Questions regarding PAF modernization

[The SC]

calm, I sleep.

I have already explained, the SU-30 has a clear advantage it is an aerial superiority fighter, but he will not be alone in mission, india order will rafale, and a duet burst-su-30 is superuissant, and the F-16 has no chance.Sansa forget pakfa, india is ordered "250 SU-30, 126 rafale and between 150 to 200 PAKFA. 3 and all there are higher than the F-16.su-30 can be used as mini AWACS, and engage in combat at a distance, and will rafale if accompanied by the dog fight. and rafale and superior to the F-16.for the Indian MMRCA, burst won the big competition and the Indian SU-30MKI we beat the American F-16, everyone broke the American F-16.the JF17 and Pakistani F16 will not be able countered an Indian attack, the su-30 and PAKFA will engage in combat in the first, it will destroy a large part of your aircraft, and dog figh gust and pakfa will annihilate all will remain.

Do not count too much on the Rafale deal. It is more probable that Pakistan will have a total of 40 FC-31(first batch, more to come) and 72 J-!0s on top of 150 to 250 JF-17 and 72 F-16 block-52.
But the talk is only about the F-16 that i know to be a very very capable fighter, very difficult to defeat. and most importantly when combined with AWACS early warning systems.

 

[Rocky rock]

calm, I sleep.

I have already explained, the SU-30 has a clear advantage it is an aerial superiority fighter, but he will not be alone in mission, india order will rafale, and a duet burst-su-30 is superuissant, and the F-16 has no chance.Sansa forget pakfa, india is ordered "250 SU-30, 126 rafale and between 150 to 200 PAKFA. 3 and all there are higher than the F-16.su-30 can be used as mini AWACS, and engage in combat at a distance, and will rafale if accompanied by the dog fight. and rafale and superior to the F-16.for the Indian MMRCA, burst won the big competition and the Indian SU-30MKI we beat the American F-16, everyone broke the American F-16.the JF17 and Pakistani F16 will not be able countered an Indian attack, the su-30 and PAKFA will engage in combat in the first, it will destroy a large part of your aircraft, and dog fight gust and pakfa will annihilate all will remain.

well i always couldn't be able to understand your whole talk due to your google translation..
ok we admit that SU-30 mki is Aerial superiority fighter, as i have mentioned before india would never be able to use all of it's mki's against pak because we have only got one enemy "india" so we can use every single bullet to confront india.. but on their side they have to face two forces at a time Pak & china. which is worlds largest Armed force. so in case of war india would have to keep most of her air superiority fighter for chinese aggresion. they could hardly use 2/3 squadron of mki's and other mig-29 and mirage 2000's for pakistan. and pakistan could use all of it's Fighter's to fight against india. that's the real benefit we got here. So don't always start to compare indian Airforce quantity with pakistan AF.

on other side as you'r talking about indian future procurement's well Rafale deal isn't yet finalized. there are rare chances of being finalized of this deal. and if they are acquiring T-50 in future so we also do have plans of acquiring 5th Gen fighter's like FC-31 and could be j-20 if we would barley need it.. so just leave that matter on time.!

 

[gslv mk3]

It is more probable that Pakistan will have a total of 40 FC-31(first batch, more to come) and 72 J-!0s on top of 150 to 250 JF-17

What is the timeline for these procurement ?We would have FGFA/PAKFA by that time

J 10 deal have stalled,I've heard.

 

[Rocky rock]

What is the timeline for these procurement ?We would have FGFA/PAKFA by that time

J 10 deal have stalled,I've heard.

j-10 deal is almost dead, we are going for further thunder developments and upgradation. and focusing on 5th gen fighters rather than buying more 4/4++ gen fighters. we would be able to procure these 5th gen fighters until 2020/25..

 

[AFlover]

well i always couldn't be able to understand your whole talk due to your google translation..
ok we admit that SU-30 mki is Aerial superiority fighter, as i have mentioned before india would never be able to use all of it's mki's against pak because we have only got one enemy "india" so we can use every single bullet to confront india.. but on their side they have to face two forces at a time Pak & china. which is worlds largest Armed force. so in case of war india would have to keep most of her air superiority fighter for chinese aggresion. they could hardly use 2/3 squadron of mki's and other mig-29 and mirage 2000's for pakistan. and pakistan could use all of it's Fighter's to fight against india. that's the real benefit we got here. So don't always start to compare indian Airforce quantity with pakistan AF.

on other side as you'r talking about indian future procurement's well Rafale deal isn't yet finalized. there are rare chances of being finalized of this deal. and if they are acquiring T-50 in future so we also do have plans of acquiring 5th Gen fighter's like FC-31 and could be j-20 if we would barley need it.. so just leave that matter on time.!

