Punjab: Christian woman sentenced to death for blasphemy

[third eye]

All states levy tax in one form or another -- whether its sales tax or nicome tax. Since Muslims are obligated by religion to pay zakaat, it would be unfair to tax them twice -- zakaat and income tax. Therefore, zakaat replaces income tax.

Since non-Muslims do not pay zakaat, they only pay regular income tax, i.e. jizya.

[B]You are getting hung up on terminology. [/B]If the tax was called income tax, with appropriate deductions/exemptions for zakaat, it wouldn't be an issue.

The law should be tailoted so that the actual amount of the tax ends up being the same either way.

See,I appreciate this is a religious issue so can be discussed only that much. But the point is that in principle taxation with religious overtones / bias does not seem relevant in the 21st Century. Thats all.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Taxation based on religion is unfair.

The amounts do not matter the concept is flawed.May have been relevant centuries ago and most definitely needs review provided of course anyone has the courage to question it.

what is your view of tax-breaks granted to the Vatican? a lot of debate going on about it

by the way, minority groups in Pakistan are not obligated to pay 'unfair' taxations --therefore you are making issues out of non-issues

kindly refer to Developereo's post




Suleyman Saab --- didn't realize you were such an old fart

 

[third eye]

what is your view of tax-breaks granted to the Vatican? a lot of debate going on about it

by the way, minority groups in Pakistan are not obligated to pay 'unfair' taxations --therefore you are making issues out of non-issues

kindly refer to Developereo's post




Suleyman Saab --- didn't realize you were such an old fart

Where in any of my replies have you found a reference to Pakistan ?

Principally it is wrong to tax anyone based on his religion. Being unaware of the Vatican I cannot comment on it but if that is the tax arrangement there then I feel this is wrong too.

We have moved past the stone age.

Yet as mention in my post above being a religious issue I choose to leave it at that.

 

[dabong1]

Taxation based on religion is unfair.

The amounts do not matter the concept is flawed.May have been relevant centuries ago and most definitely needs review provided of course anyone has the courage to question it.

So do tell us.......which muslim country imposes jizya at the present moment?

 

[kashith]

So do tell us.......which muslim country imposes jizya at the present moment?

Afghanistan did under Talibs.Similiar cases were heard in NWFP

 

[kashith]

Pakistan's Christians protest against blasphemy laws and inequality | Christian News on Christian Today

Three days prior to Pakistan's 63rd Independence Celebrations, the Christians of the country observed "Black Day" on Wednesday to protest alleged discrimination against them.

Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Pakistan's founder, in his famous August 11, 1947, speech to the newly-formed Constituent Assembly promised "freedom and equality" for all faiths in the then new country and so this has become a symbolic date for Christian protests.

The latest protests were staged by Human Rights Focus Pakistan (HRFP). Representatives of churches, Christian rights groups and believers from all walks of life, participated in a protest rally which ended at the Lahore Press Club.

Naveed Walter, President of HRFP, who addressed a press conference at the Lahore Press Club, later told ANS that the "increasing incidents of injustice and discrimination" against Pakistani Christians had prompted his group and other Christian organisations to observe August 11 as "Black Day".

Mr Walter told ANS, "We had urged all like-minded organisations across Pakistan to observe August 11 as 'Black Day' either with us or from their respective platforms."

He said that his group categorically demanded the repeal of Pakistan controversial blasphemy laws and that Pakistan's religious minorities be given the right to cast dual votes. He explained that, if implemented, members of the religious minorities under a dual vote system would be able to cast their vote for a Muslim candidate as well as to a member from minorities' communities on the "reserved seats".

Members of the religious minorities in Pakistan currently make their way to the national and provincial assemblies of Pakistan through the proportional representation system.

Criticising this system, Walter alleged that the people who make it to the national and provincial assemblies under proportional representation "only serve rulers instead of serving their respective communities".

Mr Walter added, "They are not accountable to the members of their respective community, but to the leadership of the political party that they belong to.

"The existing members of minorities in Parliament are puppets in the hands of the rulers. They are advancing the interests of the majority instead of their respective minority community."

He then alleged: "The rulers use them to stop the oppressed from agitating against the oppressors."

Walter said that he was of the view that under the Dual Vote System, the elected parliamentarians of minorities' communities would be accountable to their respective minority community.

When asked if he was in favour of an amendment in the blasphemy laws or even their repeal, Mr Walter said that the laws should be "repealed once and for all".

The Christian rights activist then claimed that there was "no equality" in Pakistan.

"I only wish there was equality here for people of all faiths," he added. "I wish that the Christians of Pakistan were treated equally in Pakistan as the Muslims and other religious minorities are treated equally in Western countries."

He also condemned the idea of observing what is called "Minority Day" in Pakistan.

