PTI's Azadi March 14th August 2014 l Updates and debate.

[SQ8]

Oa @Armstrong, yeh kia ho raha hai?

Its about time Armstrong stops his oiled up antics.. and comes out against this discrimination screaming. "My name is butt, and I am not a....a.... whatever you say!!!".
@Hyperion @Dillinger

In all seriousness, what the gullu is going on in this country??

 

[Amaa'n]

Its about time Armstrong stops his oiled up antics.. and comes out against this discrimination screaming. "My name is butt, and I am not a....a.... whatever you say!!!".
@Hyperion @Dillinger

In all seriousness, what the gullu is going on in this country??

lol es ka jawab tou khud Nawaz shariff doondh rha ai ---nobody has a flipping idead, what is going to be the next move, all we get to see is - Action & Reaction

worst of all is - This game is actually having a bad impact on the country economically and socially

 

[Chak Bamu]

Every aspect of Pakistani society is infiltrated by one or other form of religious beliefs. Aero is absolutely right in his observations.

Tell me something, you being a Wahabi, how many times did your dad tell you to read certain verses before going to the bathroom? If, basic things such as the 'right way to do crap' can come under some sort of 'right' or 'wrong' dictate, then you guess how much of religion has to play a role in day to day Pakistani life.

Most of you guys are walking definitions of brain-washed people. You tell me, what should I call you, where 99% of logic would escape you????

@Aeronaut has conveniently ignored Shia support extended to TuQ and (therefore indirectly) to PTI. TuQ is overtly sectarian in practice, in his views, and in the support he derives from his network. Right there with him is Allama Nasir Abbas Secretary General of MWM, who is known for his sectarian efforts (just use Google).

If you and Aero dislike politics of Sectarianism like I do, you would certainly find fault with TuQ, and his supporters such as MWM. But you ignore this nexus because it happens to support IK & PTI. ASWJ had been working behind the scenes to organize against PAT & MWM for the last ten days. Now that they have come out against PAT MWM alliance, Aeronaut has suddenly realized the danger of sectarianism. And you have found occasion to remind us of your typical dislike for religion. Good going people. Where had you been when stuff was simmering? Read the tweets by that b******* Ludhianavi:

M Ahmad Ludhyanvi @MAhmadLudhyanvi · Aug 15
جامعہ تعلیم القرآن اور راجہ بازار جلانے والے جلوس کا سربراہ کالعدم سپاہ محمد کا سرغنہ راجہ ناصر تھا جو آج قادری کا ہمنوا ہے

and

M Ahmad Ludhyanvi @MAhmadLudhyanvi · Aug 15
why government of Pakistan is silent on banned out SMP now MWM?

SMP may not have killed as many people as ASWJ, but they are both moral equivalents. Also, while ASWJ is suspected of receiving funds from KSA (now probably curtailed), SMP / MWM certainly received funds from Iran. Finding fault with ASWJ, while staying quiet about MWM is just a reflection of partisanship.

Hyperion, you have no right to find fault with religious practice when you indirectly support sectarianism that is used to support a cause that you espouse. By calling someone Salafi or Wahabi you can cow or intimidate kids, but do remember the most opinionated Salafist/Wahabist on this forum, Molana Chaudhry Zarvan Ali of Raiwind (who happens to consider democracy and elections as 'Kufr) is a staunch supporter of IK & PTI. If you must find fault with Salafists and PML-N supporters, do find fault with @Zarvan as well. And while you are at it, please do find time to condemn Salafists of JI who are PTI's coalition partners.

Oh, and in case Zarvan or any other salafist neglects to remind you, here is a Sufi reminding you of the dua that you seem not to like. Find fault with it if you can:

 

[Emmie]

Not really. 2016/17 would in fact be the right time, since anyone would understand the timing as apt in light of 2018 elections. This does not mean that pressure can not be built or maintained during 2014/15. Now PTI would have no momentum. If electoral reforms are indeed done, what would PTI have to do when time comes build momentum in the lead up to 2018 elections? This desperate push has some other reasons, not reforms.

