Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[NA71]

Why would China give the ToT of their latest and most capable combat aircraft?

Sounds like wishful thinking at best.

China is providing whatever we are demanding ....it is something best of China's interest their bigger objectives playing here....

Lots of happening behind the stage ....very fast

 

[Gripen9]

TFX??

J-31/35 is more realistic

Pakistan's number 1 export: Talent
Pakistan's number 1 import: Remittances
lol

Sad reality

 

[Ali_Baba]

Inevitable given the lack of experience in designing planes of any type in Pakistan to all of a sudden trying to build a 5th Gen plane. It was going to fail - but it was a matter of time. Better to realise early on and stop it.

Pakistan should focus on designing from ground up in Pakistan, the replacement of the Mushshak platform?
Then work its way to replacing the K8 ? And then maybe design a LIFT ?

And - with each iteration build the ecosystem required to build a 5th/6th Gen plane in Pakistan. It is a progressive journey. Maybe PAF realised eventually that "designing a military jet plane" is quite different from manufacturing a military jet plane.

 

[PakFactor]

On one hand I am skeptical that the FGFA program has been killed because the deputation (that I told you about) has more than a year of its mission remaining so it would be weird to kill local Azm while the deputation hasn't even decided.

On the other hand I sort of feel this is inevitable considering our financial and technical capacity.

Something fun:
View attachment 814150
This could mean the guy got promoted out and someone else replaced him
OR
The post doesn't exist anymore (and the guy got promoted out)
OR
Just a mistake on LinkedIn.

Pakistan's number 1 export: Talent
Pakistan's number 1 import: Remittances
lol

Brother you might remember several months back you, another member and I were discussing this and said a lot of people will leave and ship out --
This is the beginning. It's a sad reality. There will be another wave of exodus out of the country soon -- I have a client whose risk management I do, and there brining a lot of Pakistanis on board to the states (they deal with drones, and electronics).

We have officers who try to run basically a business they have no understanding of, and this is what you get, incompetence top - down.

 

[NA71]

Inevitable given the lack of experience in designing planes of any type in Pakistan to all of a sudden trying to build a 5th Gen plane. It was going to fail - but it was a matter of time. Better to realise early on and stop it.

Pakistan should focus on designing from ground up in Pakistan, the replacement of the Mushshak platform?
Then work its way to replacing the K8 ? And then maybe design a LIFT ?

And - with each iteration build the ecosystem required to build a 5th/6th Gen plane in Pakistan. It is a progressive journey. Maybe PAF realised eventually that "designing a military jet plane" is quite different from manufacturing a military jet plane.

Change of mind is due to tight money other reasons are secondary. Projects like AZM demands uninterrupted flow of money.

 

[GriffinsRule]

@The Eagle so the busy bees are not busy anymore

No they were busy mating a single BVR to an antiquated jet. Pathetic really

 

[Big_bud]

Semiconductors is too high to aim right now. Even a full stealth AC was too high. IMO, Pakistan should focus on developing capacity for local gas turbine production. They have both civilian and military applications.

A 50 KN turbojet could be and achievable first step. Two could be combined for use in a JF-17 sized AC.....85% of which could be made in Pakistan. It would hedge us from being completely dependent on aerospace imports.

Yes... this is what I have been talking about on this forum lately! Aim low, achiever even lower - is our national motto! The "practical" approach that has been killing Pakistan for decades now! We need someone crazy and competent, a doer, a motivated person. Just like Imran Khan was a crazy hot headed person who broke the status quo, we need a similar air chief and project director for this task. JF17 is already a result of this "practical" thinking. We know its limitations. World is moving fast, its running ahead without making any compromises. We need a 2045 jet for 2045. Not a 90s jet for 2045. Otherwise it would be another mirage for us in the 2050s!

 

[Big_bud]

Brother you might remember several months back you, another member and I were discussing this and said a lot of people will leave and ship out --
This is the beginning. It's a sad reality. There will be another wave of exodus out of the country soon -- I have a client whose risk management I do, and there brining a lot of Pakistanis on board to the states (they deal with drones, and electronics).

We have officers who try to run basically a business they have no understanding of, and this is what you get, incompetence top - down.