Sir ur arguments r valid but wen we talk of India pak senario we take it as all India vs all pak. India China do not have such a serious confrontation situation as we have.
I don't think India will ever create a situation where she has to face both all together.
She might keep a squardens or two for China but for sure India will deploy 70-90% of its fighter for pak

 

[Rocky rock]

Sir ur arguments r valid but wen we talk of India pak senario we take it as all India vs all pak. India China do not have such a serious confrontation situation as we have.
I don't think India will ever create a situation where she has to face both all together.
She might keep a squardens or two for China but for sure India will deploy 70-90% of its fighter for pak

i didn't said india will have to confront pak & china at same time... but they can't keep "LOAC" blank... so if they would be in war they must kept balanced quantity of military on both sides Army navy & Airforce.

For example india has 12 lac army so in case of war they couldn't deploy all of them to confront Pakistan. they must have to keep few lac's on chinese side too... No country could left their other borders blank in case of war...but on Pakistan's side situation is different if they have 6 lac army so they can deploy all of them if they need to can left few thousands on Afghan border.. that's the same case of Airforce and Navy!

 

[Taygibay]

Edited because Rocky beat me to in in part.

@AFlover Huh … not to impinge on a thread in which I did not partake so far but since you and I exchanged nicely before, AFlover, that answer is all wrong, mate!

India would certainly not deploy 75%+ of its air assets for Pakistan only.
Doing so would be a huge strategic mistake. If they ever had this line of thought, it would be courting disaster.

Simple scenario : China wants to do India in.
They wait ( or help create ) for a tense enough situation to develop between PAK and Bharat.
They then make sure war ensues by pushing the right buttons.
India send 25 Squadrons to face Pakistan and …
China attacks it with 50% of its air force facing a mere 30-40 planes?

Don't under estimate an enemy, it never pays off. I feel confident India knows that, buddy.
In fact that is where the 45 Squadrons number for the IAF comes from. Enough to make sure it can manage a war over Kashmir without ending up naked to defend against the Celestials, nothing arcane or magic in that estimate.

And as long as I'm around, on page 6, Rule 37 made a mistake :
The Su 30 MKI never won the MMRCA facing the F-16I.
MMRCA was for a complement on the road to 45 Sq.
F-16/MiG 35/F-18/Gripen, EF and Rafale were the contenders.
Su 30MKI was already there prior to it.

Sorry for the interruption and good day all, Tay.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Edited because Rocky beat me to in in part.

@AFlover Huh … not to impinge on a thread in which I did not partake so far but since you and I exchanged nicely before, AFlover, that answer is all wrong, mate!

India would certainly not deploy 75%+ of its air assets for Pakistan only.
Doing so would be huge strategic mistake. If they ever had this line of thought, it would be courting disaster.

Simple scenario : China wants to do India in.
They wait ( or help create ) for a tense enough situation to develop between PAK and Bharat.
They then make sure war ensues by pushing the right buttons.
India send 25 Squadrons to face Pakistan and …
China attacks it with 50% of its air force facing a mere 30-40 planes?

Don't under estimate an enemy, it never pays off. I feel confident India knows that, buddy.
In fact that is where the 45 Squadrons number for the IAF comes from. Enough to make sure it can manage a war over Kashmir without ending up naked to defend against the Celestials, nothing arcane or magic in that estimate.

And as long as I'm around, on page 6, Rule 37 made a mistake :
The Su 30 MKI never won the MMRCA facing the F-16I.
MMRCA was for a complement on the road to 45 Sq.
F-16/MiG 35/F-18/Gripen, EF and Rafale were the contenders.
Su 30MKI was already there prior to it.

Sorry for the interruption and good day all, Tay.

this guy is interesting

well dear look at it this way for pakistan we dont need to put 75% of owr fighters its way less

we have 7 air bases specially to takell and destroy PAF if ever things come to that and in neumerical sytem we have some

5 squads (90) MKIs 2 for Air superiorty

squads of Ugpgraded M2ks & Mig 29s (53+60)for SEAD & air interception/policing

and some 150 Jag for CAS

150 Bisons for point defence

against 18 Blk 52 & 40 + 13Blk50F16s for air superiorty ,interception & SEAD +50 JF17for CAS +100 mirage 3s& 5s & F-7s backed by 2 swedish eyewire and 5 chinese AWACs and a few obsolete US & french ground based radars whocant function to there abiltydeu to spares shortages (remmeber may 2nd 2011 raid)

tell me how will you nail IAF if you forget the AESA & PESA based indian ground based radars & aerostat and AWACS (phalcons & DRDO ) radar systems which look and scan 24X7X365 pakistan air space all the way till hindu kush ranges and given a top cover by indian spy sats

 

[Taygibay]

Dutt, I was correcting the basis not the specifics.
I know the details you mention but having talked with him on another thread, I am not certain AFlover does.
For that reason, I chose to answer the case figure, not the case's figures.

I'm neither Indian nor Pakistani so I treat these matters from a neutral point of view.
I only wanted to make sure the gentle mate had the proper starting point, that's all!

