Punjab: Christian woman sentenced to death for blasphemy

[Ahmad]

No one dares...no one dares...no one dares...Pakistanis die from extremist attacks but no one dares...

Niaz is right. You have got little knowledge or understanding of these type of socieites. You are right that people die now, but if somebody dares to touch those laws no matter how wrong they are, trust me sevearl times more people will die as a result of it. I think they need to do something about it with firm decesion, but it has to be gradually.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Soo true. I was talking to my Sisters about the killing of Umm Qirfa by the prophet Mohammed, and they both couldn't handle it, they both got up from their seats and starting shouting like crazy.. they kicked me out of our living room... My sisters are not even religious, so i was shocked at their response to me... they are still not speaking to me properly.

It seems that most people so deeply internalize things that they have been told as young children, that later in life they are unable think about these issues rationally.

 

[Ahmad]

It seems that most people so deeply internalize things that they have been told as young children, that later in life they are unable think about these issues rationally.

When it comes to religion, nothing can be proven or accepted rationally. Religion is about to accept what you are told or taught or whatever you believe in. But problem here is intolerance not what you believe in.

 

[Rajkumar]

wow it gives me creeps to see that a person can get get capital punishment for abusive language towards a religious personality.

just curious , are these blasphemy laws exist in Saudi Arabia?

 

[Rig Vedic]

When it comes to religion, nothing can be proven or accepted rationally. Religion is about to accept what you are told or taught or whatever you believe in. But problem here is intolerance not what you believe in.

Actually Zeeshan was not talking about religion per se, rather about a historical incident related to one lady Umm Qirfa.

In general, people cannot handle anything that contradicts deeply held beliefs about anything.

 

[Solomon2]

Niaz is right. You have got little knowledge or understanding of these type of socieites.

My "knowledge or understanding" has no impact on events, yes?

You are right that people die now, but if somebody dares to touch those laws no matter how wrong they are, trust me sevearl times more people will die as a result of it.

Is death your only measure? Why should people be compelled to choose between living as sheep among wolves, or joining the pack of wolves themselves?

I think they need to do something about it with firm decesion, but it has to be gradually.

Why not suggest a few "gradual" steps you think would help?

 

[Ahmad]

Actually Zeeshan was not talking about religion per se, rather about a historical incident related to one lady Umm Qirfa.

In general, people cannot handle anything that contradicts deeply held beliefs about anything.

history facts can be disputed as well, who knows Pakzeeshan might have been wrong in his accounts? but anyways, getting furious and angry is not the way forward, his sisters must have debated him with strong arguments rather than throwing him out.

 

[Ahmad]

My "knowledge or understanding" has no impact on events, yes?

I didnt get this, are you talking about the impacts on the ground or here online?

Is death your only measure? Why should people be compelled to choose between living as sheep among wolves, or joining the pack of wolves themselves?

Death is not my measure. If you are outnumbered by the wolves, then you will think wisely before doing anything silly, i dont say do nothing, but do things wisely until you find a way out.

Why not suggest a few "gradual" steps you think would help?

approach the religious scholars who are not insane, these people can have massive impact, allocate funding to educate everybody including the mullahs.

 

[Spring Onion]

For the first time, a woman is sentenced to death in Pakistan for this kind of “offence”. The blasphemy law was introduced in 1986 by then Pakistani dictator Zia-ul Haq and since then it has become a tool for discrimination and violence. Part of the Pakistan Penal Code, the law imposes life in prison for defiling the Qur’an and death for insulting Muhammad.




Some of the women workers had reportedly been pressuring Bibi to renounce her Christian faith and accept Islam. During one discussion, Bibi responded by speaking of how Jesus had died on the cross for the sins of humanity and asking the Muslim women what Muhammad had done for them.

The Muslim women took offence and began beating Bibi. Afterwards she was locked in a room. According to Release International, a mob reportedly formed and “violently abused” her and her children.

The charity, which supports persecuted Christians, said that blasphemy charges were brought against Bibi because of pressure from local Muslim leaders.

Release International’s chief executive, Andy Dipper, expressed his shock at Sunday’s ruling.

“Pakistan has crossed a line in passing the death sentence on a woman for blasphemy,” he said.

In addition to the death sentence, Bibi was also fined the equivalent for an unskilled worker of two and a half years’ wages.



.

I would discuss the issue later.


Just wanted to know

1. Who gave the ruling ? No mention of any court neither any authority. The write up has half backed information

2. Which Sunday ? last Sunday ? if yes who again decided that ?


3. What do you mean by

"Bibi was also fined the equivalent for an unskilled worker of two and a half years’ wages.

???????????


This can not be from any court of Pakistan as we have no such rulings.

It seems some local pathetic punchayat outside the law.


4. Please give us more sources for the news. as i dont think so if our media would have ignored it.



Untill you dont answer these which are not at all mentioned in the write up i am afraid i can not comment on the authenticity of the write up.

 

[Solomon2]

I didnt get this, are you talking about the impacts on the ground or here online?

