Rafale in Egypt: the United States blocks

[The SC]

France is currently unable to deliver Scalp cruise missiles manufactured by MBDA to Egyptians because of an American component. (Credits: Dassault Aviation)


Negotiations for the sale of additional Rafale between France and Egypt are hampered by the United States. Washington refuses to export an American component aboard the Scalp cruise missile that Cairo wants to acquire.

It stuck seriously in negotiations between Paris and Cairo for the sale of additional Rafale (12 fighter jets) to the Egyptian Air Force, according to concordant sources. And this is not a funding issue as in the past. According to these sources, France is currently unable to deliver scalp cruise missiles manufactured by MBDA to Egyptians because of an American component. Contacted by La Tribune, Dassault Aviation and MBDA declined to comment.

Paris had given the green light to export the Scalp missile after its passage before the inter-ministerial commission for the study of exports of war materials (CIEEMG), but the United States blocked the sale. Washington follows the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). But this situation greatly irritates both the Egyptians, who absolutely want Scalp missiles, and Dassault Aviation, who does not want to miss a new Rafale sale.

Towards a new Franco-American arrangement?

If the supply of Rafale is not in danger, one explains to the Tribune, this operation is clearly slowed down in spite of the frequent comings and goings between Paris and Cairo of the Egyptian and French negotiators these last weeks. And all the pressure is on MBDA, which is in the sight of the Egyptian authorities, very up against the missile maker. So much so that Cairo wants the Scalp ... for free. What MBDA refuses. However, by the end of 2017, everything seemed to be in place for a signing between Cairo and Dassault Aviation at the beginning of this year at the time of a visit by Emmanuel Macron. but It missed.

Either MBDA changes this component, or France and the United States find an arrangement at very high level. At the invitation of Donald Trump, Emmanuel Macron will also visit the United States on 23 and 24 April. It should be remembered that François Hollande's visit to the United States in February 2014 had settled the sale of two spy satellites to the United Arab Emirates (UAE). The United States was refusing to export some of the "made in USA" components needed to manufacture these two satellites.

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprise...en-egypte-les-etats-unis-bloquent-768856.html

 

[BHarwana]

A question why is USA blocking the sale of missiles to Egypt? Egypt and USA has good terms.

Second option is Ra'ad missile from Pakistan. The Missile is well integrated with Mirage jets and weapons package for Mirage and Rafael are almost same. So Ra'ad can be easily integrated on Rafael.

 

[The SC]

Strange news..since MBDA (37.5% owned by Airbus Defense and Space, 37.1% by BAE Systems and 25% by Italian Leonardo) are responsible for the manufacture of this missile, which is jointly developed by France and the UK, where it is called SCALP EG in France and Storm Shadow in the United Kingdom and has nothing to do with the United States .

But, MBDA also has an American branch in the United States that is also responsible for the manufacturing of missiles and airborne smart munitions. The European company uses some US-manufactured components to save costs and reduce costs in some of its production and export systems, including SCALP-EG..

The European company can simply use the French components on the missiles rather than the American components, without any problem, just like with the French Air Force.

There is no connection between what was mentioned in the French newspaper about the missiles and the American components and between the additional Rafale contract, which will be signed sooner or later..

This is the policy pursued by France since the era of Charles de Gaulle, who launched the policy of the local manufacturing of arms, unlike other countries such as Britain, which relies for many of its weapons systems on American components, including its intercontinental ballistic missiles and its strategic missiles for its nuclear submarines are Fully American made (Intercontinental Trident missiles and Tomahawk cruise Missiles).

Egypt has already received 50 SCALP-EG mobile missiles from France under the 2015 Rafale contract:

https://imgur.com/XU2nNTt

A question why is USA blocking the sale of missiles to Egypt? Egypt and USA has good terms.

Second option is Ra'ad missile from Pakistan. The Missile is well integrated with Mirage jets and weapons package for Mirage and Rafael are almost same. So Ra'ad can be easily integrated on Rafael.

Maybe Egypt wants to integrate it on the F-16s also?

Ra'ad will certainly be a good option..

 

[Jinn Baba]

Probably because they want Egypt to buy American.

 

[BHarwana]

Strange news..since MBDA (37.5% owned by Airbus Defense and Space, 37.1% by BAE Systems and 25% by Italian Leonardo) are responsible for the manufacture of this missile, which is jointly developed by France and the UK, where it is called SCALP EG in France and Storm Shadow in the United Kingdom and has nothing to do with the United States .

But, MBDA also has an American branch in the United States that is also responsible for the manufacturing of missiles and airborne smart munitions. The European company uses some US-manufactured components to save costs and reduce costs in some of its production and export systems, including SCALP-EG..

The European company can simply use the French components on the missiles rather than the American components, without any problem, just like with the French Air Force.

There is no connection between what was mentioned in the French newspaper about the missiles and the American components and between the additional Rafale contract, which will be signed sooner or later..

This is the policy pursued by France since the era of Charles de Gaulle, who launched the policy of the local manufacturing of arms, unlike other countries such as Britain, which relies for many of its weapons systems on American components, including its intercontinental ballistic missiles and its strategic missiles for its nuclear submarines are Fully American made (Intercontinental Trident missiles and Tomahawk cruise Missiles).

