@DBC – Thank you for for your perspective.
DBC,
U S has lost a tremendously by opening its arms to india----possibly an act of conscience by the Clinton administration in the 90's and carried forward by Bush----. Out of apathy towards the massive poor population, opputunity to save money, the american corporations transfered their jobs and skills to india at a terrible price to the american economy---. There is only one beneficiary in whole of this episode---and that is india----. The U S has been at a total loss-----. Job loss----foreign exchange loss---infra-structure loss---.
The problem now is to when are they going to admit to it----admission would mean that the americans blundered for the upteenth time.
Mastan Khan sir with all due respect i just don't get it...Job Loss --- Foreign Echange Loss - Infra structure loss....but how??? Did anyone ever ponder about how US companies gets more competitive because they reduce their cost more than by 1/3???
Conscience - My foot...Countries don't take decisions on conscience...All you are pointing to so called mistake about improving relations with India is implications in AF theater but what after the AF theater???
Honestly if i go by the logic then everyone should just stop dealing with China...Just today while travelling i was reading that a portion of the US flags will come from China for the July 4 celebrations...A prime example of American Job Loss - Foreign Exchange Loss - Infra Strucute Loss, no????
I don't think you perceive what MastanKhan is saying. He is intentionally not bringing in the off-topic China factor.
If US had not outsourced a lot of manufacturing to China, US would be comparatively poorer today --- but would still be numero uno --- and by a fair margin. USSR would have collapsed anyway and China would be nothing of what she is today.
Now China is a monster --- and will be easily bigger than US very soon. Had US not transferred manufacturing then China would have been what it is today after 15 -20 years at least --- plenty of time for US to to keep expanding. US had not seen this geo-political thing coming.
Now what ?
Who other than India poses a credible challenge to China? So US decides to join hands with us. For this US is having to do similar things to what she did to China. Just notice what Obama is saying --- 'We need manufacturing in US itself'. But still manufacturing will come to India and US is being forced to do it. We greatly benefit from this US proximity.
US blundered against China and if DBC's sentiments are widespread then US has blundered with us as well. But what is the nature of this blunder --- a subservient India like UK or an independent yet intellectually pro-US India?
The German economy has bounced back and manufacturing has had an important role to play. What manufacturing does Britain have?
Notice what DBC says:
But the fact that India eliminated the US fighters despite the President's personal interest and backing sent us a powerful message. And that message is India does not share our vision for future Indo-US ties.
But you claim that the European aircrafts were superior, your own ACM said otherwise. He said US weapons, sensors and radar was the best, so why were the American aircrafts rejected? Flying qualities some argue, the European aircrafts are faster and more nimble; but these issues could have been easily addressed. As a matter of fact the F/A-18 E/F with EPE engines will easily out perform the Rafale in every regime. The F/A-18 E/F flying qualities could have been further improved by eliminating the heavy landing gear, arrestor hook and reinforced undercarriage features needed only on a naval fighter, we did it for Spain - why not India?
Then there are those that suggest that the American fighters were rejected because of CISMOA, EUM and BECA, perhaps - but if India had such concerns why didn't India raise it? India had plenty of opportunities to do so, Obama was in India so were other high ranking officials the US will have made exceptions for India.
Implicit in these statements are the thoughts that US was willing to accommodate India more that even close allies. So what if the F-teens are marginally inferior --- if at all? After all US support to India will boost us. Some of DBC's previous posts indicate this.
Whether or not GoI had the measure of this sentiment or decided that this much was not enough given other US pressures or decided that a more independent foreign policy was expedient will never be known to us. Neither will it be easily known if most US foreign policy think-tanks share DBC's (former and present) sentiments. But i do feel sorry for Ashley Tellis --- he expended a lot of capital to be pro-India. He was given quite a punch.
At the end of the day there are differences in ways in which US and India behave. US is head above shoulders --- just too superior to all. Great powers recognize greatness --- or at least potential great power. The question is --- are we that confident? How long more before we decide and believe that none dare oppose us for what we feel most about.
A decision has been taken. Live with it. This is not just about F16blk52+ vs Rafael. Its more than that. But the final word has not been said about Indo-US partnership. It is amply clear than a significant chunk still roots for India. Deep inside most Indian politicians and Indian public are pro-US. It pays us to learn from them.
By the time Rafael/EF arrives in India in significant numbers a lot of water would have flown under the bridge. We will be in a better position to speculate about our relationship.
Fighter aircraft comparison --- in 15 years or so Rafael/EF > F16blk60. Then 5th gen stuff comes to play. F16blk52+ and MLUed F16s will be very potent --- but mostly within Pak airspace --- the numbers are too less otherwise.
India is rooting for a slower entanglement with US --- but a sure one at that.