Questions regarding PAF modernization

[Rocky rock]

an f-15 with better radar, better autonomy and better weapons than an F-16, even though the Pakistani doctrine and its defensive will moin expensive one f-15 and 3 or 4 F16.

you'll have a better efficiency to defend the country. masi if you want my opinion, pakistan should the opportunity to purchase the SU-35. it is higher than the F-15, and permetra a better defense, long range, range, intercept, and most of its sovereignty over.

well thanks for your opinion/suggestion. But Pakistan don't have any interest now to buy any kind of other 4/4++ Gen of fighter Aircrafts due to limited budget and because now they are considering to modernize their own indigenous JFT program to get independent and to fill out the gap of 4/4+ gen aircrafts in their fleet and to replace other ageing mirages and F7's...so Thunders will fill that gap for now. other than that they could buy more F-16 old or new block 50/52 one or two squadron which depends on time & money we got...! hope for the best..

As we know every country is now moving towards 5th gen crafts so that's why we have abandoned our plan to buy any other 4/4++ gen aircraft and more likely to consider on 5th gen aircraft which could be FC-31 and jf-17 thunder block 3/4 Stealth version..!

 

[Manticore]

jf-17 thunder block 3/4 Stealth version..!

There will be no stealth versions of jf17.

 

[Tomyris]

the friend, if I can give you good advice I would say that we must develop a local programe and the JF-17 and good, but as I told my fellow Iranian, it is a local programe but if he can not defend his country is useless, you need a local joint programe achetré and advanced technology, its permetra to move forward and to have a strong army to protect the country.the 4 ++ generation will still have beautiful years ahead. everyone will not have the G5 fighter.su-27/30 is not a representation of hunter uses the American F-16 for the bomabrdement, and lost all tests for the Indian MMRCA and the American want to replace it with the F-35, and you want to do with our main hunter DA?Indian MKI will upgrade with AESA radar and Brahmos missile, the stealth and pakfa will there be a new AESA radar and missile.the F-16 will soon exceed a hunter.we must think of the future. the combined generation 5 has a heavy fighter generation 4 ++ gives you a powerful aerial force.have you planned to modernize your F-16 AESA radar with? you ask derneir version of the AIM-120 missile? the American will never give you the best and turn to Russia and China, and continue to develop local programe.

 

[AFlover]

well thanks for your opinion/suggestion. But Pakistan don't have any interest now to buy any kind of other 4/4++ Gen of fighter Aircrafts due to limited budget and because now they are considering to modernize their own indigenous JFT program to get independent and to fill out the gap of 4/4+ gen aircrafts in their fleet and to replace other ageing mirages and F7's...so Thunders will fill that gap for now. other than that they could buy more F-16 old or new block 50/52 one or two squadron which depends on time & money we got...! hope for the best..

As we know every country is now moving towards 5th gen crafts so that's why we have abandoned our plan to buy any other 4/4++ gen aircraft and more likely to consider on 5th gen aircraft which could be FC-31 and jf-17 thunder block 3/4 Stealth version..!

Well I would have some questions here
If PAF is directly moving on to j-31 then why there r discussions to procure more of f16s?
Secondly some one was highlighting f16 being over to su31s, India has all built aircraft from all over the world on their table then why they chose only su30s and even they are adding more, despite its being a large ac with higher rcs it does have higher speed Mac 2.5+,aesa radar, more hp, how can we counter 250+ su30s alone with some odd 70+ f16s.
Let's say if India attack with some three squardons of their mixed of su30 & migs at three different locations in Karachi Lahore & sargodha, along with the 4th squarden to penetrate deep into pak on major key installations during the engagement of the three squarden. How will PAF defend this massive assualt with their f16 and jf17? How many of ours will be able to deny this assault? I know su30 have some 11 hps and all with bvrs. Would not PAF loose majority of its planes that r in the air and if Indian aircrafts some how manage to reach the bases do u think we would have enogh left for counter attack?

