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I think we are arguing for the sake of arguing. Iran and China are allies. Some teenagers here make comments insulting Iran.

My friend, lets not derail this thread anymore.

I saw his comments,if you think he was wrong I have no problem you fighting back ,but since you insulted china first and went out of control(I don't even know where is your hatred come from) it makes you nothing but a troll
 
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This is fucking werid,what's the problem with iranian‘s mindset towards china ?

when I first came to this forum many years ago I swear I saw an iranian member saying china is a dirt poor country and all chinese is living in miserable life,I didn't argue with him.but not long time ago I saw an iranian member here saying china is living under the mercy of west , I couldn't stand it anymore and typed lots of words to fight back

Now here we have another iranian member saying china is living under the mercy of Russia,I am speechless. I think I was doing nonsense here.Now I am feeling really tired of agruing with people who made such ridiculous statement,I suggest you two can fight with each other to see who can win, then we chinese can figure out which side we should be grateful ,thanks
Its not the mindset of Iranians, its the mindset of a few trolls here on pdf
 
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The real thing that build China current aviation industries are not the Soviet legacy but China industrialization and correct investment in education and talent.

Iran need to give up prejudice and buy Chinese military equipments first to build up its modern foundation.
 
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The real thing that build China current aviation industries are not the Soviet legacy but China industrialization and correct investment in education and talent.

Iran need to give up prejudice and buy Chinese military equipments first to build up its modern foundation.

I agree with first part of your post about China Industrial growth ,

but , we shouldn't buy anything from China because you are not much better than Russians when it comes to fulfill your deals ...
 
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The real thing that build China current aviation industries are not the Soviet legacy but China industrialization and correct investment in education and talent.

Iran need to give up prejudice and buy Chinese military equipments first to build up its modern foundation.
well we tried to buy Chinese anti-ship missiles but the deal didn't went through and we had to improvise , also don't forget china refused to send a communication satellite that was designed for civilian sector for us. so its not like we don't want to make deal with china but there is some lack of will on other side too
 
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Iran need to give up prejudice and buy Chinese military equipments first to build up its modern foundation.
Theres a UN arms embargo on Iran for five years as part of the Nuclear deal, and a ban on importing ballistic missile technology for 8 years.
So until then Iran cant buy anything which is ridiculous
 
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Theres a UN arms embargo on Iran for five years as part of the Nuclear deal, and a ban on importing ballistic missile technology for 8 years.
So until then Iran cant buy anything which is ridiculous
Yes,but long before that the chinese just like the russians were very unreliable in a lot of their dealings with iran,neither of these countries are friends or allies of iran and anyone who believes this is utterly deluded,at most china like russia is a some time partner of mutual convenience and thats pretty much it,the one major difference is that china does need iranian oil and so has to maintain a certain minimum level of "friendship" to ensure that the flow of oil continues.
 
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Yes,but long before that the chinese just like the russians were very unreliable in a lot of their dealings with iran,neither of these countries are friends or allies of iran and anyone who believes this is utterly deluded,at most china like russia is a some time partner of mutual convenience and thats pretty much it,the one major difference is that china does need iranian oil and so has to maintain a certain minimum level of "friendship" to ensure that the flow of oil continues.
China don’t need Iran oil critically. It can be fulfil by Iraq, Central Asia, Venezuela , Saudi , Africa and Russia if needed to. In Soon future, oil will be less relevant as more car switch to electric , more nuclear plant put into service. Alternative flame ice hydrate that will put into service.
As for unreliability, since Russian are equally unreliable. Why buy Russian instead of Chinese?

well we tried to buy Chinese anti-ship missiles but the deal didn't went through and we had to improvise , also don't forget china refused to send a communication satellite that was designed for civilian sector for us. so its not like we don't want to make deal with china but there is some lack of will on other side too
I doubt that China ever refuse send civilian satellite for Iran. Iran press will is notorious generating many fakes news.
 