And people would take PTI for real on its current stance on rigging? I can imagine how people like you and me would respond - they should have protested and resigned the time they realized elections were rigged; have lived with rigged elections this far and now all of sudden have discovered rigging in elections; IK is pushing things toward brinkmanship just to win impending elections; IK himself had been the part of faulty system how come his demands are justifiable and so forth and so on. No one would buy the logic, reasons and demands PTI is presenting now, not even Mubashir Luqman.

Political parties are never short of issues to exploit, rigging in previous elections isn't one issue on hand to attain momentum. Bad governance of departing government would serve the purpose more than needed, I know my countrymen, I know what convinces them. BTW Who would take a risk and push things this far to gain a momentum in election campaign?

 

[Devil Soul]

Nadeem Malik ‏@nadeemmalik 18s
As a welcome development, which I appreciate, Ch Nisar removed few containers from Islamabad's entry/exit routes

 

[Aslan]

@Aeronaut has conveniently ignored Shia support extended to TuQ and (therefore indirectly) to PTI. TuQ is overtly sectarian in practice, in his views, and in the support he derives from his network. Right there with him is Allama Nasir Abbas Secretary General of MWM, who is known for his sectarian efforts (just use Google).

If you and Aero dislike politics of Sectarianism like I do, you would certainly find fault with TuQ, and his supporters such as MWM. But you ignore this nexus because it happens to support IK & PTI. ASWJ had been working behind the scenes to organize against PAT & MWM for the last ten days. Now that they have come out against PAT MWM alliance, Aeronaut has suddenly realized the danger of sectarianism. And you have found occasion to remind us of your typical dislike for religion. Good going people. Where had you been when stuff was simmering? Read the tweets by that b******* Ludhianavi:

M Ahmad Ludhyanvi @MAhmadLudhyanvi · Aug 15
جامعہ تعلیم القرآن اور راجہ بازار جلانے والے جلوس کا سربراہ کالعدم سپاہ محمد کا سرغنہ راجہ ناصر تھا جو آج قادری کا ہمنوا ہے

and

M Ahmad Ludhyanvi @MAhmadLudhyanvi · Aug 15
why government of Pakistan is silent on banned out SMP now MWM?

SMP may not have killed as many people as ASWJ, but they are both moral equivalents. Also, while ASWJ is suspected of receiving funds from KSA (now probably curtailed), SMP / MWM certainly received funds from Iran. Finding fault with ASWJ, while staying quiet about MWM is just a reflection of partisanship.

Hyperion, you have no right to find fault with religious practice when you indirectly support sectarianism that is used to support a cause that you espouse. By calling someone Salafi or Wahabi you can cow or intimidate kids, but do remember the most opinionated Salafist/Wahabist on this forum, Molana Chaudhry Zarvan Ali of Raiwind (who happens to consider democracy and elections as 'Kufr) is a staunch supporter of IK & PTI. If you must find fault with Salafists and PML-N supporters, do find fault with @Zarvan as well. And while you are at it, please do find time to condemn Salafists of JI who are PTI's coalition partners.

Oh, and in case Zarvan or any other salafist neglects to remind you, here is a Sufi reminding you of the dua that you seem not to like. Find fault with it if you can:

View attachment 44553

Very nicely put, and rightfully so.

 

[Emmie]

Unfortunately for his politics, IK was a fast bowler who operates in quick session and didn't possess patience in the first place....for a raw political student like me......IK should never ever disclose publically at least till the end that he is personal with NS and actually want to removes him from premiership, his share arrogance lead him to this day that he finds himself in a totally blind ally.

Agreed! He's quite impatient and often gets carried away. Perhaps he has taken his maximalist position too early, he should have kept it as a card to play in future. I think he's harping on the tune of resignation just to bring the government on table on his terms, wouldn't have gone ahead with negotiations if demand number 1(PM resignation) was a prerequisite.

 

[Chak Bamu]

And people would take PTI for real on its current stance on rigging? I can imagine how people like you and me would respond - they should have protested and resigned the time they realized elections were rigged; have lived with rigged elections this far and now all of sudden have discovered rigging in elections; IK is pushing things toward brinkmanship just to win impending elections; IK himself had been the part of faulty system how come his demands are justifiable and so forth and so on. No one would buy the logic, reasons and demands PTI is presenting now, not even Mubashir Luqman.

