Rafale Slipstream: India not to Budge on Lowering Jets’ Price

[my2cents]

Well its very hard to change a habit my friend. We are reading such threads since years and every time it turns out that its still not done. I wish Pakistan should use its influence in Arab countries to either sabotage this deal or at least make it difficult for Indians.

Good luck with that! See if French will give a f**k....

 

[Vergennes]

Was it worth it for Crimea?
Because you just lost billions and thousands of jobs. How friendly was Ukraine and its double games?

What ? We re-sold the Mistrals,and in 2015,we received orders worth to ~16Bn of €. Thousands of jobs will be created in the military industry.

Persons working for the defence industry is actually ~165.000 and is set to increase near 200.000 in ~2018 !

L’industrie de la défense devrait créer 40.000 emplois d’ici à 2018, Aéronautique - Défense

The Russians announced that no one will trust us or buy from us,we will loose billions and thousands of jobs,well this is just B.S.

2. There are friends, and their are brothers. They're made from necessity. Hence why France has brother called England and Germany even though you've had decades of war if not centuries with. Whos a "friendly" nation is South Asia? Pakistan? Because its ally on war on terror?

In case India attacks or invade an ally or a friendly nation to the West. (And then sanctions are imposed on India,or something like that.)

So I as again. Who would lease a nuclear submarine to the Worlds Largest democracy? and the nation of Gandhi?
And i'll answer it for you. Just Russia. Because they know India's ne'at (Intent).
Regardless of the above debate, as I've said. The Rafale deal, started politically, contenders were narrowed down politically, and was lost because of political action by your representative govt.

@Khafee @Blue Marlin

-Indians decreasing order,asking for full TOT,50% offsets + major modifications to the aircrafts and now says "we cannot afford it it's expensive".
-Negotiating the price as if we were selling carpets.

On the other hand we have countries ready to buy the Rafale without all these B.S.

 

[Blue Marlin]

What ? We re-sold the Mistrals,and in 2015,we received orders worth to ~16Bn of €. Thousands of jobs will be created in the military industry.

Persons working for the defence industry is actually ~165.000 and is set to increase near 200.000 in ~2018 !

L’industrie de la défense devrait créer 40.000 emplois d’ici à 2018, Aéronautique - Défense

The Russians announced that no one will trust us or buy from us,we will loose billions and thousands of jobs,well this is just B.S.



In case India attacks or invade an ally or a friendly nation to the West. (And then sanctions are imposed on India,or something like that.)



@Khafee @Blue Marlin

-Indians decreasing order,asking for full TOT,50% offsets + major modifications to the aircrafts and now says "we cannot afford it it's expensive".
-Negotiating the price as if we were selling carpets.

On the other hand we have countries ready to buy the Rafale without all these B.S.

dayumm!! have you seen the video some Pakistani trolls put up of how Indians and Chinese people cant do business . now remove the Chinese guy and put the french guy there instead. i was in Mumbai last year as i promised i friend i will visit his country and one day i went to a market/stalls and i wanted to buy a traditional outfit to blend in a bit more, my friend was with me to translate. i chose some cloths and told my mate to buy it. he was there for 10 minutes haggling the guy to get 30% off. i could not be asked so i told him to pay the guy in full and did one.

anyway story over.....
the french should play too haggle/taunt, besides in the space of negoations you have orders more than what your trying to sell to india. and not to long away the uae will be taking 60!! as i said before i shall give hope up until the end of the fiscal year which ends in march or is it February?

 

[Vergennes]

dayumm!! have you seen the video some Pakistani trolls put up of how Indians and Chinese people cant do business . now remove the Chinese guy and put the french guy there instead. i was in Mumbai last year as i promised i friend i will visit his country and one day i went to a market/stalls and i wanted to buy a traditional outfit to blend in a bit more, my friend was with me to translate. i chose some cloths and told my mate to buy it. he was there for 10 minutes haggling the guy to get 30% off. i could not be asked so i told him to pay the guy in full and did one.

anyway story over.....
the french should play too haggle/taunt, besides in the space of negoations you have orders more than what your trying to sell to india. and not to long away the uae will be taking 60!! as i said before i shall give hope up until the end of the fiscal year which ends in march or is it February?

The Indian fiscal year ends the March 31.
-
The French ambassador expects Rafale negotiations with India to drag up to 4 more months. (Expect 1 more year,if not more.)

