Rafale in Egypt: the United States blocks

[Gomig-21]

Not exactly. They're blocking MBDA USA from exporting the part. They make it there because it is cheaper to work share. Doesn't mean MBDA can't make it elsewhere. So this is likely to push negotiations back a bit but not block them. That's as far as I understand it.

Where has it been said that it's only a monetary issue?

 

[Ceylal]

Probably because they want Egypt to buy American.

No...Didn’T get the green light from Natanyahu..that’s the way it works..

 

[Fledgingwings]

Maybe USA wants egypt to buy its F16s instead.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Where has it been said that it's only a monetary issue?

This is not a monetary issue.
And it's not only targeting Egypt...but mostly a move against France too.

 

[SipahSalar]

This is very problematic for Egypt.

The F-16's don't have AMRAAMs. The Apaches don't have longbow radar. And now the Rafale's wont have Storm Shadow.

It seems like Egypt is paying the same price and spending billions just as others for these weapons but is not getting the best deal.

A simple threat to withdraw from the peace treaty would knock some sense into the Americans.

 

[The SC]

This is very problematic for Egypt.

The F-16's don't have AMRAAMs. The Apaches don't have longbow radar. And now the Rafale's wont have Storm Shadow.

It seems like Egypt is paying the same price and spending billions just as others for these weapons but is not getting the best deal.

A simple threat to withdraw from the peace treaty would knock some sense into the Americans.

Egypt got the long bow but after quite some time..

Where has it been said that it's only a monetary issue?

It is not a real financial issue..but if one reads between the lines.. it might be some kind of a financial issue with MBDA not the French gov.. (maybe some ministry of it who have opposed the new deal till they were forced to accept it..is pulling the strings from behind the scene to complicate it..) ; The parts made in the US are apparently cheaper than the same parts made in France.. so if the contract stipulates a particular price.. MBDA will make the parts in the US according to that price..I think MBDA was asking to up the price if it was to make these parts in France..like the ones in the French airforce..That is why Egypt went as far as asking for the missiles for free.. because it will be a breach of the original contract..But the question remains about the US blocking the parts.. it makes no sense.. because the same parts are also being made in France!!!? Or are they?

Read the OP again..there are many subtleties in it.. but in general it does not make sense..
As for the first order of the Scalp there is a picture in post #3 of an "Egyptian" Rafale carrying it.. so some might have been already delivered..

in any case there is always the Russian equivalent X59MK2 (KH-59M)

 

[hussain0216]

A few years ago there were discussions with Egypt about possible JF17 sale or even production they obviously didn't proceed after some initial interest

This is not a pitch of the JF17S as such but more a statement that this kind of thing will continue for Egypt and other arab states, you will have neutered armed forces
More so none of the arabs make significant weapon systems (emphasis on significant)

This is NO way to plan for the future

At the time it made sense to me that for a country like Egypt or some of the other arab states that the JF17S would have been a perfect jet to buy in large numbers and then save money to buy a "spear tip" jet
Negotiate with Pakistan/China for rights to produce and then pick the array of Chinese or Pakistani weapons available with the added bonus that any 3rd party or even arab developed weapon, missile etc would be integrated with the platform




The arabs seem to be intent on buying weapons from vendors that would immediately cease weapons supply in favour of israel or at the behest of the USA

Seems crazy if not outright stupid to me

 

[Hyperion]

True that. Mostly Egyptian fleet seems to have the "Boo" and not the "Baam"..... basically good for hollowness or just feel good factor to them. Ah well.

This is very problematic for Egypt.

The F-16's don't have AMRAAMs. The Apaches don't have longbow radar. And now the Rafale's wont have Storm Shadow.

It seems like Egypt is paying the same price and spending billions just as others for these weapons but is not getting the best deal.

A simple threat to withdraw from the peace treaty would knock some sense into the Americans.

 

[The SC]

Facts:

The Scalp missile deal was in 2015 with the deal of Mica, Hummer and Rafale itself, and now we are in 2018.. (3) years without any problem ... Hence the talk is about the second deal, since the first deal was from the French stock ready for delivery already, just like the French RAFALE Which was taken by Egypt from the French air force immediately before the manufacture of the new Rafales..

User list of the Scalp / Storm Shadow:

Egypt has already received 50 SCALP-EG missiles from France under the 2015 Rafale contract

* This is a French Rafale though.. but the seal on the Photo is of the Egyptian air force..

 

[KediKesenFare3]

The issue...is mostly a revenge move to France...

Revenge for what?

 

[The SC]

A few years ago there were discussions with Egypt about possible JF17 sale or even production they obviously didn't proceed after some initial interest

This is not a pitch of the JF17S as such but more a statement that this kind of thing will continue for Egypt and other arab states, you will have neutered armed forces
More so none of the arabs make significant weapon systems (emphasis on significant)

This is NO way to plan for the future

At the time it made sense to me that for a country like Egypt or some of the other arab states that the JF17S would have been a perfect jet to buy in large numbers and then save money to buy a "spear tip" jet
Negotiate with Pakistan/China for rights to produce and then pick the array of Chinese or Pakistani weapons available with the added bonus that any 3rd party or even arab developed weapon, missile etc would be integrated with the platform




The arabs seem to be intent on buying weapons from vendors that would immediately cease weapons supply in favour of israel or at the behest of the USA

Seems crazy if not outright stupid to me

The studies and discussions/offers are still being studied..Maybe waiting for the platform to mature enough.. and studying what Western components (if any!) can be added without any problems.. also at the mean time.. Egypt ..(and not only Egypt in the Arab world..)..is getting the best it can get..

 

[HannibalBarca]

Revenge for what?

I don't know really, few analyst spoke about that possibility.
Could the UN vote... or other geopolitical point... That France wasn't aligned with Trump, in the past...etc... many things could be in.
But it's not really an Egyptian problem... it' snot like they didn't get few dozens already...

 

[Basel]

A question why is USA blocking the sale of missiles to Egypt? Egypt and USA has good terms.

Second option is Ra'ad missile from Pakistan. The Missile is well integrated with Mirage jets and weapons package for Mirage and Rafael are almost same. So Ra'ad can be easily integrated on Rafael.

Ra'ad is not classified as PGM it's strategic platform, they could go for SOM from Turkey.

 

[Gomig-21]

This is not a monetary issue.

That's what I'm saying. The whole theory about that one "cheaper part(s)" that the US supplies is an insult to one's intelligence. I think it's pretty clear what is going on. If we remember the Block-52s being blocked? It's right along those lines except this time it's going through a 3rd party.

Egypt got the long bow but after quite some time..

There's no LB in Egypt my bro. But that's ok because the Alligators and the Katrans will eventually have something similar and will be in greater numbers.

they could go for SOM from Turkey.

No thanks. There's nothing coming from anywhere else to be integrated in one of the best platforms currently flying and have to deal with all that aggravation. It has to be all part of the same manufacturer to get the most and best out of it.

 

[Ceylal]

Revenge for what?

It is not revenge..The US has never given Egypt any system or part that may constitute a threat to Israel...To make Egyptians PDF to understand that, is another matter...
And I’ll bet anything the world that, if a war is to be between Israel and Egypt, those Rafales will be rendered useless, like the Emiratis found out one day when they were on there way to bomb Lybia..with their F16..That is , also the reason, the Egyptians went to France..France now is a lot more pro Israel than it was...a lot more than the US.