Political parties are never short of issues to exploit, rigging in previous elections isn't one issue on hand to attain momentum. Bad governance of departing government would serve the purpose more than needed, I know my countrymen, I know what convinces them. BTW Who would take a risk and push things this far to gain a momentum in election campaign?

The opinion that I presented implied that the movement at that time would be developed as appropriate for 2016/17, and that too if electoral reforms were neglected, or not go far enough.

 

[Aslan]

And people would take PTI for real on its current stance on rigging? I can imagine how people like you and me would respond - they should have protested and resigned the time they realized elections were rigged; have lived with rigged elections this far and now all of sudden have discovered rigging in elections; IK is pushing things toward brinkmanship just to win impending elections; IK himself had been the part of faulty system how come his demands are justifiable and so forth and so on. No one would buy the logic, reasons and demands PTI is presenting now, not even Mubashir Luqman.

Political parties are never short of issues to exploit, rigging in previous elections isn't one issue on hand to attain momentum. Bad governance of departing government would serve the purpose more than needed, I know my countrymen, I know what convinces them. BTW Who would take a risk and push things this far to gain a momentum in election campaign?

The issue that u find with most of the people supporting pti specially that the moment u present them with an argument that they don't want to hear. Name calling and mud slinging starts.
People who are following him blindly and going on this not paying toll at the plazas and calling it missions accomplished. What do they think it will get them.
Do they really think that this will bring change. Really.
If we want to change we have to change, no change can come if we don't want to put things right. We will rig our meters, bribe the cops, brake the line, abuse the system. And then complian about the same bad system that we ourself are responsible for.

Who is Nawaz shareef or zardari or Ik. They are not some supper human entities. But reflections of our own corrupt society. For as long as we will not change our selves. Nothing no revolution of any kind will change a thing.

 

[Emmie]

The opinion that I presented implied that the movement at that time would be developed as appropriate for 2016/17, and that too if electoral reforms were neglected, or not go far enough.

I beg to differ on the opinion. How would you morally vindicate the decision of resignation from assembly/assemblies? You can't exploit reasons which have lost their validity.

 

[Viper0011.]

In such case they will require any kartoos as they will themself act as ICBMs

All this while Army will keep monitoring and ensure that all pieces of machinery are put in right place. As COAS will not be the chief executive of Pakistan, he will not have any issues of removing wardi or not. The next in line will continue to undertake job of monitor.

In my opinion if a procedure is set for the position of President, whereby one of the armed forces chief is elevated to the position of President of Pakistan(can be in rotation for all three forces), with powers of 58 (2)(b) then we can get rid of these political issues for ever. Why?
1. Armed forces are non political and President of Pakistan is a non political post.
2. Tenure of President is fixed and there is only one term.

Or there should be presidential form of government who selects his cabinet and runs the affairs of country and NA's job restricted to legislation only. Like it is being practiced in USA. there is a set procedure through which people are elevated to Congress and Senate, each state is independent and at no one time complete composition of legislative assembly is changed. This ensure consistency of policies.

Reference Constitution of Pakistan 1973 Article 62

“A person shall not be qualified to be elected or chosen as a member of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament) unless:-
(a) he is a citizen of Pakistan;
(b) he is, in the case of the National Assembly, not less than twenty-five years of age and
is enrolled as voter in any electoral roll in-
(i) any part of Pakistan, for election to a general seat or a seat reserved for non-
Muslim; and
(ii) any area in the Province from which he seeks membership for election to a
seat reserved for women. Previous 62(b)
(c) he is, in the case of Senate, not less than thirty years of age and is enrolled as a voter in any area in a Province or, as the case may be, the Federal Capital or the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, from where he seeks membership;”


On the contrary, Constitution of Pakistan gives a free hand to opportunists.

@WebMaster @Aeronaut @batmannow @orangzaib @bartva @Sedqal

Are you INSANE? (1) you are trying to quote stuff from the constitution which your retarded leader has ALREADY violated, including his OATH! So this document called the constitution to him doesn't exist or is invalid at this point. WHY use it then?
Wait, JUST like he's said the system shouldn't existed but he's still a PART of it in KPK? BTW, HIS KPK GOVERNMENT Was ALSO a gesture from NS. So in his crazy, fogged up mind, the NS government doesn't exist due to being illegal. So his government also doesn't exist as he got it through NS.....??