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Joint approach to lower the cost of the AC, cheaper parts Made in India, Maintenance base in India, manpower to be trained in India which is also a lot cheaper.............. it makes good business sense for the UAE to link its buy with India.

None of these will be produced in India.. UAEAF personnel are trained by US & Pak officers ... Even UAE mirages were overhauled by PAC/Pakistan..

For more ask a Emirati Pilot @Khafee

 

[Blue Marlin]

The Indian fiscal year ends the March 31.
-
The French ambassador expects Rafale negotiations with India to drag up to 4 more months. (Expect 1 more year,if not more.)

well then if thats the case i assume they are not interested and are at a stale mate. what more to expect? more mki's and if god gives them brains, the mig 35 as well. the fgfa is due in the early 2020's and the amca will follow. whilst theri neighbor to the west will have inducted a squadron[18] of blk52+'s replace a large amount of the aging jets, some of the later model j-7's were made in the late 90's and early 2000's, they will have about another 20 years left in them as the retired early model jets will be used for parts. the mirage 3 and some mirage 5 will go too the rose 3's will stay till a strike fighter is ready. according to oscar [ a senior mod] a 5th gen fighter for them will be inducting in 2025.

china?...... they will leave india for dust. i have kept quiet on india's economic outlook in the future as it will cause conflict but what they are doing now is reflecting my opinion, and i think intelligence agencies abroad [you know who] have seen this too and are helping them, to eventually ruin them.

 

[Taygibay]

I wish Pakistan should use its influence in Arab countries to either sabotage this deal or at least make it difficult for Indians.

Pakistan can relax and have tea bro, the Indians can make it difficult and sabotage it all for/by themselves!

'nuff said, Tay.

 

[Ragnar]

Don't think France really cares. Saudis are buying weapons for whole Middle-East. Egypt will eventually get 3-4 squadrons.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

-Indians decreasing order,asking for full TOT,50% offsets + major modifications to the aircrafts and now says "we cannot afford it it's expensive".
-Negotiating the price as if we were selling carpets.

On the other hand we have countries ready to buy the Rafale without all these B.S.

I think there is some confusion here-

It would be wrong to equate India and Arabs in the same equation both are totally different case- India would not buy Rafale for doing parades, airshows and customary bombings ete- For such things EF2K was a far far better option- India wants to buy aircrafts for fighting war so It would want ToT and modifications along with offsets to support the plane in India without much help from France somewhat like Israel when It buys hardware from US and this demand is not unjustified since India and France have declared themselves as strategic partners- So please stop comparing this with carpet buy-

The other thing you must keep in mind is that the orders for rafale only came after some clarity was made on the Indian deal- It would be a big mistake to think of them separately- No country would have Its Air Force flying only 20-30 jets of one kind Its simply childish unless they are for customary or special purposes- those orders of 1-2 squadrons is an indication they want to field a proper fleet which will be possible only when India gets what It wants and a production line is opened here- which cannot happen unless costs are reasonable- I would give you the example of Russian Sukhoi and Its success with Su30MK- Had the Russian put the head down and refused customization, ToT etc in the name of costs- Sukhoi would not have sold as many Su30s- This is a make or break for Deal- get satisfied with 50-60 orders or get 300-400 orders- Both the seller and buyers understands this-

 

[MilSpec]

So indians taunts Pakistan on lack of funds on F-16 threads, but the hard cash they say they have is no where to find when Rafael is in consideration and asking for discount on discount.
its been a deacade they have jumping about the mother of all deals and look everything is still on the negotiation table.
On the hand Pakistan will be getting its delievery of F16, AH-1Z vipers and MI-35 in 2017

First off, Rafael is an Israeli Defence company, and Rafale is combat a/c of Dassault.
Next look up what India has added to it's arsenal in the fiscal year 2015, INS Kadmat ASW Corvette, INS Kochi Guided Missile Destroyer, 3 ISV Patrol Boats, 10 Mig29K's, 4 HAL Rudra, 18Mil MI17V-5's, 35 PC-7 Mk II in addition to 12-16 MKI's that India add's every year. So lets not get too excited.

 

[desimorty]

-Indians decreasing order,asking for full TOT,50% offsets + major modifications to the aircrafts and now says "we cannot afford it it's expensive".
-Negotiating the price as if we were selling carpets.

