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Proof of Indian Involvement in Waziristan found: Army

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This really doesent work !! You know what India had been trying since 2 decades to convince UN about pakistans involvement in destabilizing its internal situations, without any luck.

These UN guys are pretty useless. Hadn't it been for 9/11 and US taking islamic terrorism personally, and also the change in regional US strategy to make friends with India, that India would have been still whining and complaining the same old story even today.

Right now there is simply no sympathy towards pakistan in the international community and its War on terror is been seen only as an attempt to clean the fi!th it created by itself to fulfill its short sighted objectives.

What I see is, you would be finding more and more evidences like this in future but India and world (read US, UN) would simply not entertain it as it had been in case of India for 2 decades.

The effectiveness of the UN is not in question here. The point was to establish the basics of the Indian involvement in the region which is constantly being ignored by the west. The only reality the US and her allies see in the region is the Taliban Insurgency in Pakistan. Their ignorance towards the foreign involvement in "Pakistan's War" is temporary. Pakistan is getting the job done by engaging the TTP head on and that's all they are concerned about right now because it serves their interest and that's why our "evidence" does not hold any weight in the eyes of the western powers.
 
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AM, I'm not sure I understand your argument; rather, I'm not sure there is one to be made. You are speculating about the 'true meaning' of an open ended statement made by someone else (an inherently dubious undertaking). Except now she has gone ahead and actually expounded upon the meaning of that open ended sentence. What you or I or anyone else thinks she meant is of no consequence; her interpretation is the only one that matters. She hasn't changed her original statement, she has clarified it. Even if she is backtracking we will never know.

This is an open and shut case. She gets the final word.
My point is that CF was quite specific in how she described the conversation with Indian officials - her clarification does not suggest she was wrong in attributing those comments to Indian officials, just that she herself was not implying any more than that.

My argument was that regardless of what CF interpreted those comments as implying, the fact that Baluchistan was specifically referred to as being a target of Indian funds raises obvious questions as to why and whom.

If the context was that of the operations of any other intelligence agency, then it was not really worth mentioning - we don't need CF to tell us that the Indians recruit contacts in Pakistan, or vice versa. Nor would one expect Indian officials to point out the obvious - instead Baluchistan was mentioned with specificity.

Is it a smoking gun? No - but it nonetheless raises questions, especially when taken in conjucntion with everything else.
US's relationship with Israel has nothing to do with India, they are inherently dissimilar, as is the context. To conclude that just because the US does something with Israel it must hold true for India is pure conjecture and slides dangerously along the slippery slope of the US-hindu-zionist conspiracy against Pakistan. There is no evidence whatsoever that the US' relationship with India is the way you portray it.
I am not suggesting the US realtionship with India mirrors that with Israel, nor that there is any connection there - trying to inject 'Hindu-zionist conspiracy' in here is nothing but a strawman.

What I am pointing out is that the US will not jeapordize its perceived national interests for the sake of erring on the side of what is right, as it has illustrated in protecting Israel even when Israel's crimes are obvious.

In the case of India we already have one clear instance of such deference in order to protect US interests - the removal of Kashmir from the table despite Obama's commitment to it in his campaign. Accusing India of supporting terrorism publicly would go even further than talking about Kashmir. Hence my point that the US cannot be considered a credible party to address Pakistani grievances, publicly atleast.
 
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India dont know it that they are being used by the USA against Pakistan and China!

India will realize that after all is over!
 
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It appears, that POF manufactures 81 mm shells, which look very much like the 'Indian Ammo'.

b4f14d59d248523401fdb726385740f9.jpg

Link to the original image

Actually 81mm shells are pretty similar looking.

Iran



The POF round (in your image) seems slightly different from the ones captured. The base on the ones captured seem to flow with the body of the round, and the perforations go all the way up the neck to where the 'warhead' starts to bulge.

The POF round appears to have a metal base that does not flow with the shell body, and with the perforations not quite going all the way to the 'warhead bulge' (excuse the really poor attempts at describing the ammo in layman's terms).

Here is the POF produced 81mm HE round from their website - clearly different it would appear.

 
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India dont know it that they are being used by the USA against Pakistan and China!

India will realize that after all is over!

Why do you think the ammunition were of US Origin.

Please stop beating around the bush you will find your own countrymen inside. Then self denial and putting blame on non state actors but remember its your own country this time.
 