 

[Tomyris]

Well I would have some questions here
If PAF is directly moving on to j-31 then why there r discussions to procure more of f16s?
Secondly some one was highlighting f16 being over to su31s, India has all built aircraft from all over the world on their table then why they chose only su30s and even they are adding more, despite its being a large ac with higher rcs it does have higher speed Mac 2.5+,aesa radar, more hp, how can we counter 250+ su30s alone with some odd 70+ f16s.
Let's say if India attack with some three squardons of their mixed of su30 & migs at three different locations in Karachi Lahore & sargodha, along with the 4th squarden to penetrate deep into pak on major key installations during the engagement of the three squarden. How will PAF defend this massive assualt with their f16 and jf17? How many of ours will be able to deny this assault? I know su30 have some 11 hps and all with bvrs. Would not PAF loose majority of its planes that r in the air and if Indian aircrafts some how manage to reach the bases do u think we would have enogh left for counter attack?

exact

 

[Plotinium]

Well I would have some questions here
If PAF is directly moving on to j-31 then why there r discussions to procure more of f16s?
Secondly some one was highlighting f16 being over to su31s, India has all built aircraft from all over the world on their table then why they chose only su30s and even they are adding more, despite its being a large ac with higher rcs it does have higher speed Mac 2.5+,aesa radar, more hp, how can we counter 250+ su30s alone with some odd 70+ f16s.
Let's say if India attack with some three squardons of their mixed of su30 & migs at three different locations in Karachi Lahore & sargodha, along with the 4th squarden to penetrate deep into pak on major key installations during the engagement of the three squarden. How will PAF defend this massive assualt with their f16 and jf17? How many of ours will be able to deny this assault? I know su30 have some 11 hps and all with bvrs. Would not PAF loose majority of its planes that r in the air and if Indian aircrafts some how manage to reach the bases do u think we would have enogh left for counter attack?

Then we will nuke them.

 

[AFlover]

Then we will nuke them.

That's not so easy either even for that we must have a strong man like Raheel shareef and a similar leader in govt is required, that I don't see in next 30years in Pakistan.

 

[Rocky rock]

There will be no stealth versions of jf17.

Yes there will be.. but not stealthy like other 5G fighter's like Raptor or F35.. but they willing to use some stealthy features by using some composite material and stealthy paint job for low "Rcs" that would be helpful in ground base operations...

 

[OTTOMAN]

There will be no stealth versions of jf17.

Its well known that Asif Ali Zardari rolled back many defence related programs and JF-17 was one of those!
Actually, this defence roll back philosophy was first implemented by his dead wife, in 90´s.

 

[Plotinium]

That's not so easy either even for that we must have a strong man like Raheel shareef and a similar leader in govt is required, that I don't see in next 30years in Pakistan.

Yes, there are many ifs in the scenario but if they are to attack with 4 squadrons, we could also use our anti aircraft guns (advantage of defending) not only our f16.

 

[Rocky rock]

Well I would have some questions here
If PAF is directly moving on to j-31 then why there r discussions to procure more of f16s?
Secondly some one was highlighting f16 being over to su31s, India has all built aircraft from all over the world on their table then why they chose only su30s and even they are adding more, despite its being a large ac with higher rcs it does have higher speed Mac 2.5+,aesa radar, more hp, how can we counter 250+ su30s alone with some odd 70+ f16s.
Let's say if India attack with some three squardons of their mixed of su30 & migs at three different locations in Karachi Lahore & sargodha, along with the 4th squarden to penetrate deep into pak on major key installations during the engagement of the three squarden. How will PAF defend this massive assualt with their f16 and jf17? How many of ours will be able to deny this assault? I know su30 have some 11 hps and all with bvrs. Would not PAF loose majority of its planes that r in the air and if Indian aircrafts some how manage to reach the bases do u think we would have enogh left for counter attack?

Well good question..! Let me just tell you that here we are talking about buying squadron or two of block 50/52 to fill up the gap of our 4+ gen fighter.. and they also trying to get some used f-16 from different brother countries to which they would upgrade to same standard.

Because we are good with f-16s and we don't need any new technicians or spare parts or any other facility to keep them fly..that's the reason pakistan don't like to go for any new platform. The same story is with india here they play well with "Sukhois" as we are with F16 the reason they prefer to buy more Sukhois.rather than mig-35 or anyother aircraft. Coz they already got good experience with that and maintainence facility n all that.