These guys leaving Pakistan need to group up and meet the PM directly. Ask for a special desk to be made under PM house to overview such flagship projects. IK should take up this project under his own command. Bring resources from world over + PAF + civilians and remove the red tapes/ silly procedural issues/ give the team some creative space. Specially remove non technical PAF leadership out of the way! A pilot is not an engineer, he is not a project manager, he is not a specialist. Any one can drive a car, doesn't mean anyone can build one too. The current PAF chief doesn't look that smart and sharp as someone like Sohail Aman did. I never had high hopes from him considering his body language. Sohail Aman was bright and brilliant. He was a visionary leader. This guy doesn't look at par to me, I was hoping for someone with more energy and zest!

 

[CrazyZ]

Yes... this is what I have been talking about on this forum lately! Aim low, achiever even lower - is our national motto! The "practical" approach that has been killing Pakistan for decades now! We need someone crazy and competent, a doer, a motivated person. Just like Imran Khan was a crazy hot headed person who broke the status quo, we need a similar air chief and project director for this task. JF17 is already a result of this "practical" thinking. We know its limitations. World is moving fast, its running ahead without making any compromises. We need a 2045 jet for 2045. Not a 90s jet for 2045. Otherwise it would be another mirage for us in the 2050s!

JF-17 under promised and over delivered. You make it sound like designing and building advanced stealth combat AC is as easy as making a vegemite sandwich. Development always starts at the bottom.....and requires gains to be reinvested over decades. There are no short cuts. Main problem with Pakistan has been the lack of reinvesting gains over time. JF-17 actually is one of the few projects that have bucked this tendency.

 

[tphuang]

If Pakistan has the money and will, I'm sure China is willing to export FC-31s to Pakistan by around early 2030s. China is currently projecting to introduce 6th generation aircraft by 2035. I don't see any obstacles for Chinese export to Pakistan. Especially if India gets its acts together and actually finds 5th gen aircraft somewhere.

I don't quite understand why Pakistan needs to wait until 2045.

 

[PakFactor]

These guys leaving Pakistan need to group up and meet the PM directly. Ask for a special desk to be made under PM house to overview such flagship projects. IK should take up this project under his own command. Bring resources from world over + PAF + civilians and remove the red tapes/ silly procedural issues/ give the team some creative space. Specially remove non technical PAF leadership out of the way! A pilot is not an engineer, he is not a project manager, he is not a specialist. Any one can drive a car, doesn't mean anyone can build one too. The current PAF chief doesn't look that smart and sharp as someone like Sohail Aman did. I never had high hopes from him considering his body language. Sohail Aman was bright and brilliant. He was a visionary leader. This guy doesn't look at par to me, I was hoping for someone with more energy and zest!

Simple reason that wouldn't work is the mentality of the Pakistani people and leadership. Even if IK starts who's to know he'll continue, the next guy will come in stop it or slap his name on it, so on and so forth, we don't have a continuity policy in place. We lack project managers down to the talent pool; we've never been able to build a foundation and grow from there. Just simply look at the Agosta submarine, the Navy couldn't maintain a foundation and develop it long-term.

 

[Riz]

Pakistan's number 1 export: Talent
Pakistan's number 1 import: Remittances
lol

Talent dont wana live in Pakistan even you pay them heavy salaries as compared to European standard , hum to London he jain gay bhai goron k dais

 

[Zarvan]

Inevitable given the lack of experience in designing planes of any type in Pakistan to all of a sudden trying to build a 5th Gen plane. It was going to fail - but it was a matter of time. Better to realise early on and stop it.

Pakistan should focus on designing from ground up in Pakistan, the replacement of the Mushshak platform?
Then work its way to replacing the K8 ? And then maybe design a LIFT ?

And - with each iteration build the ecosystem required to build a 5th/6th Gen plane in Pakistan. It is a progressive journey. Maybe PAF realised eventually that "designing a military jet plane" is quite different from manufacturing a military jet plane.

Unfortunately we don't have that much time let. We have to go big and go big now. It's suicidal to stop this program. Pakistan has years long history of falling out with allies and loosing partners. So you better make the best things in your own country other wise in war it would hurt you really bad.

 

[FuturePAF]

The team, the group of officers, once they went out, no one took up this project to continue as it should have been,

Your right. Human capital can never be discounted, especially not in senior management and in engineering.

 

[Trango Towers]

Talent dont wana live in Pakistan even you pay them heavy salaries as compared to European standard , hum to London he jain gay bhai goron k dais

Not true...those that earn good don't leave Pakistan.