Qaher 313 ????

[SOHEIL]

Just with the current economic/political conditions and sanctions on the country. This aircraft will need assistance from foreign companies because building something like this isnt just simply reverse engineering. If the IRAF and Iran actually wants a proper aircraft that will function as an actual fighter and be able to compete with its rivals. Then it will absolutely require input and technologies from other countries that are already working in that field.

That will result in those that provide Iran with any sort of help, being blacklisted. Which will end or severely damage those companies and halt the program. Iran can try to steal technologies but that will also result in blacklisting and/or more sanctions on Iran or just its airforce but nonetheless ending the program.

With the current situation in the gulf, the US will also be at a predicament if this was let to establish. That would mean mass production and more competition for the USAF/navy. If previous conflicts are kept in mind and studied then its very clear that the US uses its airforce to a very demanding extent, in all its conflicts. So they will do anything in their power to stop this from happening.

Pakistan, when developing the Jf-17 also faced resistance for the US and the project was very well hidden, but all attempts were made to derail the project. Now imagine that happening with an even more hostile state to the US and they are trying to build a 5th gen aircraft, of all things. The answer is, that if Iran ever manages to be build it, then IRAF wont see it. Nor end up gaining anything.

Since 1979 we heard this annoying sentences : You can't do this ... You can't do that ... It's impossible ... etc !

Everything depends on your mentality ...

Just imagine a day comes that you have no value for china ! what will happen ?

We all know JF-17 (FC-1) mostly done by china !

And other stuff which imported directly from china and other countries ... Like AD systems , drones , etc

What are you going to do if political climate changes and you won't be able to import stuff ...

You are screwed ! because the "no you can't" fucked up mentality wasted your time !

Pakistan has the brain power to develop it's own SLV based on Shaheen or Ababeel but people say no we can use chinese SLVs , it's waste of money !

That's wrong ... because you have a suitable platform for a polar slv !

And it's possible to fund the project if you stop the ongoing corruption and use foreign investments properly !

Same goes for everything !

We started our work on AD systems with reverse engineering US made Hawk systems ... and work continued until we gained enough confidence to announce bavar-373 long range air defence system project about 10 years ago when russians refused to deliver s-300 ... a mockup from a possible design paraded and almost everyone mocked us and called it oil drums which are welded together for propaganda purposes !

But we proved them to be so wrong :

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Do you remember what happened when qaher unveiled ?

They mocked us !

They joked our early step to design and develop a new fighter jet ...

It's small ... no enough space for pilot ... no radome ... funny ... etc

Oil drums story happened again !

Mockup unveiled in February 2013 ...

On 15 April 2017 prototype 08 unveiled :

08 is clearly larger (compare able with F-5 in size)... functional landing gears ... full scale cockpit ... etc

Now more than 2 years passed and probably we are going to see changes and improvements again ...

 

[Hack-Hook]

Just imagine a day comes that you have no value for china ! what will happen ?

We also somehow have the same problem we don't produce the possessor and chips we use in our system just think what happen if Someday Russia refuse to sell us those chips.

 

[SOHEIL]

We also somehow have the same problem we don't produce the possessor and chips we use in our system just think what happen if Someday Russia refuse to sell us those chips.

For now ...

 

[Shams313]

For now ...

Yeah bro, semiconductor industry is the last step to be fully self sufficient...

 

[Hack-Hook]

Yeah bro, semiconductor industry is the last step to be fully self sufficient...

Sadly SA-Iran began to produce them years ago and some people with their infinite wisdom stoped them because importing them was cheaper .
More than a decade ago a group of young engineer here designed the same type of RISC processor we today import from Russia but nobody supported them.

 

[Shams313]

Sadly SA-Iran began to produce them years ago and some people with their infinite wisdom stoped them because importing them was cheaper .
More than a decade ago a group of young engineer here designed the same type of RISC processor we today import from Russia but nobody supported them.

Are there any fabs in Iran to produce chips...as far as I know fabs r complicated stuff and manufacturing tools and know how is another story.
Or only designing and manufactured in china...?