On the ground. I'm pointing that I am not Pakistan's problem, so limiting a discussion to personal criticism of me solves nothing.

Death is not my measure. If you are outnumbered by the wolves, then you will think wisely before doing anything silly, i dont say do nothing, but do things wisely until you find a way out.

You don't "find a way out" to defend against a wolf pack; you call for allies, circle all wagons, and kill the attackers one by one.

...approach the religious scholars who are not insane, these people can have massive impact, allocate funding to educate everybody including the mullahs.

That's the Saudi approach. This means certifying "moderates", essentially entrenching religious authority as a branch of government. It took wars and revolutions to escape such religious controls in Europe and Turkey; why should Pakistan be any different?

 

[Ahmad]

On the ground. I'm pointing that I am not Pakistan's problem, so limiting a discussion to personal criticism of me solves nothing.

You don't "find a way out" to defend against a wolf pack; you call for allies, circle all wagons, and kill the attackers one by one.

Yes and the allies can be those scholars who dont agree with this law, once you have those scholars, the extremists wont dare to attack them.

That's the Saudi approach. This means certifying "moderates", essentially entrenching religious authority as a branch of government. It took wars and revolutions to escape such religious controls in Europe and Turkey; why should Pakistan be any different?

yes off course it takes time and hard efforts, if not this , then you tell me what should be done?

 

[Solomon2]

...Yes and the allies can be those scholars who dont agree with this law, once you have those scholars, the extremists wont dare to attack them.

Oh? Do Sufi and Ahmadi shrines just blow up by themselves? And those are just the most obvious examples.

yes off course it takes time and hard efforts, if not this , then you tell me what should be done?

Perhaps something new. Crossing some sort of line that few Pakistanis dare to cross.

 

[Ahmad]

Perhaps something new. Crossing some sort of line that few Pakistanis dare to cross.

Like what?

Oh? Do Sufi and Ahmadi shrines just blow up by themselves? And those are just the most obvious examples.

i dont know what you mean by this, we all know who is responsible for this. asking this question was strange.

 

[mehru]

Pakistan Christian post is reporting it so i guess there is some truth in this report. Death penalty for the so called blasphemy. It's not fair. She was instigated.


Lahore: November 9, 2010. (PCP) A Christian woman named Asia Bibi was sentenced to death by District and Session Courts after year long trial on accusation of blasphemy filed by Muslim villagers of Ittanwali, where she was residing from generations.

While working in farms with other Muslim women, Asia Bibi was dragged in religious dialogues on June 19, 2009, when Muslim women termed her an “Infidel” and Christianity a “Religion of infidels” and pressed her to embrace Islam.

Asia Bibi who is married and have two children, defended Christianity with her little knowledge and told Muslim women that Christianity is only True religion on which Muslim women made a roar and accused her defiling Prophet Mohammad.

The Muslim men working in nearby fields also gathered and attacked Asia Bibi on which she fled to village in her home. The angry Muslims followed her and took her out of home and started beating her. They tortured her children also but meanwhile some one informed police.

The police took Asia Bibi to police Station and filed FIR against her under section 295-B and C of Pakistan Penal Code but showed it a protective custody to other Christians of Ittanwali village.

Section 295 B and C PPC are subject to life in prison or death sentence but it is first judgment in history of Pakistan when a woman is sentenced to death.

Release International an advocacy group for persecuted Christians around globe is pleading Asia Bibi case and have launched an online petition to ensure justice for her.

Meanwhile, Pakistan Christian Congress PCC have expressed concern on death sentence to Asia Bibi and have appealed to President of Pakistan to withdraw false case against Asia Bibi immediately.

PCC is pressing upon government of Pakistan to repeal blasphemy law and have organized multiple conferences in Pakistan and USA.

Pakistan Christian Post

 

[dabong1]

Soo true. I was talking to my Sisters about the killing of Umm Qirfa by the prophet Mohammed, and they both couldn't handle it, they both got up from their seats and starting shouting like crazy.. they kicked me out of our living room... My sisters are not even religious, so i was shocked at their response to me... they are still not speaking to me properly.

Well if you had got your facts right am pretty sure you sisters would have not been as mad.

1- No doubt her tribe was attacked but that was only a retaliation and not an adventure in itself.

2- She was the leader of the tribe and thus responsible for the attack that caused loss of life and property to Muslims.

3- In wake of the above mentioned reality she and her tribe deserved ppunishment

4- The Prophet (PBUH) sent the expedition to punish the trigger happy enemy but never ordered the killing of Umm Qirfa


5- It was Zaid bin Haritha who ordered her execution and he was the one who had witnessed the crime perpetuated on her orders. Zaid had seen his fellows being killed, merchandise looted and infact he was himself taken off the field barely surviving when the tribe of umm Qirfa earlier attacked them.


5- She was no innocent woman but was as good as a combatant.

6- Her daughter was never raped. there is no proof for that in any source.

7- The Prophet (PBUH) never ordered Umm Qirfa's head to be paraded in the streets of Medina. Infact it was never brought to Medina. No actual source book says anything to that effect.