Have a good day, Tay.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Dutt, I was correcting the basis not the specifics.
I know the details you mention but having talked with him on another thread, I am not certain AFlover does.
For that reason, I chose to answer the case figure, not the case's figures.

I'm neither Indian nor Pakistani so I treat these matters from a neutral point of view.
I only wanted to make sure the gentle mate had the proper starting point, that's all!

Have a good day, Tay.

thanks buddy i also came just to tell the OP of the thread that indiaor indian air force has no intention to attack pakistan the way most pakistani fanboys want india to react Good Night and Jai Hind

 

[AFlover]

Edited because Rocky beat me to in in part.

@AFlover Huh … not to impinge on a thread in which I did not partake so far but since you and I exchanged nicely before, AFlover, that answer is all wrong, mate!

India would certainly not deploy 75%+ of its air assets for Pakistan only.
Doing so would be a huge strategic mistake. If they ever had this line of thought, it would be courting disaster.

Simple scenario : China wants to do India in.
They wait ( or help create ) for a tense enough situation to develop between PAK and Bharat.
They then make sure war ensues by pushing the right buttons.
India send 25 Squadrons to face Pakistan and …
China attacks it with 50% of its air force facing a mere 30-40 planes?

Don't under estimate an enemy, it never pays off. I feel confident India knows that, buddy.
In fact that is where the 45 Squadrons number for the IAF comes from. Enough to make sure it can manage a war over Kashmir without ending up naked to defend against the Celestials, nothing arcane or magic in that estimate.

And as long as I'm around, on page 6, Rule 37 made a mistake :
The Su 30 MKI never won the MMRCA facing the F-16I.
MMRCA was for a complement on the road to 45 Sq.
F-16/MiG 35/F-18/Gripen, EF and Rafale were the contenders.
Su 30MKI was already there prior to it.

Sorry for the interruption and good day all, Tay.

Thanks for more detailed clarification I thought it to be other way round because China is investing billions of dollars in India and they had just one war with India in last 60 years
Why would India fight with China
So I m convinced what rockey highlighted all 42 vs 24 is not true it may. Be 25-35 vs 24
Thanks janab

 

[GURU DUTT]

i didn't said india will have to confront pak & china at same time... but they can't keep "LOAC" blank... so if they would be in war they must kept balanced quantity of military on both sides Army navy & Airforce.

For example india has 12 lac army so in case of war they couldn't deploy all of them to confront Pakistan. they must have to keep few lac's on chinese side too... No country could left their other borders blank in case of war...but on Pakistan's side situation is different if they have 6 lac army so they can deploy all of them if they need to can left few thousands on Afghan border.. that's the same case of Airforce and Navy!

listen son niether india nor china are going to war to help pakistan as both have a lot to earn if there is peace between the two and toomuch too loose if both want a war

as for pakistan onli way it can contain india is that some how it instigates a war between india and china on which even chines make jokes(on pakistani dreams) as inthe world history to break the ice between two power blocks the weak mediator / opportunist ismade the sacrificial lamb

nowabout size of armies wellthey dont matter much as china has to cross themighty himalyas to get into india and on onsuch massive hights all conventional war theories dont work

now for Navy well unlike pakistan indian navy is not the weaklink in the armour

have a nice day

 

[Rocky rock]

listen son niether india nor china are going to war to help pakistan as both have a lot to earn if there is peace between the two and toomuch too loose if both want a war

as for pakistan onli way it can contain india is that some how it instigates a war between india and china on which even chines make jokes(on pakistani dreams) as inthe world history to break the ice between two power blocks the weak mediator / opportunist ismade the sacrificial lamb

nowabout size of armies wellthey dont matter much as china has to cross themighty himalyas to get into india and on onsuch massive hights all conventional war theories dont work

now for Navy well unlike pakistan indian navy is not the weaklink in the armour

have a nice day

Who let the dogs out.?

 

[Last Samuri]

Pakistanis clearly hoping that in a event of war with India that China starts massive build up on himlsyers to divert their mki fleet to the to the north.

I think the paf strategy shows they know they can never reduce the the 3 to 1 superiority in fourth gen fighters without involoving China.

Unfortunately the chinease are not as hostile towards India and not in the remotest likley to go to armed conflict and tension.

It's Pakistani wish and prayer that. They need to happen.

 

[Mrc]

Pakistanis clearly hoping that in a event of war with India that China starts massive build up on himlsyers to divert their mki fleet to the to the north.

I think the paf strategy shows they know they can never reduce the the 3 to 1 superiority in fourth gen fighters without involoving China.

Unfortunately the chinease are not as hostile towards India and not in the remotest likley to go to armed conflict and tension.

It's Pakistani wish and prayer that. They need to happen.

Wow you seem to know every thing that goes through pakistani planners mind...