Qaher F313 l News & Discussion

[ashool]

Look like Qaher couldn't fly so the project was canceled ...[/QU
are u need some water

 

[Muhammed45]

I don't think Iran should care one bit about UN nonsense! Problem is we have people in leadership position that are too shortsighted that think differently!

I think as soon as lab scale and R&D in Ti was done they should have gone full in with $100 Million USD "a year" investment for rapid production.
Ti is a strategic alloy that is NOT a rare earth alloy and is without a doubt a necessity! But sadly I just don't see the Rohani administration doing much to address it!

It cannot be called shortsightedness of our military men. They did the best that they could do, even if we had developed the best fighter jet with providing sensitive and expensive technologies, yet, we would have had tens of air defense systems around our country, Patriots and THAADs , every fighter similar to F 18, could cost us a lot, let alone being shot down by high quality air defense systems existing in Israel and P-GCC area, hence having a land locked and surrounded country. Having missile capability with high precision was on the agenda, and I salute to our decision makers in armed forces. They did the right thing.

Time to develop a capable local fighter and also providing TOT from Russia.

 

[N_Al40]

Do you have proof? Or are you just rambling your unsubstantiated claims?

Expecting Qaher to come into fruition before 2020 was folly. Modern fighter jet projects take 10-20 years to develop. To expect Iran to field a 5th gen fighter or 4++ gen fighter before Russia and China have even fielded their own was laughable.

If it takes Iran Navy YEARS to build a single 1970s designed corvette (mowj ships) why would you expect a brand new aircraft platform to be developed faster?

Dehqan said in the taxing unveiling last year that it will be in service by 2023-2025.

When it comes to F-313, no one bothers talking about the facts and whats been officially said unfortunately. Just stupid rants from irrational hyper-skeptics and armchair aeronautical engineers.

 

[VEVAK]

Look like Qaher couldn't fly so the project was canceled ...

If the Q-313 gets canceled it would have absolutely nothing to do with it's ability to fly!

And again there is absolutely NOTHING special about the Q-313!

For a manned fighter jet project to go passed R&D there needs to be a very detailed cost vs benefit analysis that make sense and by the most part the cost benefit analysis of the Q-313 just DOES NOT!

The Q-313 doesn't pass even a simple rudimentary cost benefit analysis let alone a detailed one your putting a pilot and two jet engines on a low survivable low maneuvering subsonic aircraft with speeds likely less than most subsonic cruise missile that can only carry two 1000lb bombs using jet engines that are far more expensive then low lifespan jet engines used on cruise missiles that uses far more fuel!
In terms of fuel consumption you may get more fight hours but your not actually achieving increased range due to the low aerodynamic profile of the aircraft and reduced speeds.

 

[VEVAK]

It cannot be called shortsightedness of our military men. They did the best that they could do, even if we had developed the best fighter jet with providing sensitive and expensive technologies, yet, we would have had tens of air defense systems around our country, Patriots and THAADs , every fighter similar to F 18, could cost us a lot, let alone being shot down by high quality air defense systems existing in Israel and P-GCC area, hence having a land locked and surrounded country. Having missile capability with high precision was on the agenda, and I salute to our decision makers in armed forces. They did the right thing.

Time to develop a capable local fighter and also providing TOT from Russia.

Titanium has a wide application profile and it doesn't start and end with a fighter program! This is not just about a fighter program!

Without a doubt I agree with the decision of heavy reliance on home made missiles & UAV's rather than fighters and if anything I would like to see Iran increase UAV, Solid fuel BM and low cost cruise missile production by up to 100 fold long before we mass produce a capable fighter! In terms of liquid fueled I would like to see a wider diameter missiles with more accurate MIRV and every new liquid fuel BM should be armed with 4 reentry vehicles + modified multistage BM for anti satellite operations!

I think for Iran for the foreseeable future missile & UAV mass production should always be the top priority.

In terms of our fighter jet fleet I don't believe we need an Air Force any larger than the one we already have but we do need to replace the ones we have with newer aircraft ~160-180 Active + limited number of trainers/CAS (like the kowsar) + the top 100 of our current fighters to be prepped for long term storage

I think Iran will need to buy ~80-100 of the most advanced Air Superiority fighters it can get it's hands on to back up our Air Defense and in terms of domestic fighter program Iran needs to be focused on building a limited number of force multipliers ~ the size and flight profile of a Mirage IV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_IV equipped with modern Iranian advancements produced at a rates of 4-6 per year that are well within our capabilities that don't required massive investment in large quantities of tools and facilities produced until we have a fleet of ~60 + the purchase of 12 of the most advanced twin seat multi role fighter we can buy + the construction of the most advanced multi role fighter we can build at a production rate of 1 per year built by the Air Force using Air force personal and facilities whos main focus would be R&D and the increase of the countries technological capabilities

Take a good look at the region we live in! The Saudi Crown prince is the new Saddam of the region! He is a small minded delusional fool that has no problem bombing it's weakest neighbor in Yemen and creating famine in a Muslim country that was no threat to Saudi Arabia, He has no problem dictating terms to it's other neighbor in Qatar! And if he wasn't scared of his own population he would go as far as allowing an Israeli base on Saudi soil! And in the past few years he has out spent India and now Russia in defense spending and his main and only focus is Iran!

