Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[PakFactor]

I'm humbled. However, What exactly is being discussed? I seem to have missed alot in the last tens of pages. Can you bring me up to speed, please?

Meanwhile, I might be ables find something in this file.

View attachment 658600

Im not understanding what your trying to get at with this photo? Is this for Block 3 or an older photo.

 

[Armchair]

tbh I'd need to read up/learn on radar re: detecting 5-gen fighters before commenting.

@Armchair

I think the KFX C501 seems to represent much of what you're thinking about re: AZM (i.e., being a single-engine medium-weight fighter with WS-10). IIRC the C501's design team had envisioned iterating on the T-50/FA-50 than starting completely from scratch. If you're right, this is what AZM would look like.

@JamD You might find this interesting all the same. Based on what you know, what would Pakistan need to master in-house to pull-off a design like the above if it relied on a foreign engine and major design partner.

Beautiful design and interesting but was thinking more stealth than this... perhaps an ability to carry 2 PL-15s internally. A lot is possible. Remember, if it looked like this, it would fail Chak Bamu's "visibly clean sheet design".

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/68/a8/fd/68a8fda005ba91985ef5301714c32913.jpg

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Beautiful design and interesting but was thinking more stealth than this... perhaps an ability to carry 2 PL-15s internally. A lot is possible. Remember, if it looked like this, it would fail Chak Bamu's "visibly clean sheet design".

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/68/a8/fd/68a8fda005ba91985ef5301714c32913.jpg

@LKJ86 You have 4 years, go.

 

[Armchair]

I'm kind of advocating taking the massive advance that Block 3 has achieved (AESA, EW, DAS, sensor fusion, FBL) and putting it in a new physical airframe. this airframe being stealthier and with greater growth potential, and being based on China's most mature and mass produced fighter engine.

 

[SQ8]

@LKJ86 You have 4 years, go.

Single vertical tail wont work well for stealth - a flat plate sticking out radiates easy.

 

[The Eagle]

Single vertical tail wont work well for stealth - a flat plate sticking out radiates easy.

Chief! How do you support YF-23 kind approach as compare to canted vertical tails?

 

[Armchair]

Single vertical tail wont work well for stealth - a flat plate sticking out radiates easy.

I think single tail is possible (without having done any RCS studies of it) if the aim of the stealth is only frontal stealth to an ark of 70 degrees off the nose. The vertical tail means side stealth will be compromised.

Almost all stealth aircraft are unstealthy from the top quadrant. Many are unstealthy from the rear. And we are not even going into long wavelength radars.

 

[Armchair]

Something else that I was thinking about was - what would happen if someone developed a fighter radar that is in between the traditional x band frequencies and the S band frequency? A longer wavelength X band or a shorter wavelength S band?

Could it potentially be good enough to:

1. Cue active homing BVR missiles
2. Have a longer wavelength degrading stealth and enemy EW

Would be interesting if there was some kind of a study on this.
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...741122712/1-Typical-radar-frequency-bands.png

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Is it feasible to do a twin v-tail by building the vertical stabilizers with primarily composites? That should help alleviate any issues re: added weight, no?

Re: an internal payload. Why stick to trying to stick it within the fuselage? How about a conformal carriage that can stick to the fuselage?

 

[Armchair]

Is it feasible to do a twin v-tail by building the vertical stabilizers with primarily composites? That should help alleviate any issues re: added weight, no?

Re: an internal payload. Why stick to trying to stick it within the fuselage? How about a conformal carriage that can stick to the fuselage?

View attachment 659157

Yes, totally awesome idea - conformal carriage. I was writing about this and also I've been writing about semi-conformal carriage.

You could have two BVRs in conformal "internal bay" and more semi-conformal, and if you want even more, just use clip on pylons as messiach once suggested.

 

[Armchair]

There is also di-electric material that is invisible to radar. Famously wooden airframe of the Mosquito in WW2 and in modern times, there are certain plastics and composites that are dielectric. (I hope I have the right term, haven't used that term in a while. Originally, I wanted Azm to be a pure delta with a tiny dielectric canard up front like the Eurofighter and twin F-23 style v tails)

 

[Armchair]

"Dielectric composite materials are more transparent to radar, whereas electrically conductive materials such as metals and carbon fibers reflect electromagnetic energy incident on the material's surface."

 

[LKJ86]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1288801396259729410

 

[Chak Bamu]

Expect some leaks after 14th of August - none from me though.

@Armchair please do not read too much into my posts. Though I have some contacts, I never use them to get any classified information. If I do come across any information, I keep it to myself. I have not seen a wind-tunnel model. I am not related to project Azm.

 

[SQ8]

I think single tail is possible (without having done any RCS studies of it) if the aim of the stealth is only frontal stealth to an ark of 70 degrees off the nose. The vertical tail means side stealth will be compromised.

Almost all stealth aircraft are unstealthy from the top quadrant. Many are unstealthy from the rear. And we are not even going into long wavelength radars.

Then the designs offers very little advantages versus the requirements.
One can say that the KFX may be aiming for frontal stealth only but when you consider its threat matrix(long rang over China, NK with antiquated systems or Japan over long sea ranges) it is different to ours where we have tens of sensors looking our way and over a very short distance.