Proud Moment for Pakistan. House of Sharifs Have Now Made it to Netflix

[TheSolution]

Pakistan never won a war, never had a war of independence, and got everything handed down to it on a silver platter by the British. Can’t expect anything from a country with that kind of history.

Makes sense, war refines a group of people through rapid natural selection, only the most capable in the environment are able to survive to reproduce. It weeds out the less capable and refines the positive survival characteristics. It creates a prideful history being one of the reasons for invoking patrotism which in return leads to loyalty to the state. When you have things handed to you on a silver platter, there's no refinement of good qualities.

(About the wars throughout Pakistan's history, you must also take into account the obvious advantage of India, in that context Pakistan did decently well and showed resilience)

 

[Olympus81]

Interesting conversation apart from the self flagellation of one’s own culture.

The Mughals have an interesting history. Babar, was from Fergana a city in present day Central Asia. As the Mughal dynasty passed down they became less and less Central Asians and more and more Hindustanized. Subsequent Mughals married Rajputs and other locals. Aurangzeb features were very desi and that was the peak of Mughal’s rule.

The 1857 war of independence that failed was a watershed moment. Muslims (from all ethnic groups) joined the fight along with Hindus to send a message to the Brits that enough is enough. The movement was suppressed by the British but it had an impact by giving birth to an idea of a nation state which many intellectuals took further.

1947, the British just got tired and knew times were changing and colonialism was not sustainable. They probably ploughed enough wealth out of the subcontinent and I believe the WW2 also helped with the decision of the Brits.

Point is, you cannot see 1947 as a one off event. The movement started in 1857. Hence, alot of sacrifices were made from 1857 to 1947 to achieve what Pakistan and India achieved.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Faqir of Ipi did it twice - once with the British and then with Pakistan.

So while eventual dismantling of the attachment with Afghanistan was pushed at - going back it seems like one partition of Punjab was done and the other of FATA and Afghanistan upheld.

What’s funny is that a lot of people on this forum want to somehow separate the histories and entanglements of the area of ex-FATA, specifically Waziristan, has to Afghanistan.

Historically, anytime a war or rebellion happened in Afghanistan, Waziristan was always involved.

In the 1919 Anglo-Afghan war, Faqir Ipi also did his part by leading a guerilla front against the British.

In the tribal revolts of Paktia against Zahir Shah during the 1940s, Faqir Ipi took part in it as he was an Amanullah loyalist.

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, ex fata and Waziristan sent many of their man to take part. Same with the American invasion.

You cannot separate the history, language, and culture of an ethnicity by a British made line that was largely porous and most recently tightened.

Add in the culture and tradition of revenge and the Pakistani state will never be forgiven in their eyes for selling them out.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

(About the wars throughout Pakistan's history, you must also take into account the obvious advantage of India, in that context Pakistan did decently well and showed resilience)

To take things into perspective. In an Olympic competition who gets the most recognition the Gold medal or the silver medal. Even if the silver medalist was really close the gold medalist will always get credit as he still won.

Pakistanis should stop making excuses for losing all wars by saying oh we did good. We lost. Srinagar is not in Pakistan. Bangladesh exists. Even if we did “well for our size” those 2 facts remain. We lost every war. As soon as Pakistanis get rid of loser mentality then maybe we can salvage SOME success.

 

[TheSolution]

To take things into perspective. In an Olympic competition who gets the most recognition the Gold medal or the silver medal. Even if the silver medalist was really close the gold medalist will always get credit as he still won.

Pakistanis should stop making excuses for losing all wars by saying oh we did good. We lost. Srinagar is not in Pakistan. Bangladesh exists. Even if we did “well for our size” those 2 facts remain. We lost every war. As soon as Pakistanis get rid of loser mentality then maybe we can salvage SOME success.

Of course I agree with that, just an undeniable fact. History only tends to look at the victor, not often do they care to check which side had more soldiers or who had a position of advantage.

Acknowledging this inherent disadvantage though, if there is no meaningful cultural revolution in Pakistan with real meritocracy put into place, Pakistan's days will be numbered as a corrupt dictatorship.

 

[SQ8]

What’s funny is that a lot of people on this forum want to somehow separate the histories and entanglements of the area of ex-FATA, specifically Waziristan, has to Afghanistan.

Historically, anytime a war or rebellion happened in Afghanistan, Waziristan was always involved.

In the 1919 Anglo-Afghan war, Faqir Ipi also did his part by leading a guerilla front against the British.

In the tribal revolts of Paktia against Zahir Shah during the 1940s, Faqir Ipi took part in it as he was an Amanullah loyalist.

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, ex fata and Waziristan sent many of their man to take part. Same with the American invasion.

You cannot separate the history, language, and culture of an ethnicity by a British made line that was largely porous and most recently tightened.

Add in the culture and tradition of revenge and the Pakistani state will never be forgiven in their eyes for selling them out.

In that same vein - the Sharifs represent a section of culture and traditions which the PTI cannot replace. The same reason Shah Mahmood Qureshi is considered a holy man and Bhutto a saint.

For that matter I remember accompanying a family member to a MQM event where all these bigwigs were present during the time when the establishment started pushing the MQM-P away from London. And the toad in London was speaking and made his usual whine about how he was being mistreated and abandoned by people including FS, K Siddiqui and other leadership cadre.. and as “Bhai” started crying all the blue shirt workers started bawling. I am watching men from 28-45.. not the sheepish leadership but these workers crying at this idiots audible BS whine but they were genuine at it to the best I could tell.

After which the toad started making accusations at the leadership by name and the these workers took FS , Siddiqui and literally beat them to the floor kicking and punching them. That was this dramas power over supposedly grown intelligent men.

The same applies to many scenario outside of Pakistan too, but the key aspect is that culture and traditions will trump common sense and wish for lawful rule and rights until both education and exposure outweigh it in the general population

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Look forward to watching it and will take some snapshots for nooni toons in denial