Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[aliyusuf]

First of all, AZM is an umbrella project/mothership which will be responsible for Pakistan Defence Production like NGF, Loyal Wingman, UCAV, Avionics, Radars, weapon development and a lot more. Do you know the recent developments in any of programs under AZM? I am sure you had no idea about that.

From totally an independent point of view; it is just unfair & ironical to compare PAC achievements with India. I say the irony because Thunder is flying in active and operational duties since induction and even took part during Operation Swift Retort on 27th Feb, 2019 (You may remember well). Thunder has Blocks production and has its own merits alone in the world of Military Aviation. What you implied in regard to delivery for IAF is merely a brownie point to refer to as compare to performing active duties & inducted in full form.

Can you accept that what was India's participation into Tejas that you referred? Majority components are from different OEMs and even design philosophy is heavily contended by French. Do these all numbers count to the total failure of HAL/India. I don't see that like this. India learn from the progress and still developing but if you compare the homegrown Fighter's achievement between both countries, Pakistan is ahead of India given the Thunder's induction, operational duties & exported as well.

Your unawareness in regard to Pakistan's participation in Thunder program could be the reason for not knowing in detail while looking at it from an independent point of view. However, my point is not to convince you in this area since you have already decided and apparently know too much what's being said from an adversary propective.

Lest not just demean the process of progress just because it is about Pakistan and you have to oppose for the sake of it . If could search and read it for the sense of information & knowledge; you will be able to see what is being done and what was the level.

This thread is not about comparison between Pakistan & India especially since India is not even building a 5th Gen Program or to call it an achievement or even a failure to begin with. If someone really want it to be weighed with achievements & risk of failures; the one could refer to US, Russia, China, Japan, SK & Turkey in line of active 5th Gen programs either achieved or failed. The comparison validates the point when it is done between a successful program & the one being stopped/scrapped/delayed/postponed due to lot of limitations. India is not the bench mark in this regard to compare with since itself struggling to take off from the paper let alone referring the same for comparison. There is no comparison.

No more on India V/s Pakistan thing on it.

Very well put.
If I had the authority, would have awarded it a positive rating. So kindly accept my "Like" rating instead.

 

[The Eagle]

I would like to ask, what was the input from PAC side in JF 17? From what I read, it was a chinese fighter program that didnt succeed initially, but then when pakistan showed interest. China modified it and sold it off. Would be open to any sources you might offer.

I wouldn't recommend any member or this Forum alone since it may sound bias or flawed to you. But if you really are interested to know more in depth, lets begin with AVM (R) Shahid Latif who speaks from authority on this program including the sabotage attempts by the adversaries. He was the head of project back then when it becomes reality and started active flying. You will find his interviews with different sources on YouTube and then cross check with other credible sources if it does add something to you. Then by the end of your search, you can go through JF-17 Thunder Section comprising details in different threads and there you have it. Most of information/updates are linked to the credible sources and you have to work for yourself on that.

I want you to do it by yourself instead of my input or information on the program, so that an impartial approach be adopted to evaluate perception V/s ground reality.

 

[Trango Towers]

This is why you have very less information about the mentality of common Pakistanis

Sad you are emotional rather than rational. I just spent 7 years full time in Pakistan. Left when covid started. Your assumptions are typically Pakistani. All hype and no facts. Have a nice day

 

[Riz]

Sad you are emotional rather than rational. I just spent 7 years full time in Pakistan. Left when covid started. Your assumptions are typically Pakistani. All hype and no facts. Have a nice day

My cousin use to work for a UAE bases company , with heavy salary , along with free residence and food , he got an offer latter from UK and moved to London with his family, now he saving half what he was saving in UAE , after paying salary tax , house rent and Grossry bills , he often use to say although i am saving less but Alhamdullilah now future of my kids is bright ….not everyone is like you bro

 

[JamD]

Not proof of anything but AvRID just posted new jobs. Probably wouldn't be doing that if they were sizing down. Or they could be making up for talent that left. Who knows.

 

[Trango Towers]

My cousin use to work for a UAE bases company , with heavy salary , along with free residence and food , he got an offer latter from UK and moved to London with his family, now he saving half what he was saving in UAE , after paying salary tax , house rent and Grossry bills , he often use to say although i am saving less but Alhamdullilah now future of my kids is bright ….not everyone is like you bro

OK...now I understand why you are saying that.

I know a lawyers in Pakistan who earn 15 to 20 thousand dollars a month. Yes dollars. A professor from lahore who earns 8000 dollars a months. These people live the life of luxury and will never leave Pakistan. You are correct my position is different. I came to the UK as a child but in my 7 years in Pakistan I learnt its a country of opportunity but no rule of law and lots of corruption. Sadly people want security and for this reason they look to leave Pakistan. Those with money and power can use the law in their favour and get away with it

 

[Chak Bamu]

Relieved.

First follow the constitution, have transparent decision-making, establish a bit of trust. This would help grow the economy by attracting investment. Continuing with a hybrid system will keep the opacity in place and deter investors. Once the economy is in the growth mode, do not derail it by allowing generals to play politics. Long term growth would help everyone, including the armed services (Army, Airforce, Navy) and we can hope to get the toys that we want.