On the other hand we have countries ready to buy the Rafale without all these B.S.

Source: Rafale Slipstream: India not to Budge on Lowering Jets’ Price | Page 5

Ill just give you one line here and be done with it. Modi can talk to Putin, and get full cooperation from Russia. The relationship and strategic papers of Indo-Russian cooperation are termed "Exclusive" not "special" or just "strategic".
Russia plays ball for India, and vis versa. This deal MMRCA gone wrong in India and many more to come, is the result of Sarkozy's ego coming back to bit France. Don't mess with Putin. IMO Putin is right. Importance of the black sea fleet is greater than any sanctions the west can impose. The Caucasus and Georgia are Russia's inherent weakness and risk to Global instability. France should have done what it use to do. Try and be independent. don't be "England", ie Americas bitch.

 

[Khafee]

None of these will be produced in India.. UAEAF personnel are trained by US & Pak officers ... Even UAE mirages were overhauled by PAC/Pakistan..

For more ask a Emirati Pilot @Khafee

Thank You, but I'm not a pilot, but a land lubber I have worked in procurement close to a decade, that's why my knowledge of aircrafts.

Secondly, my gut feeling is that the GCC will be buying between 120 ~ 220 Rafale's and Dassault / Govt. of France knows this. They are not going to screw it up, and give it to the Brits or Yanks by building in India.

What ? We re-sold the Mistrals,and in 2015,we received orders worth to ~16Bn of €. Thousands of jobs will be created in the military industry.

Persons working for the defence industry is actually ~165.000 and is set to increase near 200.000 in ~2018 !

L’industrie de la défense devrait créer 40.000 emplois d’ici à 2018, Aéronautique - Défense

The Russians announced that no one will trust us or buy from us,we will loose billions and thousands of jobs,well this is just B.S.



In case India attacks or invade an ally or a friendly nation to the West. (And then sanctions are imposed on India,or something like that.)



@Khafee @Blue Marlin

-Indians decreasing order,asking for full TOT,50% offsets + major modifications to the aircrafts and now says "we cannot afford it it's expensive".
-Negotiating the price as if we were selling carpets.

On the other hand we have countries ready to buy the Rafale without all these B.S.

Actually IF the French had half a brain, they would pro-actively offer Saudi, Qatar, & UAE to buy 300+ jets, over 10 years, with local assembly & MRO.

At the same time they could tell India to take their order for 36 jets and................

 

[randomradio]

The Indian fiscal year ends the March 31.
-
The French ambassador expects Rafale negotiations with India to drag up to 4 more months. (Expect 1 more year,if not more.)

From an extremely reliable source. X posting CNL-PN-AA's post.

The date of signature was agreed two weeks ago . The price for the only 36 Rafales has already been set. The discussions about the price concern modifications asked by India and maintenance costs.

Actually IF the French had half a brain, they would pro-actively offer Saudi, Qatar, & UAE to buy 300+ jets, over 10 years, with local assembly & MRO.

At the same time they could tell India to take their order for 36 jets and................

The order to India is worth 200+, most likely 300+.

X posting Picdel's post.
Today an interview of Trappier, CEO of Dassault where he said there is just a little detail to conclude: the price. But he said that smiling and also he said that Dassault is preparing for the make in India a proposal for 90 Rafale (as first step)
36 Rafale à l'Inde : "Il faut régler un tout petit détail, le prix" selon le patron de Dassault - Economie - MYTF1News

 

[Khafee]

The order to India is worth 200+, most likely 300+.

X posting Picdel's post.
Today an interview of Trappier, CEO of Dassault where he said there is just a little detail to conclude: the price. But he said that smiling and also he said that Dassault is preparing for the make in India a proposal for 90 Rafale (as first step)
36 Rafale à l'Inde : "Il faut régler un tout petit détail, le prix" selon le patron de Dassault - Economie - MYTF1News

Yeah, Right!

 

[randomradio]

Yeah, Right!

The numbers already on MoU-

IAF: Minimum 180 Rafales. First order will be for 90.
IN: Minimum 54 Rafales

That's 234 Rafales minimum. Tranche orders will continue beyond that.

Trappier:

"l'Inde est un partenaire extraordinaire"

Hollande:

It will pave the way for an unprecedented industrial and technological cooperation, including ‘Make in India’, for the next 40 years.

This is a separate process from the competition for two additional lines of fighter aircraft.