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The effectiveness of the UN is not in question here. The point was to establish the basics of the Indian involvement in the region which is constantly being ignored by the west. The only reality the US and her allies see in the region is the Taliban Insurgency in Pakistan. Their ignorance towards the foreign involvement in "Pakistan's War" is temporary. Pakistan is getting the job done by engaging the TTP head on and that's all they are concerned about right now because it serves their interest and that's why our "evidence" does not hold any weight in the eyes of the western powers.

Exactly my point sir. But also what I forsee is that west would continue to ignore Indian involvement in pak. I dont think US is just waiting for pakistan to hand over the evidences before doing anything significant to stop India meddling in pakistans internal affairs, and is competent enough to realise whats going on in the region, on its own.

And I am not discussing effectiveness of UN only but also the whole international community in general. In that perspective, I mean that no one would do anything for pakistan unless it suits their own interest, even if pakistan shows whatever amount of evidence to them..
 
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Actually 81mm shells are pretty similar looking.
Thanks for that clarification. It appears, then, that alleged 'Indian' 82 mm shells, of that shape, are pretty rare. While 81 mm shells of that shape are pretty common, minor differences aside.
 
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Ministry of National Defense Republic of Lithuania :: News News archives News archive 2007 News archive (2007 - 07)


It looks like exact similar kind of 82mm motar shells being used by Afghan Taliban in Afghanistan.

Click on the pic that appears on the original news post for an bigger image ...u can see single rim on the mid section of the cylinder with 82mm HE written in yellow color below that rim just like on the alleged indian ammo.

Did india provide ammunition to Afghan Taliban who blow up our consulates in Kabul?? no ,not possible.
 
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It had to happen eventually. The only way to justify this operation in the eyes of Pakistani public is to blame it all on India.
Otherwise, the local press and the mullahs/ Jamaat-e-Islami/ numerous Islamist parties will continue to accuse Pakistani Army of doing the work of Amreeka.

However, if it turns out that India is behind all this, its perfect. The Islamist parties are immediately on the back foot, because they cannot support TTP anymore without being branded Indian agents.
 
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Actually 81mm shells are pretty similar looking.

Iran



The POF round (in your image) seems slightly different from the ones captured. The base on the ones captured seem to flow with the body of the round, and the perforations go all the way up the neck to where the 'warhead' starts to bulge.

The POF round appears to have a metal base that does not flow with the shell body, and with the perforations not quite going all the way to the 'warhead bulge' (excuse the really poor attempts at describing the ammo in layman's terms).

Here is the POF produced 81mm HE round from their website - clearly different it would appear.

India does not manufactures 82 mm mortars

Indian Ordnance Factories: Ammunition, Explosives, Propellants & Chemicals
 
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The existence of weapons and other equipment from India on its own is not evidence of Indian State involvement, and neither is the arrest of an Indian national (if true).


Believe me, if allegedly there is any Indian involvement, it wont be non-state actors, as India does not have a community of hostile non-state actors (like LET, JEM, HM of pak) that would have the guts and resources to fuel such a kind of insurgency. There is no non-state infrastructure in India that could be so much potent so as to provide Millitary weapons, and other stuffs to tribal insurgents.

AM, if you are trying to bail out GOI here in your allegation, I would see this as an attempt to act elite and legitimise zardarian concept of "non-state actors". Remember no non-state actor can pose such a grave threat without active involvement of hostile states, be it in Mumbai or as alleged in SW. Such non-state actors may have a wide appreciation in masses, may be high on ideology but they simply cant posses sophisticated millitary hardware and other such resources to destabilize neighbouring country without the knowlege of the state.

Dont you know, mumbai terrorists were escorted by a pakistan naval ship till indian waters? Do you believe that the Navy just never cared when one of their ships went missing while ferrying the terrorists to India??
 
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^Non state actors? Nonsense.

If there is Indian involvement, its state involvement. There are no terrorist groups running amok on Indian soil (apart from the Pakistan backed ones).
 
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Do we need to prove any ting ? Indians talk proudly about 1971 with there coward act. We know they will take advantge of any chance they get to harm Pakistan.

We dont need to prove to any one. We know what Indians are doing , just support 24 movments in India who wants there own state. Start with Khalistan and we have solved most of problem
 
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Why, since Chinese lettering is clearly visible on some of the weapons in the photos, doesn't Pakistan blame China for supporting the Taliban?
 
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Why, since Chinese lettering is clearly visible on some of the weapons in the photos, doesn't Pakistan blame China for supporting the Taliban?
You don't expect them to blame their 'taller than mountains, deeper than ocean' friends.
 
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