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lol........you ain't nothin but a lumpa shit!.......you understand joker?

What the USSR did saving your flat *** from Japan and then from the US too, you'd be a little Japanese concubine or a yapping kuomingtan you understand? just like Taiwanese or Hongkongese today......singing praise after praise for your western or japanese colonial masters.

.....galactic chicken.......lol

Since some foreign paid posters infiltrated in this forum are hell bent spewing historical nonsense while letting loose a spate of invectives against a rare and genuine friend of Pakistan, far from derailing the original thread, some clarifications are needed.

:frown:

So who saved who during the 1936-1945 period, that overlaps the official WWII period?


The Second Sino-Japanese War was a military conflict fought primarily between the Republic of China and the Empire of Japan from July 7, 1937, to September 9, 1945. It began with the Marco Polo Bridge Incident in 1937 in which a dispute between Japanese and Chinese troops escalated into a battle.

Initially the Japanese scored major victories, capturing both Shanghai and the Chinese capital of Nanking in 1937. After failing to stop the Japanese in the Battle of Wuhan, the Chinese central government was relocated to Chongqing (Chungking) in the Chinese interior. By 1939, after Chinese victories in Changsha and Guangxi, and with Japan's lines of communications stretched deep into the Chinese interior, the war reached a stalemate. The Japanese were also unable to defeat the Chinese communist forces in Shaanxi, which waged a campaign of sabotage and guerrilla warfare against the invaders. While Japan ruled the large cities, they lacked sufficient manpower to control China's vast countryside.

Notice that at this point, when loosing 3 times its capital, the Republic of China did never surrender, unlike the feable West too prone to capitulate after an even shorter engagement:
Poland (who fought only from September 1 to September 27, 1939)
Finland (who only fought from November 30, 1939 to March 12, 1940)
Holland (who fought only from May 10, 1940 to May 15, 1940)
Belgium (who fought only from May 10, 1940 to May 28, 1940)
Norway (who fought only from April 9, 1940 to June 10, 1940)
France (who fought only from September 3, 1939 to June 22, 1940)
Yugoslavia (who fought only from April 6, 1941 to April 17, 1941)
Greece (who fought only from October 28, 1940 to April 27, 1941)


In 1944 Japan launched the invasion, Operation Ichi-Go, that conquered Henan and Changsha. However, this failed to bring about the surrender of Chinese forces. In 1945, the Chinese Expeditionary Force resumed its advance in Burma and completed the Ledo Road linking India to China. At the same time, China launched large counteroffensives in South China and retook West Hunan and Guangxi.
Despite continuing to occupy part of China's territory, Japan eventually surrendered on September 2, 1945.

This means that Japanese loss in manpower in China during the conflict from 1937 to 1945 amounted to 1.77 million deads, 1.9 million wounded, totaling: 3,670,000 (ROC estimate).
Considering that Operation Barbarossa, the Axis invasion of the Soviet Union, starting on 22 June 1941, during World War II, involved 3.8 million personnel (Initial Axis armies frontline strength), and that Japan had already considered an invasion of the Soviet Union such as in the "Northern Expansion Doctrine" (北進論, Hokushin-ron or Northern Road), a pre-World War II political doctrine of the Empire of Japan which stated that Manchuria and Siberia were Japan's sphere of interest and that the potential value to Japan for economic and territorial expansion in those areas was greater than elsewhere, it is only due to the Chinese people's heroic resistance that Japan could no longer seize this golden opportunity and launch a simultaneous assault on the USSR from the East, when Operation Barberossa started in the European theater of operation.
Indeed, as ~1.5 millions Japanese military personnels were already stucked for seven years in the Chinese quagmire!

Needless to add that a pincer movement from the Japanese in Siberia would have made impossible the Soviet's decisive reinforcement composed of some 30 divisions of Siberian troops freed from the Soviet Far East, that launched a massive counterattack as part of the Soviet winter counteroffensive, and pushing the German armies back 100–250 km from Moscow.