And the thing u've said how we'll counter Sukhois and mig's. Well F-16 with BVR missiles and Saab 2000 we can easily counter Sukhois due to their larger body n higher Rcs it woyld would be easy to counter them in case of dog fight F-16 is their Dad.coz it's more maneuverable and our pilots are very well trained for that. On other side we have jf-17 which is also BVR capable with support of ZDK-03 they would be enough to counter mig's and mirages..and if they get enter into our territory we have got good Air defence now n trying to make it better day by day. So it's not that easy to attack if that were so they could have already implemented the "Cold start doctrine" which they failed to do because of our strategies...!

 

[AFlover]

Yes, there are many ifs in the scenario but if they are to attack with 4 squadrons, we could also use our anti aircraft guns (advantage of defending) not only our f16.

Sir anti aircraft guns will contribute to just <10% in this senario but yes SAMs will work somehow to some extent but again this is not a situation which PAF can handle very easily without any real outstanding system that can out class adversary in numbers or a least in quality

Well good question..! Let me just tell you that here we are talking about buying squadron or two of block 50/52 to fill up the gap of our 4+ gen fighter.. and they also trying to get some used f-16 from different brother countries to which they would upgrade to same standard.

Because we are good with f-16s and we don't need any new technicians or spare parts or any other facility to keep them fly..that's the reason pakistan don't like to go for any new platform. The same story is with india here they play well with "Sukhois" as we are with F16 the reason they prefer to buy more Sukhois.rather than mig-35 or anyother aircraft. Coz they already got good experience with that and maintainence facility n all that.

And the thing u've said how we'll counter Sukhois and mig's. Well F-16 with BVR missiles and Saab 2000 we can easily counter Sukhois due to their larger body n higher Rcs it woyld would be easy to counter them in case of dog fight F-16 is their Dad.coz it's more maneuverable and our pilots are very well trained for that. On other side we have jf-17 which is also BVR capable with support of ZDK-03 they would be enough to counter mig's and mirages..and if they get enter into our territory we have got good Air defence now n trying to make it better day by day. So it's not that easy to attack if that were so they could have already implemented the "Cold start doctrine" which they failed to do because of our strategies...!

Thanks Bhai for the useful info but does not all that u explained Indian already know, they would have already made some counter measures to tackle f16 I think if this is so difficult for them. Definitely some jammers, hi-tech sencers they already acquired to keep the balance of power in their favor
We still have some gaps to fill I believe despite all arguments

 

[The SC]

if Pakistan does not have a heavy fighter, India will have the inivtiative and superiority, the F-16 blok52 will not hold against the SU-30MKI if it is not accompanied by an AWACS.

you is right to specify the local development, because it is better to develop its own technology, but we also bought high tech weapon in order to protect the country. pakistan are expected to strengthen SAM system

the 5th generation will change the strategy, a PAKFA with electronic jamming and powerful missile could easily entered your teritoire and destroy what he want, you need overkill radar, and also of the G5 fighter.

I do not know if the FC-31 is powerful, but pakistan has good relationship with China; you may be able to get a specific version of the J-20

(dsl exclaims wrong if I'm using google translation)

One question. Can the F-15 stand against the SU-30MKI?
If yes, than the F-16 too, since it can stand against the F-15 which is somehow superior to the SU-30 MKI.

 

[Last Samuri]

Su30mki is superior to anything in paf today.

Only the f16,come close to the mki.

The radar the aoa range weapons load and ew suites are outstanding . Tvc gives mki advantages over paf that just can't be replicated by falcons or thunders .

Paf has not found a real answer to mki even today

 

[Rocky rock]

Sir anti aircraft guns will contribute to just <10% in this senario but yes SAMs will work somehow to some extent but again this is not a situation which PAF can handle very easily without any real outstanding system that can out class adversary in numbers or a least in quality


Thanks Bhai for the useful info but does not all that u explained Indian already know, they would have already made some counter measures to tackle f16 I think if this is so difficult for them. Definitely some jammers, hi-tech sencers they already acquired to keep the balance of power in their favor
We still have some gaps to fill I believe despite all arguments

They are playing their cards we playin our..if they are aware about this so we also make ourselves ready for sukhoi's n mig's. The reason we are acquiring BVR missles and air defence systems. And by upgrading F-16s and thunders with better Radar n EU's. As I have already mentioned sukhois and migs are big aircrafts with having larger Rcs so they are easy to detect n tackle down with Aim-120's & SD-10. Yes we are havin less in quantity n we are workin on it. But remember quantity is not only which matters.