Azm can only succeed as a JV in the foreseeable future. Talking big while the economy tanks is not a sane thing to do.

I hope PAF goes crazy with JF-17 Block IV.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Project Azm is "officially" dead and discarded. We are now in collaboration with another country for a similar aircraft.

There is still a building at AMF with a large signpost saying AZM and people go there every day to work...

 

[TsAr]

Not proof of anything but AvRID just posted new jobs. Probably wouldn't be doing that if they were sizing down. Or they could be making up for talent that left. Who knows.
View attachment 814265

Work is in progress on the new building, machinery is being put in place......

 

[Reichmarshal]

Most of posters cutting their wrists open are basically pi$$in in the wind....... they don't have the slightest of ideas as to wt is going on.
Talk about being pessimistic when u don't know diddly squat.

PanzerKiel has put u guys in a spin from which their no recovery.
I can imagine him being just laid back with his feet on the couch cracked open a ........ n enjoying him self watching u guys fighting n killing each other over somthing frankly no one kniws the reality n status off

 

[NA71]

Most of posters cutting their wrists open are basically pi$$in in the wind....... they don't have the slightest of ideas as to wt is going on.
Talk about being pessimistic when u don't know diddly squat.

PanzerKiel has put u guys in a spin from which their no recovery.
I can imagine him being just laid back with his feet on the couch cracked open a ........ n enjoying him self watching u guys fighting n killing each other over somthing frankly no one kniws the reality n status off

great post....yes @PanzerKiel post was an strategic move and we all are running in that direction .....and probably some 500 pages will be covered ...suddenly PanzerKiel will post " mein tu mazaq kiya tha"

an indian king also joined and started posting his recommendations ..... wowwww

 

[PanzerKiel]

PanzerKiel will post " mein tu mazaq kiya tha"

I have yet to say that in the last 15 years on PDF.

 

[NA71]

the near future course of developments, in the eyes of Kaiser Tufail as

Author, analyst, and former air force pilot Kaiser Tufail suggested in 2018 that Turkey and Pakistan could build an interim jet “rather than jumping straight to a full-capability fifth generation fighter.”

He even suggested that cooperation “could well take the shape of a ‘Block-4’ JF-17 Thunder developed by Turkey and Pakistan.”

Will Turkey Seek Chinese Or Korean Fighters If F-16 Request Is Denied?

If Turkey continually refuses to compromise with the U.S. and NATO on the S-400, its F-16 fleet will inevitably suffer the consequences.

www.forbes.com

 

[TheSolution]

This is a country of 200 million plus, a few thousand leaving is not even a drop in a bucket.

Be patent n relax rather than going crazy over hearsay

Not really, depends who is leaving

Not everyone has the same value towards the country

 

[dBSPL]

the near future course of developments, in the eyes of Kaiser Tufail as

Author, analyst, and former air force pilot Kaiser Tufail suggested in 2018 that Turkey and Pakistan could build an interim jet “rather than jumping straight to a full-capability fifth generation fighter.”

He even suggested that cooperation “could well take the shape of a ‘Block-4’ JF-17 Thunder developed by Turkey and Pakistan.”

Will Turkey Seek Chinese Or Korean Fighters If F-16 Request Is Denied?

If Turkey continually refuses to compromise with the U.S. and NATO on the S-400, its F-16 fleet will inevitably suffer the consequences.

www.forbes.com

If the decision is made to produce a combat variant for Hürjet, it will have all the capabilities of the JF-17. Hürjet prototypes are currently in production. The assembly activities of the first ready-to-fly aircraft will be completed in a few months. The aircraft will make its maiden flight in the first quarter of 2023 (March 18), and deliveries to the air force will begin from 2025.

Turkiye and Pakistan's starting a new project over the JF-17 infrastructure may be possible with the coordination and permission of China. Aside from dozens of technical difficulties for TuAF, what mentioned mean that a minimum period of 6-8 years. TuAF's medium and long-term plans are already clear. The current discussion is about stop-gap/filler solutions. Here, too, the most expected solution is to increase the current F-16 fleet to the B70/72 level.

What happens if the most logical path is blocked? A- Turkiye runs its own F-16 modernization program without permission, ignoring license agreements. B- Hurjet could be reconfigured with a ready-made engine with higher thrust, possibly of Ukrainian origin, giving priority to the combat variant. C- looks for an EF or another similiar aircraft (possibly second hand) in that permissions given to can use its own missiles and munitions at the maximum level. In this option, Pakistan's JF-17 can be opened to Turkish avionics and supplied in this way. However, there is no technical infrastructure in TuAF, especially the JF-17 engine. If such an investment will to be made, the Hurjet-Ukrainian engine would come to the fore. D- The USA can gives the green light for TR's F-35's due to the Ukraine crisis, and may be TAF would take 2-3 squadrons of F-35. This is already the old plan to supply the F-35 and modernize the F-16 squadrons. And then,gradual decommissioning of F-16s and commissioning of the MMU in the 2030s.

I think the most logical way at the moment would be to bring up the Hürjet combatant variant immediatly. Yes, it can be a painful process. In fact, some risk factors will be dangerous in the very short term, but they will create huge gains in the long run.