And NO we don't need to match the Saudi's in defense spending but if we had a responsible government in our country based on the current threats we would at the very least allocate $20 Billion USD a year towards weapons production and acquisition

 

[OldTwilight]

If the Q-313 gets canceled it would have absolutely nothing to do with it's ability to fly!

And again there is absolutely NOTHING special about the Q-313!

For a manned fighter jet project to go passed R&D there needs to be a very detailed cost vs benefit analysis that make sense and by the most part the cost benefit analysis of the Q-313 just DOES NOT!

The Q-313 doesn't pass even a simple rudimentary cost benefit analysis let alone a detailed one your putting a pilot and two jet engines on a low survivable low maneuvering subsonic aircraft with speeds likely less than most subsonic cruise missile that can only carry two 1000lb bombs using jet engines that are far more expensive then low lifespan jet engines used on cruise missiles that uses far more fuel!
In terms of fuel consumption you may get more fight hours but your not actually achieving increased range due to the low aerodynamic profile of the aircraft and reduced speeds.

It was cancelled .... IRIAF was against it from the start and when they asked for Su-30 , they show what they want and how they think ...

 

[N_Al40]

It was cancelled .... IRIAF was against it from the start and when they asked for Su-30 , they show what they want and how they think ...

Please cite sources, otherwise you're no better than BT.

Also, this is IRGC project as part of its aerial asymmetric warfare doctrine; IRIAF will most likely get SU-30 after arms embargo is lifted in October 2020.

 

[TheImmortal]

Please cite sources, otherwise you're no better than BT.

Also, this is IRGC project as part of its aerial asymmetric warfare doctrine; IRIAF will most likely get SU-30 after arms embargo is lifted in October 2020.

I have news for you, the arms embargo will not be lifted. Even if it is lifted it will be in name only.

US/NATO have too much leverage on Russia to allow any significant fighter jet purchase to go through.

The only way it will happen is if Russia sells Iran the technology for SU-30 and acts like Iran did it on their own (ie karrar project).

That seems unlikely given how important that SU-30 and SU-35 project are to Russia. They wouldn’t even sell to china without strong intellectual property protection in place in the contract

 

[AmirPatriot]

US/NATO have too much leverage on Russia to allow any significant fighter jet purchase to go through.

I think the poor relations between the west and Russia (Ukraine, London poisoning, Syria) coupled with the size of the purchase make it enough of an incentive for Russia. Remember our initial S-300 deal was worth $800 million. An Su-30 deal could be worth over $10 billion. That's a nice boon to Russia's economy and possibly brings the price of the Su-30SM down for Russia (at least that's how it works in western defence companies, correct me if I'm wrong).

The only way it will happen is if Russia sells Iran the technology for SU-30 and acts like Iran did it on their own (ie karrar project).

That seems unlikely given how important that SU-30 and SU-35 project are to Russia. They wouldn’t even sell to china without strong intellectual property protection in place in the contract

These two paragraphs don't correlate each other nor with realities. The S-300 is a strategic system which they sold to us, a much larger concern that the Karrar - if we even did get Russian support.

And Russia allowed India domestic production for the Su-30MKI, which at that time was more advanced relative to its time. So it isn't unprecedented.

 

[VEVAK]

It was cancelled .... IRIAF was against it from the start and when they asked for Su-30 , they show what they want and how they think ...

Of course the IRIAF was against it from the start! But that doesn't mean it was canceled because it couldn't fly!
And it has NOTHING to do with Su-30's! IRIAF is and would likely remain against any fighter whos cost vs benefit annalists doesn't make sense! And it doesn't matter if that fighter is domestic or imported!

It's common sense for them! You wanna put a highly trained fighter pilot in a low speed, low survivable airframe that has limited maneuverability, limited sensor capability, limited situational awareness, limited payload in a limited ranged fighter jet with no Air to Air refueling capability who by the most part are meant to be deployed in high risk environments! Who at the end of the day use one high cost jet engine per each 1000lb payload it's delivering! At least the F-5's had some capability to run and fairly ok maneuvering capability to at least attempt to dodge incoming missiles!
Also light composite airframe that the F-313 is made out of would greatly reduce the fighters survivability against future directed energy weapons and when it comes to maintenance and repairs the airframes not only lacks in lifespan but they also are NOT so easily repairable and incase of damage they would require complete replacement of large sections of the airframe!
The F-313 may be a good technology demonstrator for Iran but it is NOT a good design for military use at least not at it's current state and not without MAJOR changes in it's design!