"What is the rationale behind observing 'Minority Day' in Pakistan when the Christians of this country are being shot dead under the pretext of blasphemy?," he argued.

"Why should the Christians of Pakistan observe 'Minority Day' when their places of worship are being desecrated; when their homes are being burned down; and Christian girls are being raped?" he went on to say.

Mr Walter said that HRFP was planning to host Minorities Conference in Pakistan in future to discuss all the difficulties that these groups face.

"We will continue our struggle for equal rights for Pakistani minorities including Pakistani Christians," he vowed.

 

[WHF]

This is just the opposite. I have lived outside Pakistan all my life and I actually got interested in my religion as of late; I met an Indian Muslim family that had been in Australia for generations. They turned me to Islam. I have never attended a Pakistani madrassah at any time of my life. I have never completed the Qur'an in Arabic- I have only read its translation (but I'm working on it). Also note that the underlined bit is just a myth. Most people that believe the '72 virgins' myth learn about Islam from filmi sources. Your concept of Jihad is also wrong but I suggest listening to Zakir Naik.

72 concept or wat ever is debateable but im 100 % sure its true.
well ur suggestion that i learn islam??wait wait wait...Y the heck should i being a Hindu who is not interested in islam has to learn about it??if islams image is ternished it is due to the acys of muslims and if islam is that right muslims have to learn about it.
U know the very basis that islam only is truth as mentioned in ur holy books is the root cause to every problem.
How insulting is it other faiths that tey are sinners and muslims are pure,yet all the un holy acts are done by muslims and u argue that i a non muslim has to learn about Islam..

Really man dooms day is nearing for the muslims..

 

[humanfirst]

Guys i have some doubts regarding jizya and zakat
1.amount of zakat is 2.5% of annual income and if jizya is meant to equalise zakat then why is it's percentage left vague in islamic laws?(enabling muslim Rulers to levie as much as they wish)
2.If jizya is just protection money for non muslims from outside aggression then why did prophet muhammed demand jizya from far away nations which was not under his rule(his letters to rulers of oman and some other nations still exists,urging to accept islam or else to give jizya)

 

[wali87]

Blasphemy laws are useless; you cannot make people change their views about something, you can make them say what you want them to say or you can make them keep their mouth shut.

AND just so you know... This country was not just made for Muslims!

The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principle of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims --Hindus, Christians, and Parsis --but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.

Muhammad Ali Jinnah-Broadcast talk to the people of the United States of America on Pakistan recorded February, 1948

NON-MUSLIMS ARE PAKISTANI TOO!

The constitution of Pakistan was made in 1973.. do u remember? a future constitution? are u serious? I mean a country which could not make a constitution for 25 years. and today when we have one u say u want a new one.. anyhow I never said that non-muslims should'nt be given equal rights.. however if a person has the slightest love for The Holy Prophet, how could he ever tolerate something against him...

To clarify to you further, I am not against minorities in Pakistan and i consider them EQUAL citizens of Pakistan.. be it SIKHS, CHRITIANS or any HINDUS!

However, Pakistan is a 97-98 % muslim country and was founded on the Ideology of ISLAM! and I say again whoever speaks against the Prophet of Islam should have the same fate.. Be it a MUSLIM! or any other individual from another religion.

cheers

 

[WHF]

The constitution of Pakistan was made in 1973.. do u remember? a future constitution? are u serious? I mean a country which could not make a constitution for 25 years. and today when we have one u say u want a new one.. anyhow I never said that non-muslims should'nt be given equal rights.. however if a person has the slightest love for The Holy Prophet, how could he ever tolerate something against him...

To clarify to you further, I am not against minorities in Pakistan and i consider them EQUAL citizens of Pakistan.. be it SIKHS, CHRITIANS or any HINDUS!

However, Pakistan is a 97-98 % muslim country and was founded on the Ideology of ISLAM! and I say again whoever speaks against the Prophet of Islam should have the same fate.. Be it a MUSLIM! or any other individual from another religion.

cheers

Then donot cry foul when same blasphemy laws are applied to muslims in france and european countries..Dude soon they will follow, hate cannot give u back love, and u fundamental muslims cannot fight the non muslims..

 

[v9s]

Taxation based on religion is unfair.

The amounts do not matter the concept is flawed.May have been relevant centuries ago and most definitely needs review provided of course anyone has the courage to question it.

As Developereo said, since non-Muslims do not pay zakaat, they only pay regular income tax, i.e. jizya:

The Jizya or poll tax is a personal tax levied on non-******* in a Moslem State, and as such it resembles the Zakat (Alms Tax) which is levied on Moslem citizens by the Moslem State. The poll tax is levied so that all the capable non-Moslem citizens of the State can contribute, each from his own money, to the general welfare of the State, and that in return for this, they can enjoy their rights as nationals of this State, including compensation from the Moslem Exchecquer when they are in need.

