Rafale in Egypt: the United States blocks

[Gomig-21]

Really you are insulting Turkey and her innovations...

SOM is a very good missile...

Stop it...there's no insulting of anyone or anything. Where was the insult in this statement?

No thanks. There's nothing coming from anywhere else to be integrated in one of the best platforms currently flying and have to deal with all that aggravation. It has to be all part of the same manufacturer to get the most and best out of it.

The aggravation has to do with the integration of a different weapon system that the platform was designed to use and already has all the setup for. Plus there are many other factors to consider when one purchases a platform such as the Rafale. The original manufacturer has very stringent conditions as to changing any of the settings or integrating any other different weapons to it because first they have to approve it (chances of the French & Dassault doing that...0%) then they have to get into the source codes and reprogram the software and maybe even change a slew of hardware etc. There are so many complications to doing something like that that it's not worth it. That was the reference. Let's not make something out of nothing.

And if a war breaks out between Israel and Egypt, Egypt will be put under sanctions while weapons will flow unabated to Israel. Not only USA provide weapons to Israel, but also Europe including France.

The way forward for Egypt and all Muslim countries is self reliance. Build your own weapons.

I agree with regard to building one's own weapons. Egypt has definitely lagged way too far behind in that respect.

I don't think there is a worry, at all, as a matter of fact, with a war breaking out Israel. There are so many standing conditions to the peace treaty that in order for war to break out, a major violation of those many stringent conditions would need to happen and the likelihood of that happening is slim to none. War between the 2 has always been an issue of their existence (which Egypt doesn't have any wishes to threaten and never will) and their reaction to that along with the need to expand their territory which made Sinai a very juicy target and that likelihood of happening in this day and age is also slim to one. But because of that slim chance, Egypt has started to diversify its weapons supplies and we'll most likely be seeing a lot more coming from non-western aligned sources in the years to come.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Most modern day conflicts have colonial roots .. how can you forget that?



99% of those dictators need US and EU to legitimise their rule.

Even in Pakistan... all military rulers were best buds with US..
Its easy to deal with a dictator than a democratic set up.


Apart from dictatorships , those countries are embroiled by conflicts created by colonial rule.



KSA was never colonised and has quarter of world oil reserves (its surviving solely due to its oil wealth and off course the billions of dollars it gets through pilgrims)..

SA is not a “developed” country rather it has huge issues...

Qatar is a wealthy city state... much like kuwait...
Ireland has EU (and wasnt a colony).

Israel is supported by US , gets billions upon billions of dollars in AID not only from US, but EU...

Turkey again was never colonised (it was a super power of in the past century)

Korea again was never colonised and was helped massively by US and allies..

UAE wasnt colonised either.. it was under british mandate for a short period of time and with its small population and huge reserves its “winning”.



Iraq was a rather wealthy state .. but again Saddam himself was supported by none other than US and EU (Ironically France supplied chemical weapons it used against Iran and Kurds)... most of his air fleet again was french.. he was americas best friend once upon a time..

Libya was again a wealthy state — despite qaddafi (soviet support).

Iran is still doing great despite sanctions..

—-

Its time you own up your nations fukups dude...
UK itself was built upon the stolen wealth of colonies.. east india company.. came as merchants and ended up beheading the Sons of King Bahadur Shah Zafar (who died imprisoned in Burma)... looted wealth,levied heavy taxes on farmers, even stole bloody marble tiles from shrines and mosques.. heck even bricks were ripped off and used on railway tracks...

Kashmir conflict again is an example ... simmering since 47... embroiling two countries into wars, arms races whatnot..

YES YES, the U.S/U.K/West is to blame for all your ills, you people bare no responsibility whatsoever. Already heard that music so many times. Nothing new there.

Kashmir conflict again is an example ... simmering since 47... embroiling two countries into wars, arms races whatnot..

Well, I'm sure we are not forcing you to hang onto Kashmir. Why cant you people just let Kashmir go then? Give them their independence or just hand it to the other side for peace and stability to reign then. I'm sure we won't object to that. Never mind, I know you people cant let it go, due to greed as well(we humans are very greedy). So there goes your Kashmir issue.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

YES YES, the U.S/U.K/West is to blame for all your ills, you people bare no responsibility whatsoever. Already heard that music so many times. Nothing new there.

Im talkin about the past... today.. UK is nothing but a US lackey... playing second fiddle.

Well, I'm sure we are not forcing you to hang onto Kashmir. Why cant you people just let Kashmir go then? Give them their independence or just hand it to the other side for peace and stability to reign then. I'm sure we won't object to that. Never mind, I know you people cant let it go, due to greed as well(we humans are very greedy). So there goes your Kashmir issue.