Quoting crap from different web sites and legal cases and mixing them like a cocktail proves your "case" that no one including the Supreme Court or the High Courts or the Media knows about? Tell me where does the constitution tells AN ELECTED MEMBER of NATIONAL ASSEMBLY to do Civil Unrest WHILE he's under the OATH???? Violating constitution is a death penalty under pretty much all constitutions.
You conveniently over looked the ENTIRE situation and mixed crap from Pakistan to India to Arizona WITHOUT having the legal expertise to first analyze the CASE (which no one really knows about as it in IK's head only), and then provide evidence and defense.

You are justifying the the LAST resort in your statements (Coupe is unconstitutional in any democracy and so is the Civil Unrest). You also didn't listen other criterion for the elected officials, if a current of future member LIES to people and to the government, he's ineligible to run for the office. Taliban Khan's ENTIRE strategy is based on lying to people.

You have absolutely NO idea about how a democratic system whether it be in the US or elsewhere. And you've quoted stuff that's wrong. There is a LOT more to it to the US Senators then just law making.

Plus, 20K people blackmailing a system, causing economic disturbance and threatening people's lives don't really need to be talking about Democracy. You are a little Taliban gang trying to gang up on an entire country through lying and conducting illegal politics. But yet, you have labor that's too busy trying to tell people bullshi*t is actually right and legal when its not.

Try not to waste others time in writing these cocktail of legal cases to justify Civil Unrest, abuse and violation of a constitution and destruction of an economy by 20K dancers. This is a little modern militia trying to take over a country with a 20k population. Not worth anything around a discussion. If IK was protesting at the Parliament Door with his few members, that would be democratic. Not threats, not by violating the constitution and definitely not by instigating terrorism.
MOFO is so stu*pid that yesterday the same government he called unconstitutional and "We will NEVER talk to them" ....now he's sending his people for negotiations. Speaks volume for his mental relatedness.
When you go through law school and actually become an attorney, we'll talk. Till then, you shouldn't be talking about the law and democracy that you and your leader is abusing for weeks now.

 

[Aslan]

I beg to differ on the opinion. How would you morally vindicate the decision of resignation from assembly/assemblies? You can't exploit reasons which have lost their validness.

Even the resignations are nothing more then another tactic to add pressure to the situation. They waited for this long and that too after Friday prayer when the speaker wouldn't be there to begin with.

 

[Emmie]

The issue that u find with most of the people supporting pti specially that the moment u present them with an argument that they don't want to hear. Name calling and mud slinging starts.
People who are following him blindly and going on this not paying toll at the plazas and calling it missions accomplished. What do they think it will get them.
Do they really think that this will bring change. Really.
If we want to change we have to change, no change can come if we don't want to put things right. We will rig our meters, bribe the cops, brake the line, abuse the system. And then complian about the same bad system that we ourself are responsible for.

Who is Nawaz shareef or zardari or Ik. They are not some supper human entities. But reflections of our own corrupt society. For as long as we will not change our selves. Nothing no revolution of any kind will change a thing.

Couldn't agree more on this. But this isn't the point, the point is if electoral reforms is the purpose behind this move then this is the right time to ask.

Even the resignations are nothing more then another tactic to add pressure to the situation. They waited for this long and that too after Friday prayer when the speaker wouldn't be there to begin with.

This is what I stated earlier, subject here is resignation.

Agreed! He's quite impatient and often gets carried away. Perhaps he has taken his maximalist position too early, he should have kept it as a card to play in future. I think he's harping on the tune of resignation just to bring the government on table on his terms, wouldn't have gone ahead with negotiations if demand number 1(PM resignation) was a prerequisite.

 

[Chak Bamu]

I beg to differ on the opinion. How would you morally vindicate the decision of resignation from assembly/assemblies? You can't exploit reasons which have lost their validity.

I think I've failed to explain my opinion properly. It does not matter in any case - it is a hypothetical scenario.

 

[saiyan0321]

Javed hashmi saying that pm should resign and should make a new member as pm. That wouldnt exactly change anything at all as N would still have all the strength. only a puppet would be in place of nawaz. TBH nawaz should do this and then focus on next election PM. ofcourse i am talking in the sense of ending this nightmare that is hurting us both economically and socially in the world.