I absolutely agree with you.. but was there a F-16 block 52+ or dassualt Rafale involved there??
and the tone of your statement prompted that response..
Kargil for all its misadventures.. did show how ill informed RAW was...and that due to its negligence, the jugular of Kashmir was under the sights of the PA .. Still, nothing to do with the topic. and so please come back to the two jets.. or move on.

Ok.
no more kargil. scouts promise.

 

[SBD-3]

Your ISI/Army is never a trusted source.. which is why we say it is fake... they have twisted the history.. they have been faking things ... which is why we say it is a fake news.. there is no former complaint launched with India regarding this... Even the american source didn't question India's action.. If the source was there ... surely US would have brought the issue on the table..

Thats the most interesting logic i have come across till date.......If you have the balls find a solid evidence that it was a fake news. If you find one, post it here, don't give us you openions. Put some facts on the table, if you have any.......

 

[Pfpilot]

The only reason this thread has been going on for so long is that people from both sides deal in absolute terms...some Indians are refusing to accept the f-16 is even capable of shooting down a Gnat, while some Pakistani members have convinced themselves that the Rafale is merely a European showpiece.
It doesnt take a genius to figure out the Rafale is a superior aircraft and as far as development is concerned, it is far earlier in its lifecycle and has a great amount of future development left in its airframe. At this point though, as the f-16 nears its end as a premier aircraft and Rafale enters such a phase, these two aircraft are comparable to a great extent. None of the Rafale advantages are so massive that the f-16 cannot hold its own against it.
But 5-10 years from now, maybe we wont be able to say the same, as the Rafale goes through numerous upgrades and our f-16s get left behind...but for now, it is close...not so much in the future.

 

[my name is arya]

well no doubt rafale is much i mean much better and advance plane then f16 ..

but its not just planes its condition we are inducting them not just for pakistan we have to handle china and MMRCA is mainly for china

well i personally wish we should induct at least 30-50 f35 planes for IN as we got offer

 

[my name is arya]

bro even we bring Raptor they will counter it with der saga jets.

well we dont need raptor but in starting pakistani were not agree that usa offered f35 for india ,that means we are buyes and buyer always has upper hands .

well it will not bad if we buy 30-50 just for little gift for china , rest our pakfa wow man

 

[danger007]

well we dont need raptor but in starting pakistani were not agree that usa offered f35 for india ,that means we are buyes and buyer always has upper hands .

well it will not bad if we buy 30-50 just for little gift for china , rest our pakfa wow man

really i dont want Raptor itself, my eyes on MCA. im just saying even if we bring raptor they will counter it with JF-17 or F-16 block52 as they did with su-30mki and now rafale.

 

[danger007]

mod close the thread

 

[The_Sidewinder]

self delete..

 

[rockstarIN]

Indeed, if the distance between India and Pakistan was the same as that of the USSR and USA, you would be absolutely right. But when your opponent is right next door and he is well versed with Anti BVR Tactics, the advantage is not that big anymore. Most of the fights between PAF and IAF will be held in WVR combat arena due to the close proximity between both the countries. You guys are placing way too much importance on BVR, its not just my opinion but that of professionals that BVR is an advantage but not that big in an Indo-Pak are

Sir,

Can you elaborate on the Anti BVR tactics?.......So far it can evade the incoming missile...or.....jam it......or....run away to exhaust the missile.

In the open air, what else can you do...?

As per your point, the Indo-Pak is too near to a BVR fight?...I do not Buy that argument...What if we come a little around? or we stay in the area for long...

I agree that it is not always BVR in air war, but it has got enough importance....and suppose a 10 vs 10 fight, you will see solvos of BVR missiles coming against the defenders... It is a reality, that is the soviet doctrine to fire at least 2 missiles simultaneously to the target to increase the success rate(I do not know whether IAF follows it).

 

[The_Sidewinder]

The only reason this thread has been going on for so long is that people from both sides deal in absolute terms...some Indians are refusing to accept the f-16 is even capable of shooting down a Gnat, while some Pakistani members have convinced themselves that the Rafale is merely a European showpiece.
It doesnt take a genius to figure out the Rafale is a superior aircraft and as far as development is concerned, it is far earlier in its lifecycle and has a great amount of future development left in its airframe. At this point though, as the f-16 nears its end as a premier aircraft and Rafale enters such a phase, these two aircraft are comparable to a great extent. None of the Rafale advantages are so massive that the f-16 cannot hold its own against it.
But 5-10 years from now, maybe we wont be able to say the same, as the Rafale goes through numerous upgrades and our f-16s get left behind...but for now, it is close...not so much in the future.

thnxx...atleat ur the one talking sense

 

[Manticore]

Sir,

Can you elaborate on the Anti BVR tactics?.......So far it can evade the incoming missile...or.....jam it......or....run away to exhaust the missile.

In the open air, what else can you do...?

As per your point, the Indo-Pak is too near to a BVR fight?...I do not Buy that argument...What if we come a little around? or we stay in the area for long...

I agree that it is not always BVR in air war, but it has got enough importance....and suppose a 10 vs 10 fight, you will see solvos of BVR missiles coming against the defenders... It is a reality, that is the soviet doctrine to fire at least 2 missiles simultaneously to the target to increase the success rate(I do not know whether IAF follows it).

i think paf makes use of land clutter as much as possible

 

[anathema]

Sir,

It is a reality, that is the soviet doctrine to fire at least 2 missiles simultaneously to the target to increase the success rate(I do not know whether IAF follows it).

IAF also follows the suite. Adder that india currently has - are present in two seekers - active/passive seeker and IR seeker. IAF doctorine suggests that it fires the missiles in salvo - so that even if one of the missile gets jammed, other will go through due to different seekers. How effective this is - only time will tell. But even French have followed the suite - with MICA coming in with two seekers.