Valour and mercy are not forgotten here, as the poll tax is not collected from the weak and poor. In his message to the people of Hira, Khaled Ibn Al-Walid says, "When a person is too old to work or suffers a handicap, or when he falls into poverty, he is free from the dues of the pull tax; his sustenance is provided by the Moslem Exchequer." In his book "Al-Kharaj," Abu Yusuf says, "No Jizya is due on females or young infants."

When the dues of the poll tax are paid by these people, they have to be supported, protected, granted a freedom of faith, and treated on a footing of justice and equality with *******. They are called "Zimmis" (the Arabic origin, "Zimma," meaning security, protection and custody) because the said rights are guaranteed by God and His Apostle, and such was the custom the Moslem leaders followed in dealing with the Zimmins. In his book "Futooh Al-Buldan" (Conquests of Countries), Al-Balathiri comments on this saying, "Khaled Ibn Al-Walid, on entering Damascus as a conqueror, offered a guarantee of security to its people and their properties and churches, and promised that the wall of the city would not be pulled down, and none of their houses be demolished. It was a guarantee of God, he said, and of the Caliph and all believers to keep them safe and secure on condition they paid the dues of the Jizya."

The poll tax is a small sum of money indeed when compared to the services the Moslem State offers to protect the Zimmis and support the army in charge to keep them safe from others' assaults. In his book "Al-Kharaj," Abu Yusuf gives the following reports: "After getting on peaceful terms with the people of Syria and collecting the dues of the Jizya and the Kharaj, news reached Abu 'Ubeida that the Byzantines had amassed their troops to attack him. The effect of this was great on Abu 'Ubeida and the Moslesm. He sent messages to the rulers of cities with whose citizens he had made peace, asking them to return to their subjects the paid dues of the Jizya and Kharaj, with an instruction to tell these: 'We hereby return to you the money you have paid us, because of the news of the enemy troops amassed to attack us, but, if God grants us victory against the enemy, we will keep up to the promise and covenant between us.' When this was delivered to the Zimmis and their money returned to them, they told the *******: May God bring you back to us and grant you victory over them!"

In his book, "The Spirit of Laws," on dealing with the taxes levied by the government, Montesqieu says, "Such levied taxes were one reason for the strange facility which the ******* faced during conquests. People, then, preferred -- instead of being subjected to an endless series of fines which entered the rich imagination of greedy rulers -- to submit to the payment of a minimal tax which can be fulfilled and paid with ease."

 

[v9s]

BTW, Is the jizya amount the same as the Zakaat amount?

Interesting question you've raised.
Common misconception among traditionalist muslims is that Zakat has to be paid only once a year (most common among many misconceptions about Zakat that traditionalists hold). After reading this LINK, and my previous post, you'll see that the Jizya tax is fair.

 

[dabong1]

Afghanistan did under Talibs.Similiar cases were heard in NWFP

So in the last 70 odd years you find a couple of examples of individuals but no islamic nations demanding jizya.
In afghnistan 99.7% of the population is muslim leaving 0.3% non muslim.....the taliban must have raised millions
Please do give me the link where the afghan taliban as a group-govt started to take jizya.

Please do tell us about the choth tax the hindu mahrattas imposed and what it meant for muslims.

 

[WHF]

So in the last 70 odd years you find a couple of examples of individuals but no islamic nations demanding jizya.
In afghnistan 99.7% of the population is muslim leaving 0.3% non muslim.....the taliban must have raised millions
Please do give me the link where the afghan taliban as a group-govt started to take jizya.

Please do tell us about the choth tax the hindu mahrattas imposed and what it meant for muslims.

To say that we have only 2 examples 3 examples 99.7% muslims 98% muslims are not the solution.
U see 60 years back pakistan and afghanistan had much larger non muslim populations why did it shrink, due to unfair treatment to non muslims based on their religion.
How much money is raised is not revelent the intention of jizya is to makelife hell for non muslims so that finally they leave the muslim dominated areas or accept islam.

And as far as choth tax which marathas imposed on muslims, as i said before "hate doesnot yeild love".U imposed jizya they imposed choth..

 

[Ahmad]

U see 60 years back pakistan and afghanistan had much larger non muslim populations why did it shrink, due to unfair treatment to non muslims based on their religion.

Not sure about Pakistan, but in case of Afghanistan that is not true. First we only have had a very small number of non muslims, maybe around 1%. During the last 30 years of war everybody suffered included our non muslim nationals, dont you see how many millions of have migrated in every country around the world? it is not because of Jizya, but because of war, Jizya was never taken from non muslims in Afghanistan. You already know how much i hate the taliban, but trust me teh same taliban treated teh hindos/sikhs alot better than the muslims.