Not to mention the relocation of soviet factories in the East that allowed the USSR to continue its vital industrial production!


Conclusion

China as the first nation to enter the war as earlier as 1937, by opposing an unexpected all out resistance to the Japanese Empire, has jeopardized the Japanese possibility to wage a simultaneous war on the Soviet Union in 1941, which would have been ultimately fatal to the USSR.
By surrendering quickly like the other European cowardly nations, the Republic of China could have avoided the deaths and destructions, and being a puppet of Japan, could have sent its armies as cannon fodders in the invasion of the USSR, just like Manchukuo and Menkukuo, thus making the Soviet's resistance futile.

The Soviet Union owes a lot to the Chinese people, who lost officially 37 millions people, amounting to 40 percent of WWII total casualties. Denying this fact is an insult to the memory of the martyrs, who did suffer the worst massacres as in Nanjing, biological warfare, chemical warfare, mind-control warfare, directed energy warfare, and even being slaughtered as human guinea pig in live biological experiments.

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Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/ww2time.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Japanese_Neutrality_Pact
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokushin-ron
https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=22442
http://www.360doc.com/content/06/0314/02/5368_79419.shtml


Entire assembly lines were set up in the PRC

The Manchuria Airplane Manufacturing Company was established in late 1938 under the supervision of the Japanese government[2] as a subsidiary of the Nakajima Aircraft Company of Japan. Its main plant was located in Harbin, Manchukuo.

From 1941 to 1945, Manshū produced a total of 2,196 airframes (eighth among Japanese airframe manufacturers), of which 798 were combat aircraft. The company also produced 2,168 aircraft engines (sixth among Japanese aircraft engine manufacturers). In addition, Manshū provided repair services for a variety of aircraft in the Manchukuo Air Force and for Imperial Japanese Army Air Force units stationed in Manchukuo.

The Red Army confiscated the company's factory and equipment in 1945 at the end of World War II, and the Soviets took much of its equipment back to the Soviet Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchuria_Airplane_Manufacturing_Company


From the above we see that it is the opposite, the assembly lines are going from China's Far East toward the Soviet Union! And that led later to official complains from the PRC toward the USSR.

:disagree:
 
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Yes,but long before that the chinese just like the russians were very unreliable in a lot of their dealings with iran,neither of these countries are friends or allies of iran and anyone who believes this is utterly deluded,at most china like russia is a some time partner of mutual convenience and thats pretty much it,the one major difference is that china does need iranian oil and so has to maintain a certain minimum level of "friendship" to ensure that the flow of oil continues.

neither of USA , NATO , Russia , China and India doesn't want to face an dominate Muslim country which would lead to some sort of Muslims Empire ... so they will play with every Muslim country separately to ensure their power doesn't break certain level ...
if Iran grow more stronger than its current level , it can tip the balance of power in Persian gulf to her favor and latter in 1 or 2 decades expands her influence in Persian Gulf , Yemen and Central Asia ... so all world power has some un signed agreement to not let Iran to become more powerful ...
 
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I'm not going to respond to this teenage comment about taking credit for jap investments in the the manchurian puppet or kuomingtan aircraft industries set up in the occupied Chinese territories using brainwashed Chinese to do the grunt work!........in the interests of Iran/ China friendly relations........u understand this u teenager?

Now, if you want to continue with your teeanage rants, that's fine by me. Go on.......

Since some foreign paid posters infiltrated in this forum are hell bent spewing historical nonsense while letting loose a spate of invectives against a rare and genuine friend of Pakistan, far from derailing the original thread, some clarifications are needed.

:frown:

So who saved who during the 1936-1945 period, that overlaps the official WWII period?


The Second Sino-Japanese War was a military conflict fought primarily between the Republic of China and the Empire of Japan from July 7, 1937, to September 9, 1945. It began with the Marco Polo Bridge Incident in 1937 in which a dispute between Japanese and Chinese troops escalated into a battle.

