Proof of Indian Involvement in Waziristan found: Army

[toxic_pus]

And this was Indian proof against Pakistan. decide for yourself which one stand a chance in the court of law. I think you guys should come out of double standards

What about the two most important pieces of the puzzle - Ajmal 'Amar Singh' Qasab and transcripts of telephone conversation. You do know, don't you, that those items in your images are secondary evidence, not the primary ones.

Nice try though.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

................... Wait some time before this is investigated further. This just happened yesterday and already they are denying everything based on only a HANDFUL of proof. This is only a FRACTION of full proof.

I agree. We will wait for the full proof.

The problem I foresee is twofold: one, we do not hear anything more on the subject. Which may or may not be conclusive.

Two, just as some Pakistanis denied some responsibility for 26/11, and continue to do so, what is to stop Indians from doing the same thing regardless of proof? Thus:

Indian Ammo: Does not prove a thing.
Indian Literature: Does not prove a thing.
Travel records: How do you plan on proving it? A bus ticket?

Etc, etc.

I don't wish to belabour the point; but there must be consensus on what taken together constitutes more or less 'sound evidence' in either country (there will never be '100% proof'). At least here on this forum, if not elsewhere, among people who are debating.

Or we can continue talking at each other.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

To add to that, I do not have the answers; just asking.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I agree. We will wait for the full proof.

The problem I foresee is twofold: one, we do not hear anything more on the subject. Which may or may not be conclusive.

Two, just as some Pakistanis denied some responsibility for 26/11, and continue to do so, what is to stop Indians from doing the same thing regardless of proof? Thus:

Indian Ammo: Does not prove a thing.
Indian Literature: Does not prove a thing.
Travel records: How do you plan on proving it? A bus ticket?

Etc, etc.

I don't wish to belabour the point; but there must be consensus on what taken together constitutes more or less 'sound evidence' in either country (there will never be '100% proof'). At least here on this forum, if not elsewhere, among people who are debating.

Or we can continue talking at each other.

Amazing a few Cosmetics are a Good proof but wht we have is not enough, u want us to execute Hafiz on the fact that u have got some Cosmetics made in Pak, & some Telephone calls & u ppl keep on Changing the stance once Lakhvi is master mind & then Hafiz Saeed
where as on the other hand I don't know What are so many Consulates doing along Pak Afghan border, what is Indian Ammo doing in SWA, are Indian weapons available in open market?
Are those Taliban ppl fan of Indian Literature of Sita & Ram,
Cant say anything about travel Documents though

what kinda Proof u want?
anything in Indian hand is solid irrefutable proof but what Pak has is BS
in the End TTP is not getting weapons, Explosives money & all from Heavens, There's got to be a SOURCE

 

[Energon]

Great - so money is being pumped into Baluchistan, according to Indian officials who spoke with her, for what?

Reconstruction?

Don't know of any Indian sponsored 'reconstruction projects' in Baluchistan so the only logical alternative must be 'destruction'.

Agno, this isn't what she's saying. She's primarily referring to HUMINT, which isn't synonymous with promotion of terrorism or armed subversive conflict.

HUMINT of course is the most basic and standard approach by any government's intelligence agency. In the greater scheme of things, the Gulf states and other common migratory grounds for South Asians such as Singapore and Malaysia probably still serve as the primary source of human intelligence for most intel agencies (based on the sheer variety in the sample size). Balochis and Sindhis have been courted by Indian intelligence agencies for quite some time, but there has been no direct assistance given to either one of the separatist movements even at the height of Pakistan's turmoil of the early 70s. Similarly Pakistan too I'm sure has sizable human intelligence assets all over India, they aren't all terrorists by default.

And to be honest Fair does clarify her position... (mostly because she has been harangued by belligerent Indians and Pakistanis at every lecture and symposium she has participated in since the round table discussion where all of this started.

I am fairly confident that every consulate in Zahedan - and I believe Pakistan has one as well - are not issuing a lot of visas. What I actually meant was something relatively innocuous that the Pakistanis picked up, took out of context and blew out of proportion, and that is that competent intelligence agencies cultivate assets. They have listening posts. They are there to gather information.

I would be surprised if consulates in countries that have competent intelligence services are not doing this all over the place. This is a relatively quotidian activity that virtually all consulates engage in. I meant something far more banal and yet benign, and quite frankly commonplace than what was attributed to me.

I never said there was active support for terrorism, that was something that the Pakistanis attributed to me.

AKS: What did Indian officials mean when they told you they were pumping in money into Balochistan?

CCF: "It was intended to cultivate assets. That's all I ever implied. I have no evidence for explicit support for terrorism. There is nothing in my Foreign Affairs comments that actually says that.

But when you have analysts say India is doing nothing, I don't think that is helpful because I don't believe that is true. India has a competent intelligence agency; India is doing what every other country that is involved in Afghanistan is doing - that is, developing information, developing contacts, trying to assert itself politically. So when people say "Oh, India is not doing anything," that is really not true."

Also, its not as if the state dept and the pentagon haven't looked into this issue. If there was truly something substantial in regards to India supporting an armed insurgency it wouldn't have gone unmentioned.

 

[iPhone]

proof.

Indian Ammo: Does not prove a thing.
Indian Literature: Does not prove a thing.
Travel records: How do you plan on proving it? A bus ticket?
.

why? why doesn't indian ammo in waziristaan not prove a thing? maybe to you it doesn't, you're in full denial.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Amazing a few Cosmetics are a Good proof but wht we have is not enough, u want us to execute Hafiz on the fact that u have got some Cosmetics made in Pak, & some Telephone calls & u ppl keep on Changing the stance once Lakhvi is master mind & then Hafiz Saeed
where is on the other hand I don't know What are so many Consulates doing along Pak Afghan border, what is Indian Ammo doing in SWA, are Indian weapons available in open market?
Are those Taliban ppl fan of Indian Literature of Sita & Ram,
Cant say anything about travel Documents though

what kinda Proof u want?
anything in Indian hand is solid irrefutable proof but what Pak is BS
in the End TTP is not getting weapons, Explosives money & all from Heavens, There's got to be a SOURCE

why? why doesn't indian ammo in waziristaan not prove a thing? maybe to you it doesn't, you're in full denial.