Egypt has already received 50 SCALP-EG mobile missiles from France under the 2015 Rafale contract:

https://imgur.com/XU2nNTt


Maybe Egypt wants to integrate it on the F-16s also?

Ra'ad will certainly be a good option..

I think the problem is range then. 560 km. Lo Lo profile of missile makes Israeli air defence vulnerable. the 560 range make it good weapon to take out Israeli anti-air systems. the Next best option for Egypt is Ra'ad then.

 

[The SC]

I think the problem is range then. 560 km. Lo Lo profile of missile makes Israeli air defence vulnerable. the 560 range make it good weapon to take out Israeli anti-air systems. the Next best option for Egypt is Ra'ad then.

But then.. Egypt already got 50 Scalp missiles with the first batch of Rafales.. it can get more if it wants just European components..that is what pushed me to think about integration with both Rafale (already done) and the F-16s (to be done!)..

Ra'ad is always a very good option.. the problem might surface with integration again ..will France and the US allow Egypt to integrate it on their fighters!?.. I think it is easier to integrate Scalp.. at least on the French platform.. which makes it easier again to get US components to integrate it on the F-16s.. otherwise Egypt might have gone for Ra'ad a while ago..

 

[BHarwana]

But then.. Egypt already got 50 Scalp missiles with the first batch of Rafales.. it can get more if it wants just European components..that is what pushed me to think about integration with both Rafale (already done) and the F-16s (to be done!)..

Ra'ad is always a very good option.. the problem might surface with integration again ..will France and the US allow Egypt to integrate it on their fighters!?.. I think it is easier to integrate Scalp.. at least on the French platform.. which makes it easier again to get US components to integrate it on the F-16s.. otherwise Egypt might have gone for Ra'ad a while ago..

I cannot find Scalp integrated with F-16 so I think that is not the problem. The only left issue is to check the range of already delivered Scalp missile.

 

[The SC]

I cannot find Scalp integrated with F-16 so I think that is not the problem. The only left issue is to check the range of already delivered Scalp missile.

Egypt won't ask for a missile range that does violate the MTCR.. it is not logical.. mostly from Western countries.. so the issue must be something else.. if it is not integration then it something else we should know about soon..

 

[HannibalBarca]

The issue...is mostly a revenge move to France...

 

[Gufi]

Probably because they want Egypt to buy American.

there is a policy to keep Israel technologically superior to its neighbours. Egypt should protest official to the US and ask for a reason which if not given, some Russian gear should be purchased.

 

[The SC]

there is a policy to keep Israel technologically superior to its neighbours. Egypt should protest official to the US and ask for a reason which if not given, some Russian gear should be purchased.

Egypt is already getting the best gear from Russia.. but it wants ScalpNG.. it is a problem with MBDA branch in the US..at the end Egypt will get it,,because the same components' counterparts are made in Europe too.. specifically in France..the only eason to go for the US components is because they are cheaper..

 

[Gomig-21]

Probably because they want Egypt to buy American.

Quite the opposite, my friend, sadly. It's because the Americans don't want Egypt to have these lethal weapons at the behest of our neighbor, who's been more belligerent than we've ever been through the history. They've invaded and occupied our land twice! Then we fought a war to take back a tiny portion of our own land! At the same time we've abided by every single aspect of the peace treaty to date yet our huge fleet of F-16s is neutered without the AIM-120 and other few capabilities and when we finally get into the BVR world 10 years after everyone else has already been in it with French and Russian BVR missiles and aircraft, there still has to be an issue brought up to deny weapons sales. Unbelievable.

Frankly, this is getting absurdly ridiculous by now. I have no idea what Egypt has to do before it's not stigmatized anymore. One thing it should do is put up a HUGE STINK about all this and not to France and Dassault, but specifically to the US. This crap needs to end.

And BTW, @The SC , the 50 SCALPS were on order but haven't been delivered yet. I think we can safely say the Meteor will also be denied at this point.

It's time to make a serious and drastic change in policy because this crap has to end. Egypt's 3rd party infractions are nothing to warrant any of this behavior and if it's a political thing because of Sisi, then Sisi should simply pull back the deal for the additional 12 Rafales and go to Russia immediately. This will put pressure on France to whip the US into shape.

@Frogman - so much for the idea that going for Russian equipment isn't a way around restrictions. It's exactly that.

 

[Frogman]

so much for the idea that going for Russian equipment isn't a way around restrictions. It's exactly that.

Not exactly. They're blocking MBDA USA from exporting the part. They make it there because it is cheaper to work share. Doesn't mean MBDA can't make it elsewhere. So this is likely to push negotiations back a bit but not block them. That's as far as I understand it.

 

[CriticalThought]

LOLz. The unreliability of Western arms. Thanks to Allah Almighty we freed ourselves from their slavery.

 

[Trango Towers]

One thing is for sure......America is killing it's defence industry slowly but surely. Everyone is noticing that anything with American component ...do not buy.