Initially the Japanese scored major victories, capturing both Shanghai and the Chinese capital of Nanking in 1937. After failing to stop the Japanese in the Battle of Wuhan, the Chinese central government was relocated to Chongqing (Chungking) in the Chinese interior. By 1939, after Chinese victories in Changsha and Guangxi, and with Japan's lines of communications stretched deep into the Chinese interior, the war reached a stalemate. The Japanese were also unable to defeat the Chinese communist forces in Shaanxi, which waged a campaign of sabotage and guerrilla warfare against the invaders. While Japan ruled the large cities, they lacked sufficient manpower to control China's vast countryside.

Notice that at this point, when loosing 3 times its capital, the Republic of China did never surrender, unlike the feable West too prone to capitulate after an even shorter engagement:
Poland (who fought only from September 1 to September 27, 1939)
Finland (who only fought from November 30, 1939 to March 12, 1940)
Holland (who fought only from May 10, 1940 to May 15, 1940)
Belgium (who fought only from May 10, 1940 to May 28, 1940)
Norway (who fought only from April 9, 1940 to June 10, 1940)
France (who fought only from September 3, 1939 to June 22, 1940)
Yugoslavia (who fought only from April 6, 1941 to April 17, 1941)
Greece (who fought only from October 28, 1940 to April 27, 1941)


In 1944 Japan launched the invasion, Operation Ichi-Go, that conquered Henan and Changsha. However, this failed to bring about the surrender of Chinese forces. In 1945, the Chinese Expeditionary Force resumed its advance in Burma and completed the Ledo Road linking India to China. At the same time, China launched large counteroffensives in South China and retook West Hunan and Guangxi.
Despite continuing to occupy part of China's territory, Japan eventually surrendered on September 2, 1945.

This means that Japanese loss in manpower in China during the conflict from 1937 to 1945 amounted to 1.77 million deads, 1.9 million wounded, totaling: 3,670,000 (ROC estimate).
Considering that Operation Barbarossa, the Axis invasion of the Soviet Union, starting on 22 June 1941, during World War II, involved 3.8 million personnel (Initial Axis armies frontline strength), and that Japan had already considered an invasion of the Soviet Union such as in the "Northern Expansion Doctrine" (北進論, Hokushin-ron or Northern Road), a pre-World War II political doctrine of the Empire of Japan which stated that Manchuria and Siberia were Japan's sphere of interest and that the potential value to Japan for economic and territorial expansion in those areas was greater than elsewhere, it is only due to the Chinese people's heroic resistance that Japan could no longer seize this golden opportunity and launch a simultaneous assault on the USSR from the East, when Operation Barberossa started in the European theater of operation.
Indeed, as ~1.5 millions Japanese military personnels were already stucked for seven years in the Chinese quagmire!

Needless to add that a pincer movement from the Japanese in Siberia would have made impossible the Soviet's decisive reinforcement composed of some 30 divisions of Siberian troops freed from the Soviet Far East, that launched a massive counterattack as part of the Soviet winter counteroffensive, and pushing the German armies back 100–250 km from Moscow.

Not to mention the relocation of soviet factories in the East that allowed the USSR to continue its vital industrial production!


Conclusion

China as the first nation to enter the war as earlier as 1937, by opposing an unexpected all out resistance to the Japanese Empire, has jeopardized the Japanese possibility to wage a simultaneous war on the Soviet Union in 1941, which would have been ultimately fatal to the USSR.
By surrendering quickly like the other European cowardly nations, the Republic of China could have avoided the deaths and destructions, and being a puppet of Japan, could have sent its armies as cannon fodders in the invasion of the USSR, just like Manchukuo and Menkukuo, thus making the Soviet's resistance futile.