 

[Hack-Hook]

Are there any fabs in Iran and to produce chips...as far as I know fabs r complicated stuff and manufacturing tools and know how is another story.

They were starting with semiconductors not chips . but the production line shutdown because it was not economically competitive with some others.
About the processor . they were designing the processors not building them and building the chips in industrial scale is hard otherwise you could build a small FAB for defense industries .you actually don't need a 7nm top of the line FAB for the purpose a 22nm -45nm small FAB could have answered all the need in that strategic sector and it even did not need to be that big you could put the lithography devices in an apartment .

 

[Shams313]

They were starting with semiconductors not chips . but the production line shutdown because it was not economically competitive with some others.
About the processor . they were designing the processors not building them and building the chips in industrial scale is hard otherwise you could build a small FAB for defense industries .you actually don't need a 7nm top of the line FAB for the purpose a 22nm -45nm small FAB could have answered all the need in that strategic sector and it even did not need to be that big you could put the lithography devices in an apartment .

Yes...but it wasn't wise to shutdown such development. Look at that the world currently have no other competitor to TSMC which is bound to USA, that is also strategic problem for china in commercial market.
But in case of Iranian necessity ( mostly for military development) a good and well established of dev cycle of semiconductor industry, a very essential. U know u can't depend on other nations for critical parts supply which totally depends on political understanding.. Huawei is example.
It's not too late, yet, I hope irgc or defense ministry has any plan regarding that necessity.

 

[GreenLightning]

This is my honest opinion, and I have no intention to offend the Iranian brothers.
This can be very good as a concept and for experience in design and in building the actual jet, but if this plane gets in the air, I can assure you that it will be neither good at stealth or maneuverability. Iranians have a lot of potential and I know that they will one day build their own world class 5th gen fighter, so keep working on it and don't be discouraged.

 

[Sina-1]

This is my honest opinion, and I have no intention to offend the Iranian brothers.
This can be very good as a concept and for experience in design and in building the actual jet, but if this plane gets in the air, I can assure you that it will be neither good at stealth or maneuverability. Iranians have a lot of potential and I know that they will one day build their own world class 5th gen fighter, so keep working on it and don't be discouraged.

Please elaborate why it will not be “good at stealth or maneuverability”, thank you!

 

[TruthHurtz]

All this talk is fluff, there's no actual news.

 

[Battle of Waterloo]

This is my honest opinion, and I have no intention to offend the Iranian brothers.
This can be very good as a concept and for experience in design and in building the actual jet, but if this plane gets in the air, I can assure you that it will be neither good at stealth or maneuverability. Iranians have a lot of potential and I know that they will one day build their own world class 5th gen fighter, so keep working on it and don't be discouraged.

I think that's a fair opinion and that it's wise and justified to be sceptical.

However, no one is claiming that this is going to be some 5th gen stealth F-35 competitor. So when people mock it they are usually using straw man arguments. I see this project as a good technology demonstrator and first attempt to move to a new fully indigenous airframe/design etc and where the project will go - nobody knows.

 

[GreenLightning]

Please elaborate why it will not be “good at stealth or maneuverability”, thank you!

The design is neither suitable for stealth or maneuverability. It wouldn't be wise to be piloting it with a F16 in the air with you.

I think that's a fair opinion and that it's wise and justified to be sceptical.

However, no one is claiming that this is going to be some 5th gen stealth F-35 competitor. So when people mock it they are usually using straw man arguments. I see this project as a good technology demonstrator and first attempt to move to a new fully indigenous airframe/design etc and where the project will go - nobody knows.

Exactly, this will give them more experience and eventually they might come up with something amazing.

Since 1979 we heard this annoying sentences : You can't do this ... You can't do that ... It's impossible ... etc !

Everything depends on your mentality ...

Just imagine a day comes that you have no value for china ! what will happen ?

We all know JF-17 (FC-1) mostly done by china !

And other stuff which imported directly from china and other countries ... Like AD systems , drones , etc

...