Perhaps both of you have misunderstood what I have said. So I'll restate in a different way.

My POV is that there should be a common, mutually acceptable basis for proof. When I say that 'Indian ammo does not mean a thing', that is not necessarily what I believe. It is what I foresee as an Indian response.

In other words, we are likely to get bogged down into minutiae and definitions, where nothing is proof. For either side.

In the spirit of fairness, therefore, both sides - at least here - may need to agree on proof.

If Pakistani weapons in India are 'proof', so is vice versa. If literature is proof, so is the reverse.

Do you see what I'm saying? It should hold true for both sides.

Because, otherwise, instead of talking to each other we will talk at each other. And no one is going to learn anything except confirm our respective prejudices.

 

[Spring Onion]

Perhaps both of you have misunderstood what I have said. So I'll restate in a different way.

My POV is that there should be a common, mutually acceptable basis for proof. When I say that 'Indian ammo does not mean a thing', that is not necessarily what I believe. It is what I foresee as an Indian response.

In other words, we are likely to get bogged down into minutiae and definitions, where nothing is proof. For either side.

In the spirit of fairness, therefore, both sides - at least here - may need to agree on proof.

The problem is for Indians a toothpast made in Pakistan is proof but weapons made in India is not.

Now as you said if the toothpast can be a proof against Pakistan then a weapon should be stronger candidate for proof against India


And if not then we all should accept that India was doing a psy-ops against Pakistan for last many decades and now Pakistanis have started learning the art too.



If Pakistani weapons in India are 'proof', so is vice versa. If literature is proof, so is the reverse.

Do you see what I'm saying? It should hold true for both sides.

Because, otherwise, instead of talking to each other we will talk at each other. And no one is going to learn anything except confirm our respective prejudices.

The problem is for Indians a toothpast made in Pakistan is proof but weapons made in India is not.

Now as you said if the toothpast can be a proof against Pakistan then a weapon should be stronger candidate for proof against India


And if not then we all should accept that India was doing a psy-ops against Pakistan for last many decades and now Pakistanis have started learning the art too.

 

[trickey]

"It was intended to cultivate assets."

And what do you think those 'Assets being cultivated' are doing in Baluchistan? The same thing the ones in East Pakistan were doing. Quite obviously Indian officials are not going to admit that 'we are helping the BLF kill school principals and teachers to intimidate the schools from playing the Pakistani anthem'.

CF's explanation indicates a desire to tread the middle ground, but her explanations further establish the point that Indian is interfering in Baluchistan, and that the Indian consulates are not located in Afghanistan for the purpose of 'visas' or 'reconstruction'.

Thanks for posting that though.

You are making the assumption that India conducts it's foreign policy in exactly the same way as Pakistan does.

 

[manojb]

What about the two most important pieces of the puzzle - Ajmal 'Amar Singh' Qasab and transcripts of telephone conversation. You do know, don't you, that those items in your images are secondary evidence, not the primary ones.

Nice try though.

I think some people here are deliberately ignoring above solid proofs. I hope they are aware of Yamaha Engine. What the heck even pak court has ruled 26/11 terrorist as absconder.

 

[Spring Onion]

I think some people here are deliberately ignoring above solid proofs. I hope they are aware of Yamaha Engine. What the heck even pak court has ruled 26/11 terrorist as absconder.

You got one alive and still confused to punish him or not.

So be sure its not just one sided affair nor so simple or the way Indians claim.

 

[toxic_pus]

You got one alive and still confused to punish him or not.

You see the confusion because....?

 

[Spring Onion]

You see the confusion because....?

I would like to answer it but in some other thread as debating Indian intentions or role viz a viz Mumbai attacks would derail this thread and is off topic.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

The problem is for Indians a toothpast made in Pakistan is proof but weapons made in India is not.

Now as you said if the toothpast can be a proof against Pakistan then a weapon should be stronger candidate for proof against India


And if not then we all should accept that India was doing a psy-ops against Pakistan for last many decades and now Pakistanis have started learning the art too.

Ok, we are arguing in circles.

So lets make a beginning. What is proof for you? Remember it works both ways.

 

[Chanakyaa]

The biggest terrorist in the world is*"India" who is sponsoring terrorism in it neighbour country.Once again time has come to ignite the fire in InDian Punjab,Kashmir jharkand,Assam etc etc.I think this idiom was created for only India"Latooon ke bhooot batoon se nahi mantey".

Shayad Ise Lie Kashmir ki hi "Rukhsana" ne Baato se naho Golio se "Non Indian" Millitants aour Aur unke AAkao ke Mansubo ko Khatam Kar Dala.

India can be "laaton k bhoot" my friend as you say but only God knows what phrase to use for the plight of the people of Pakistan where suicide bombers from Taliban, once created,funded by Their own Intelligence agency ISI, attack and kill hundreds each week.

They Sacrifice their lives in pakistan, for nothing , they come to Mumbai and their country doesent recognise Kasab... again sacrifice wasted...
Mere Bhai..."Laaton ke Bhoot" ve hai Jo Kasab ko Terrorist Kasab bane dete hai..
ve Chain se Sote he..
Hum Ap Rote hai.. kyoki Apke aour Hamare Apne Kabhi Mumbai me to Kabhi Peshavar m Marte Hai.