QING SUBMARINE - Pakistan Navy

[Donatello]

Hi,

Official flank speed of Akula could be around 35--38 knots----un-officially 40--45 knots. As for arihant---the official speed is lesser----I doubt that very much---a newer version of akula---a lesser speed---not believable.

In order for a torpedoes to catch it---it needs to have a speed of around 60 + knots-----minimu 1/3rd speed faster than the sub.

( But---if 28 knots is the true maximum flank speed----then that is one big flaw that india will come to rue at time of engagement ).

For that reason----the russians know that they cannot compete with the fast and silent boats of the u s and their electronic warfare and sensor package----so what do they do---they come up with shkval---an extremely high speed deadly torpedoe which can reach speeds of over a 100 knots when in the final attack mode.

Just for the sake of information---latest torpedoes when launched don't go out at maximum speed like the missiles----they maybe sniffing and hunting like dogs and once they lock onto the scent they start tracking it----as they get closer---then in the final putsch---they go to their max speed.

The other thing is that the arihant can stay at flank speed 24/7 if it needs to---( just for the sake of argument ) the AIP can't do that at all. It has a very limited time for a flank speed---it does not have the endurance.

AIP or diesel boats cannot compete with the nuc boats---. If they cannot take the nuc boat out with a surprise first shot---they don't have a chance of coming out of it alive.

Pak will need a couple of nuc boats---there is no other way around it---.

Senor are you sure Akula has that speed? Because Soviet Alfa class was that speeding monster. Also, running the sub at max speed means maximum noise.

Also, INS Arihant is a ballistic missile submarine, not a hunter-killer like the Akulas and Alfas.

 

[MastanKhan]

Donatello,

Thank you for correcting me. As I read that it is based on Akula---for that reason I assumed---made an *** of mee----. Well the rated speed of Akulas is 35 + knots----and actual is positively higher.

So---even at 35 knots for Akula---the torpedoe needs to be at a flank speed of 52 knots to catch it in a tail chase---which will happen.

As for a ballistic missile boat arihant being taken out by the augusta---that would be a heart breaker.

 

[Donatello]

Donatello,

Thank you for correcting me. As I read that it is based on Akula---for that reason I assumed---made an *** of mee----. Well the rated speed of Akulas is 35 + knots----and actual is positively higher.

So---even at 35 knots for Akula---the torpedoe needs to be at a flank speed of 52 knots to catch it in a tail chase---which will happen.

As for a ballistic missile boat arihant being taken out by the augusta---that would be a heart breaker.

Yes indeed. The hydrodynamic shape of the ballistic missile submarine doesn't allow it to go very fast. In any case, the Arihant would be headed by nuclear hunter killers.

For arihant, another drawback is the noise when it will open it's torpedo/silo doors.

 

[Luftwaffe]

For that reason---I would have stuck with the germans or the french boats. The only advantage the chinese would have is the nuc tipped missiles.

That is our bad policies ill thinking we suspended most of the military/naval comm & procurement, see how israelis with the help of germans turned Type 209 into larger beast and 2-3 into non nuclear but potent larger displacement/size variant of Type 212 submarines.

If we had good relation with french which our own doing we could have developed with their help slightly larger than A-90B in length and displacement with much inputs better electronic warfare package/sensors, Agosta would have lived even longer with another variant. A country where 6.5b rupees are printed everyday has not a dime for Pak Navy/PAF where Air Chief goes to finance minister ishaq dar for the second time in 7 months how insulting could it go. It's pity PN could have been much better equipped, no matter what we should get close to french.

 

[Penguin]

Yes indeed. The hydrodynamic shape of the ballistic missile submarine doesn't allow it to go very fast. In any case, the Arihant would be headed by nuclear hunter killers.

For arihant, another drawback is the noise when it will open it's torpedo/silo doors.

Most SSBNs do 25kn or better submerged (typically 5-10kn better than a non-nuclear sub, which can not hold that speed for long). That is not slow. Also do realize that going 35kn or even 45kn underwater essentially renders the submarine blind (no effective sonar performance) and unstealthy (it makes a lot of noise).

 

[SQ8]

Most SSBNs do 25kn or better submerged (typically 5-10kn better than a non-nuclear sub, which can not hold that speed for long). That is not slow. Also do realize that going 35kn or even 45kn underwater essentially renders the submarine blind (no effective sonar performance) and unstealthy (it makes a lot of noise).

And submarines perform most effective quiet.Not fast.
As such, most PN torpedoes do about 50 knots+.. so the whole point is hollow at best.

 

[Nishan_101]

Is PN looking to have a JV with China on submarine and if yes then it must welcome Algeria, Libya, Tunisia and Yemen in the program as well:

7000 SSBN
3500 SSK
1600 SSK-Small
700 SSK-Coastal
110 Special Force Submarines
Rescue Submarines.

Although the world has changed a lot and now Cruisers, Destroyers, Frigates and Corvettes are not the one needed in huge numbers. I would say that all of the Muslim countries must look in to a bigger submarine fleet and make only surface fleet comprising of:
1100 Tons Multirole FAC
2500 Tons Multirole Corvette

 

[nomi007]

 

[khanasifm]

Can someone translate and tell what sub is it,

its shows AIP which mean its not nuclear but still has Sub Launched silos

 

[kurup]

Can someone translate and tell what sub is it,View attachment 19018 its shows AIP which mean its not nuclear but still has Sub Launched silos

Russian Amur Class Submarine .

 

[nomi007]

Foreign media exposed China's latest conventional submarines from Germany 212 submarine design
According to Canada, "Chinese Defense Review" website reported on March 24 in Wuhan shipyard there is a new ship diesel-powered submarines, the shape of the front of the biggest change is that the contact angle of sail and hull becomes streamlined. Such changes similar to Germany's 212 series designed primarily to further reduce sail water, underwater resistance, reduce water noise.
[ 转自铁血社区 铁血论坛 ? 铁血社区 - 铁血网 ]

Article that appeared aboard the new submarine is most likely on the basis of the 039B, made more improvements, modern European diesel-electric submarine design, not just change the sail shape by reducing water resistance, the hull itself from the traditional The water drop change into a cigar -type, the Chinese navy publications over the past 10 years, quite carefully analyzed the structure and design advantages of the cigar-shaped hull, so the new 039 is also improved using the cigar-shaped hull future needs sustained attention.

In addition, Germany , Japan and diesel-electric submarines dive rudder also changed from the traditional cross of X-type, in order to enhance the effectiveness of the rudder. Are 039C also uses X-type submarine rudder? Deserves further attention.

The biggest improvement will be concentrated in the fire control and weapons systems. Now, China has been learned on the basis of Club-S submarine-to-ship missile series on cloning his "submarine-launched, multi-purpose super-combined subsonic missile." This missile is likely to apply to 039C. And can be deployed to the already mass-039B. As AIP Stirling engine has been equipped to the number of vessels 039B, 039C and therefore will also continue to use the Stirling engine .

039C appear, it means 039B production end? Needs further observation, since 2012, did not find Shanghai Jiangnan Shipyard Wuhan continue production of signs 039B.