Because they is an on going independence movement since decades? Because over a 150K people have died since 80s? Because entire villages have been gang raped and women murdered?
People thousands of kashmiris have become blind or limbless in the past 2 years alone?
Because there is a UN resolution still pending demanding a plebiscite in Kashmir?
Pakistan however does agree on the UN resolution which was signed and moved by none other than india?

 

[The SC]

There's no LB in Egypt my bro. But that's ok because the Alligators and the Katrans will eventually have something similar and will be in greater numbers.

Didn't this one go through?
http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/egypt-ah-64d-apache-longbow-helicopters

http://www.deagel.com/news/Boeing-t...bow-Flight-Simulator-to-Egypt_n000003505.aspx


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]After delivery was suspended for many months, the Egyptian Air Force has finally received ten Boeing Apache attack helicopters from the United States, reported today Africa-focused website defenceWeb. On November 24 the Egyptian Air Force (EAF) released a photo showing the helicopters, covered in white protective plastic, after being delivered to an Egyptian port.
...

The Egyptian Air Force ordered 12 Apaches in 2009 to augment the 35 that have been in service since 2003 with the Egyptian Air Force’s 550 Attack Helicopter Regiment. The status of the remaining two Apaches is not clear...

http://www.airrecognition.com/index...ived-ten-ah-64-apache-attack-helicopters.html
On this link the LB is not mentioned (just Apache)..although it is the same order of 2009!

---------------------------------------------
AH-64D



The AH-64D Apache Longbow is equipped with a glass cockpit and advanced sensors, the most noticeable of which being the AN/APG-78 Longbow millimeter-wave fire-control radar (FCR) target acquisition system and the Radar Frequency Interferometer (RFI), housed in a dome located above the main rotor.[291][292] The radome's raised position enables target detection while the helicopter is behind obstacles (e.g. terrain, trees or buildings). The AN/APG-78 is capable of simultaneously tracking up to 128 targets and engaging up to 16 at once, an attack can be initiated within 30 seconds.[293][294] A radio modem integrated with the sensor suite allows data to be shared with ground units and other Apaches; allowing them to fire on targets detected by a single helicopter.[295]
The aircraft is powered by a pair of uprated T700-GE-701C engines. The forward fuselage was expanded to accommodate new systems to improve survivability, navigation, and 'tactical internet' communications capabilities. In February 2003, the first Block II Apache was delivered to the U.S. Army, featuring digital communications upgrades. The Japanese Apache AH-64DJP variant is based on the AH-64D;[144] it can be equipped with the AIM-92 Stinger air-to-air missiles for self-defense.[296][297]


Operators

Egypt

• Egyptian Air Force (AH-64D)[321]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache#Export_Apaches

 

[Gomig-21]

Didn't this one go through?

Yeah the deal for the additional 12 Apaches went through but with the AN/APR-39B(V)2 Radar detecting sets and not the AN/APRD9V)2 Longbow radar. The choppers are equipped to have the LB installed in them but they didn't include them with the order.

 

[SipahSalar]

Didn't this one go through?
http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/egypt-ah-64d-apache-longbow-helicopters

http://www.deagel.com/news/Boeing-t...bow-Flight-Simulator-to-Egypt_n000003505.aspx


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]After delivery was suspended for many months, the Egyptian Air Force has finally received ten Boeing Apache attack helicopters from the United States, reported today Africa-focused website defenceWeb. On November 24 the Egyptian Air Force (EAF) released a photo showing the helicopters, covered in white protective plastic, after being delivered to an Egyptian port.
...

The Egyptian Air Force ordered 12 Apaches in 2009 to augment the 35 that have been in service since 2003 with the Egyptian Air Force’s 550 Attack Helicopter Regiment. The status of the remaining two Apaches is not clear...

http://www.airrecognition.com/index...ived-ten-ah-64-apache-attack-helicopters.html
On this link the LB is not mentioned (just Apache)..although it is the same order of 2009!

---------------------------------------------
AH-64D



The AH-64D Apache Longbow is equipped with a glass cockpit and advanced sensors, the most noticeable of which being the AN/APG-78 Longbow millimeter-wave fire-control radar (FCR) target acquisition system and the Radar Frequency Interferometer (RFI), housed in a dome located above the main rotor.[291][292] The radome's raised position enables target detection while the helicopter is behind obstacles (e.g. terrain, trees or buildings). The AN/APG-78 is capable of simultaneously tracking up to 128 targets and engaging up to 16 at once, an attack can be initiated within 30 seconds.[293][294] A radio modem integrated with the sensor suite allows data to be shared with ground units and other Apaches; allowing them to fire on targets detected by a single helicopter.[295]
The aircraft is powered by a pair of uprated T700-GE-701C engines. The forward fuselage was expanded to accommodate new systems to improve survivability, navigation, and 'tactical internet' communications capabilities. In February 2003, the first Block II Apache was delivered to the U.S. Army, featuring digital communications upgrades. The Japanese Apache AH-64DJP variant is based on the AH-64D;[144] it can be equipped with the AIM-92 Stinger air-to-air missiles for self-defense.[296][297]


Operators

Egypt

• Egyptian Air Force (AH-64D)[321]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache#Export_Apaches

Interesting, are the Apaches operated by the Egyptian Air Force and not the Egyptian Army Aviation?