The Soviet Union owes a lot to the Chinese people, who lost officially 37 millions people, amounting to 40 percent of WWII total casualties. Denying this fact is an insult to the memory of the martyrs, who did suffer the worst massacres as in Nanjing, biological warfare, chemical warfare, mind-control warfare, directed energy warfare, and even being slaughtered as human guinea pig in live biological experiments.

lazu_thumb.gif
lazu_thumb.gif
lazu_thumb.gif


Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/ww2time.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Japanese_Neutrality_Pact
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokushin-ron
https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=22442
http://www.360doc.com/content/06/0314/02/5368_79419.shtml




The Manchuria Airplane Manufacturing Company was established in late 1938 under the supervision of the Japanese government[2] as a subsidiary of the Nakajima Aircraft Company of Japan. Its main plant was located in Harbin, Manchukuo.

From 1941 to 1945, Manshū produced a total of 2,196 airframes (eighth among Japanese airframe manufacturers), of which 798 were combat aircraft. The company also produced 2,168 aircraft engines (sixth among Japanese aircraft engine manufacturers). In addition, Manshū provided repair services for a variety of aircraft in the Manchukuo Air Force and for Imperial Japanese Army Air Force units stationed in Manchukuo.

The Red Army confiscated the company's factory and equipment in 1945 at the end of World War II, and the Soviets took much of its equipment back to the Soviet Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchuria_Airplane_Manufacturing_Company


From the above we see that it is the opposite, the assembly lines are going from China's Far East toward the Soviet Union! And that led later to official complains from the PRC toward the USSR.

:disagree:

Bullshit!.......One swipe of the pen, and Khamenei will deny you Iraqi oil, you understand?

Don't get uppity here.........We will control the ME, whether you like it or not. Your gubment is on board with our agenda, I suggest you keep that in perspective. And when you have devised alternative energy sources to oil & gas, you come and talk to me.

China don’t need Iran oil critically. It can be fulfil by Iraq, Central Asia, Venezuela , Saudi , Africa and Russia if needed to. In Soon future, oil will be less relevant as more car switch to electric , more nuclear plant put into service. Alternative flame ice hydrate that will put into service.
As for unreliability, since Russian are equally unreliable. Why buy Russian instead of Chinese?


I doubt that China ever refuse send civilian satellite for Iran. Iran press will is notorious generating many fakes news.
 
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As for unreliability, since Russian are equally unreliable. Why buy Russian instead of Chinese?
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Why did china buy su27/su30s instead of f15/f16/f18?
why did it buy the s300 instead of the patriot or continue production of its indigenous hq9 sam?
I suspect the answer is pretty much the same for china as it was for iran ie:because it was simply the best that was on offer to it at the time quality wise.....oh and in the case of china I frankly doubt that the west would`ve been willing to sell you its fighters let alone allow for tot and indigenous manufacturing,altho it is perhaps possible they might have considered selling you down rated/down spec "monkey model" versions but after the tiananmen square massacre that was simply out of the question,however luckily for china the soviet union imploded a couple of years later and china was then able to get all of the goodies it could previously only have dreamed of obtaining virtually laid out on a silver platter for it.
 
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lol........I just mumbled the same, however with a lot less political correctness, and it was poorly received.

No offense to the Chinese, but apparently it has struck a nerve.

Why did china buy su27/su30s instead of f15/f16/f18?
why did it buy the s300 instead of the patriot or continue production of its indigenous hq9 sam?
I suspect the answer is pretty much the same for china as it was for iran ie:because it was simply the best that was on offer to it at the time quality wise.....oh and in the case of china I frankly doubt that the west would`ve been willing to sell you its fighters let alone allow for tot and indigenous manufacturing,altho it is perhaps possible they might have considered selling you down rated/down spec "monkey model" versions but after the tiananmen square massacre that was simply out of the question,however luckily for china the soviet union imploded a couple of years later and china was then able to get all of the goodies it could previously only have dreamed of obtaining virtually laid out on a silver platter for it.
 
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