Your mentality needs to be positive. If Iran excels in a specific field I will be proud, when a brother gets more success than you, you need to be proud and not jealous or negative in any sense. Muslims need to have this sense of brotherhood, and I don't mean to discriminate by not including non-Muslims, my point is that in this day and time Muslims aren't as powerful as they were before because they have lost this sense of unity. Please change your attitude, I'd advise you to be more positive in thinking for others.

 

[Sina-1]

The design is neither suitable for stealth or maneuverability. It wouldn't be wise to be piloting it with a F16 in the air with you

It’s not the final design, so I don’t see exactly which characteristics that would be inherently worse for either one of the features you mentioned. As soheil showed with the Bavar 373, the final design was immensely different to the early mockups. Also worth mentioning i that Bavar also received a fair share of “no offense but... it will be crap”. Now we can conclude that it’s the real deal and seemingly a powerful system.
Please do not be surprised when the same thing happens with Qaher.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Since 1979 we heard this annoying sentences : You can't do this ... You can't do that ... It's impossible ... etc !

Everything depends on your mentality ...

Just imagine a day comes that you have no value for china ! what will happen ?

We all know JF-17 (FC-1) mostly done by china !

And other stuff which imported directly from china and other countries ... Like AD systems , drones , etc

What are you going to do if political climate changes and you won't be able to import stuff ...

You are screwed ! because the "no you can't" fucked up mentality wasted your time !

Pakistan has the brain power to develop it's own SLV based on Shaheen or Ababeel but people say no we can use chinese SLVs , it's waste of money !

That's wrong ... because you have a suitable platform for a polar slv !

And it's possible to fund the project if you stop the ongoing corruption and use foreign investments properly !

Same goes for everything !

We started our work on AD systems with reverse engineering US made Hawk systems ... and work continued until we gained enough confidence to announce bavar-373 long range air defence system project about 10 years ago when russians refused to deliver s-300 ... a mockup from a possible design paraded and almost everyone mocked us and called it oil drums which are welded together for propaganda purposes !

But we proved them to be so wrong :

.
.
.

Do you remember what happened when qaher unveiled ?

They mocked us !

They joked our early step to design and develop a new fighter jet ...

It's small ... no enough space for pilot ... no radome ... funny ... etc

Oil drums story happened again !

Mockup unveiled in February 2013 ...

On 15 April 2017 prototype 08 unveiled :

08 is clearly larger (compare able with F-5 in size)... functional landing gears ... full scale cockpit ... etc

View attachment 576310

Now more than 2 years passed and probably we are going to see changes and improvements again ...

See this is where you dont get it. You cant compare the relationship Pakistan and China has with the relationship Iran will have with its suppliers. Pakistan and China are too intertwined to have each other pissed off. They are short of forming a union, but most outsiders dont realise this.

As for the JF-17 being mostly Chinese, then you are blindly singing an Indian tone, which is expected. Considering your country is in bed with them. That being said you could not be more off, from reality. Jf-17 is purely Pakistani with Chinese assistance taken to speed up the process and to utilize the industrial output of China. Where as it would take twice as long for Pakistan to do it alone. Pakistan would have needed to match Chinese industrialization before being able to produce the jet in large numbers. Pakistan used China as a catalyst for the project and that made things alot easier for both countries.

With that said, the JF-17 program isnt the only one Pakistan has had its scientists and engineers take part in. The J-10 program as also had pakistani input and development. Along with most Chinese tanks, helicopters and other small arms. When China is making something new or Pakistan is about to buy it. It gets processed and finalized through pakistan, bo matter which direction it takes. Thus purposely ignoring actual facts and saying Pakistan just sits on its a$s and imports from China, couldn't be further from the truth.

Regarding missiles, then why reinvent the wheel? When China has it and Pakistan an get it with complete technology/industrial transfers then why waste all the money and time on R&D. It suits Pakistan to invest that money into other programs, which Pakistan has alot of. This dynamic relationship can only be compared to that of the US and Israel, in some extent less and more.

So you singing the Indian tone, doesnt change the fact of reality being far more complex and intertwined.