 

[Gomig-21]

Interesting, are the Apaches operated by the Egyptian Air Force and not the Egyptian Army Aviation?

They're operated by the Egyptian Air Force but you bring up an excellent point, they should be operated by a dedicated army aviation branch since their purpose is in support of ground attack missions that mostly involve the army on the ground. The Egyptian military is essentially composed of 3 branches, the Air Force, the Navy and the Air Defense in addition to the Army. The Air Force takes on all airborne duties and functions but for the sake of better management all around, they should create a new army aviation branch like you mentioned, especially with the new Ka-52 Alligators coming. And eventually, if they equip the 2 LHDs with Katrans, those would be operated by a winged regiment of the navy.

How does Pakistan operate its gunships like the Mi-35s and the new AH-Z1s? Does it have a dedicated army aviation branch?

 

[TheCamelGuy]

Local production is the best solution

 

[SipahSalar]

How does Pakistan operate its gunships like the Mi-35s and the new AH-Z1s? Does it have a dedicated army aviation branch?

Army Aviation gained autonomy from the Air Force in 1958. It works under the direct command of the Pakistan Army and supports their operations with attack helicopters like Cobras, and transporters like Mi-17 and Bell Hueys. Also performs scouting roles.

It also has its own separate school of training, Army Aviation School at Gujranwala. https://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContent.aspx?pId=274

You can read about the history of Army Aviation here: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/pakistan/aviation-corps.htm

Pakistan Navy has its own branch for aircraft as well, called Navy Air Arm, created in 1975. It operates several fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft like the P3C Orion for ASW, Sea Kings, Z-9's that operate from F-22p frigates and many more. Although the PAF is still operating the JF-17's in maritime roles for the Navy. I hope that changes soon and the Navy Air Arms starts operating Fighter Aircraft independently. That way they can formulate their own doctrine more effectively.

https://www.paknavy.gov.pk/air_arm.html

Yeah, Egypt needs to create aviation branches for the Navy and Army especially after the induction of the LHDs.

 

[Gomig-21]

It also has its own separate school of training, Army Aviation School at Gujranwala. https://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContent.aspx?pId=274

Excellent. Definitely the way to go. I'm almost positive that the Apaches operate under the Air Force and not the Army since they even have the EAF written in black on the tail spine.

القوات الجويه المصريه

But, in order to be sure, I will defer to @Frogman who has a better grasp as to the specific organization of the forces, particularly the Army. They should also group the Mi-8/17 maybe even some of the Chinooks as part of this army aviation corp.

Pakistan Navy has its own branch for aircraft as well, called Navy Air Arm, created in 1975. It operates several fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft like the P3C Orion for ASW, Sea Kings, Z-9's that operate from F-22p frigates and many more.

Pretty much the same setup with the Egyptian navy and the maritime helos they use off of current frigates such as the Sea King Commando (they operate a few dedicated EW platforms) and the Seasprite ASW.

And Chinooks which they use for both, Army/EAF and navy roles. We have also seen a certain portion of the Gazelles perform coastal patrol as part of the Coast Guard which is of course a branch of the Navy. It would only make sense that the eventual Katrans end up as part of that complete, naval structure as well.

Although the PAF is still operating the JF-17's in maritime roles for the Navy. I hope that changes soon and the Navy Air Arms starts operating Fighter Aircraft independently. That way they can formulate their own doctrine more effectively.

Completely agree, and we have the same situation as well. Prior to the MiG-35 acquisition, maritime fighter role was designated to a portion of the F-16 fleet (which is obviously EAF) and F-7s. We're only assuming that since the MiG-35 appears to be replacing the F-7s and MiG-21s, it will assume maritime role, especially with the camo they chose for it in all the single seaters we've seen so far.

The 2-seaters have only been 2 that we've seen but we know they've ordered 4 or 6 (we're not sure of the exact deal yet) but those are painted in a sand camo scheme. So let's hope they're thinking along the lines of what you mentioned and a new formation armed corps units. But it is strange that the camo pattern is sand for only a handful of the 50 fighters on order which appear to be more like trainers than anything else and so far, all the other single seaters are in that naval camo. Typical Egyptian weirdness that keeps us guessing.

 

[Frogman]

But, in order to be sure, I will defer to @Frogman who has a better grasp as to the specific organization of the forces, particularly the Army. They should also group the Mi-8/17 maybe even some of the Chinooks as part of this army aviation corp.

All fixed wing and rotary assets are operated by the Air Force. They are often "loaned" out to other branches but the personnel working on and with the aircraft are all Air Force too.