Even for American stealth fighters to penetrate Iran's Air Defense they would need to be deployed in combination with decoy UAV & they need platforms to conduct active Jamming with a "high speed" stealth fighter fleet that's equipped with passive sensors and a powerful enough AESA radars that could jam radars and they need their fleet to be backed by various types of support aircraft and their fighters would require detailed live data regarding the location and type of the Air Defense they are penetrating

Simply put the F-313 low RCS by it's self is NOT sufficient to even make up for the aircrafts lack of Speed and maneuverability let alone everything else so IRIAF would have to be suicidal to accept the F-313 even if they were promised 20 F-313's for every Su-30

 

[TheImmortal]

I think the poor relations between the west and Russia (Ukraine, London poisoning, Syria) coupled with the size of the purchase make it enough of an incentive for Russia. Remember our initial S-300 deal was worth $800 million. An Su-30 deal could be worth over $10 billion. That's a nice boon to Russia's economy and possibly brings the price of the Su-30SM down for Russia (at least that's how it works in western defence companies, correct me if I'm wrong).



These two paragraphs don't correlate each other nor with realities. The S-300 is a strategic system which they sold to us, a much larger concern that the Karrar - if we even did get Russian support.

And Russia allowed India domestic production for the Su-30MKI, which at that time was more advanced relative to its time. So it isn't unprecedented.

You should google the problems Indians had with Russia regarding SU-30 and SU-50 (Russia’s 5th gen project).

I can’t believe how naive members are here, how many times does Russia have to screw you guys over for you to accept they aren’t trustworthy in arms deals?

The S-300 was only provided to Iran after the threat of war was squashed, after Iran demonstrated its own capability (Bavar system), and after the courts were going to hit Russia with BILLIONS in compensation to Iran for breach of contract.

And 10 billion is a drop in the bucket for Russia, it can achieve that selling to many Arab countries. Not to mention the pressure points US/NATO have on Russia (sanctions, Ukraine, expanding military deployment into more soviet satellite countries).

 

[Stryker1982]

Remember our initial S-300 deal was worth $800 million. An Su-30 deal could be worth over $10 billion.

Lets be real though, look at the artesh. Do you think this country has 10 billion dollars to spend on aircraft? This countries broke bro.

 

[TruthHurtz]

you guys should just do what the chinese do and steal military industrial secrets from the US. don't you have some extensive cyber army with a huge budget that's like ranked no.2 in the world? why don't you put it to good use and start targeting defence companies like boeing, lockheed etc to acquire classified data on the latest military aviation projects, it could launch you ahead by decades and cut down development costs considerably. you could also bargain the data in exchange for concessions from russia like maybe su-30 license production if you still want it. i've seen some evidence suggesting iran conducted such cyber espionage in the past, doesn't your talash ADS bear superficial similarities to the patriot ADS? (unless you sourced it from china who in turn got it from israel).

 

[Stryker1982]

you guys should just do what the chinese do and steal military industrial secrets from the US. don't you have some extensive cyber army with a huge budget that's like ranked no.2 in the world? why don't you put it to good use and start targeting defence companies like boeing, lockheed etc to acquire classified data on the latest military aviation projects, it could launch you ahead by decades and cut down development costs considerably. you could also bargain the data in exchange for concessions from russia like maybe su-30 license production if you still want it. i've seen some evidence suggesting iran conducted such cyber espionage in the past, doesn't your talash ADS bear superficial similarities to the patriot ADS? (unless you sourced it from china who in turn got it from israel).

Funny you mention that.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/justice-dept-charges-9-iranians-140657784.html

Some Iranian hackers stole 4 billion pages worth of research. Not raw data, but actual intellectual property from Universities in the U.S and some global in addition to many private companies worth billions of dollars worth of IP. Basically front line tech research of various subject is in the hands of Iran. It'll take time to go through the juicy details and make use of it, but Iran will do.

 

[TheImmortal]

Lets be real though, look at the artesh. Do you think this country has 10 billion dollars to spend on aircraft? This countries broke bro.

Money is not the issue. 10 billion could potentially net Iran over 100+ SU-30. Such a dramatic shift in Iran’s airforce capabilities.

The issue is Russia won’t sell (regardless what they say) or offer ToT or license production. Also I am not convinced that IRGC would allow Air Force to gain that much of an advantage. Air Force would become a powerful military wing in iran.

Plus does Iran have 75 or 100 pilots ready to be trained on SU-30?